Our Glorious Athletic Director

[dookie blaylock]

i'd love to know where you geniuses would put a stadium, even if we had the money for it. tropical park is the only place that solves the distance from campus issue along with having the infrastructure to handle stadium traffic, but you'd have to somehow pry it out of the city's hands first. and before some ****** says the land that we sold by the zoo would have worked, that land is having enough trouble getting a **** walmart put on it because of environmental reasons.

"Anything difficult is not worth doing."

- db305

"i have no intelligent answer, so i'll be a snarky **** instead."

-consigliere

i'd like to hear one reasonable/feasible solution to the problem.

My response displays the stupidity of your argument. Nobody thinks this would be easy. We expect a lot of hard work.

The zoo would have worked. Tropical park would work. It depends on the school getting serious enough to get it done and LEADING. We had a President that had enough pull and persuasion to get this done. We never tired (even when we owned the land), we never wanted it at relevant levels.

You want more land....start a feasibility study because our AD ain't doing chit.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18766259/SW-232-Street-SW-112-Avenue-Miami-FL/

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18712507/SW-204th-Avenue-and-SW-208th-Street-Miami-FL/

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18689413/miami-dade-Miami-FL/

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18455975/3565-NW-36-ST-Miami-FL/

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18413378/6950-NW-7-Street-Miami-FL/

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18396836/7800-SW-196-Cutler-Bay-FL/

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18361087/SW-157-Ave-and-SW-127-Street-Miami-FL/

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18341583/10001-SW-240th-STREET-Miami-FL/

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18230534/19500-South-Dixie-Highway-Miami-FL/

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18111617/136th-St-SW-157th-Ave-Miami-FL/

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18081918/2400-SW-157th-Ave-Miami-FL/

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18081945/Krome-Ave-SW-47th-St-Miami-FL/

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/17679611/SW-133rd-Ave-232nd-St-Miami-FL/

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/17144157/NW-14th-ST-and-NW-122th-AVE-Miami-FL/

first of all, sunlife and its parking lots sit on 160 acres. say we wanted to reduce everything down by 1/3, that gives us about 106 acres (give or take) to fit our stadium site. if the stadium isn't close to a highway, we would have to get the state to build a stretch in order to handle stadium traffic. in 2008, highway construction costs were $2.4-6.9 million/lane/mile. so if you go with the median of $4.65 million/lane/mile and build a minimalist 4-lane highway (2 lanes each way), that's $18.6 million/mile of road that the state of florida has to fund, not including having to purchase the properties or the demolition costs needed to make the roads. let's go down your list of proposed properties:

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18766259/SW-232-Street-SW-112-Avenue-Miami-FL/
80 acres and 17 miles from campus. could be viable. size could work in a pinch, good location off of the 821. however, it solves no distance issues.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18712507/SW-204th-Avenue-and-SW-208th-Street-Miami-FL/
13 acres (lol) and 24 miles from campus. solves no issues with distance and would require building at least 10 miles of highway to handle traffic (~$186 million from the state to build highway).

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18689413/miami-dade-Miami-FL/
all of the properties on this link add up to 100 acres, but they're spread around miami-dade and are not a single plot of land.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18455975/3565-NW-36-ST-Miami-FL/
10 acres. half of a stadium wouldn't fit on the land.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18413378/6950-NW-7-Street-Miami-FL/
7 acres on an irregularly-shaped piece of land. stadium won't fit.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18396836/7800-SW-196-Cutler-Bay-FL/
38 acres (properties around it could conceivably be purchased so i won't discount property space) but would require building a 4 mile stretch of highway over/through a densely-populated area (~$74.4 million from state to build highway). google directions from that property to the nearest highway. not a chance.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18361087/SW-157-Ave-and-SW-127-Street-Miami-FL/
10 acres (same exception for space as the cutler bay area since it's all fields around it). 13 miles from campus but would also require building a 4 mile stretch of highway over/through a densely-populated area (~$74.4 million from state to build highway). refer to problem with cutler bay.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18341583/10001-SW-240th-STREET-Miami-FL/
40 acres. 26 miles away from campus. solves nothing.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18230534/19500-South-Dixie-Highway-Miami-FL/
10 acres surrounded by businesses and residential property. stadium won't fit. if you're talking about the plot that sits slightly to the northwest of the address in the link, fiu's stadium would barely squeeze into that space. won't work.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18111617/136th-St-SW-157th-Ave-Miami-FL/
same as the other property that you listed next to tamiami airport.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18081918/2400-SW-157th-Ave-Miami-FL/
10 acres (same exception for space as the cutler bay area since it's all fields to the north and west). 11 miles from campus. would also require building a 5-6 mile stretch of highway over/through a densely-populated area (~$102.3 million from state to build highway). refer to problem with cutler bay.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18081945/Krome-Ave-SW-47th-St-Miami-FL/
plenty of land around it, so space is not an issue. but, it's 16.3 miles from campus, 9 miles from the nearest highway. solves no problems of distance.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/17679611/SW-133rd-Ave-232nd-St-Miami-FL/
35 acres on 2 plots. won't fit.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/17144157/NW-14th-ST-and-NW-122th-AVE-Miami-FL/
10 acres with room to expand if surrounding properties are purchased. could be viable but is still 14 miles from campus, so distance issues are not solved. on the end of the 836 so no issues with the highway.

so there's a rundown of the properties that you posted. out of 14 properties, you've given 2 potentially viable options: 1 that might work as-is, but is 17 miles from campus, and another that would require purchasing 10 times more land and is 14 miles from campus. so, again, please give a feasible solution that solves the problems of distance, infrastructure, and size.

 

[CaneInHeelCountry]

Good post, db305. It's nice to bring some facts to the table. Most folks have no idea what it would take for UM to build a stadium elsewhere.

 

[Consigliere]

Why would I take a stab at your hypothetical? Your hypothetical is nonsense. What if the queen had balls? Then she'd be the king. Another nonsensical hypothetical. So a guy is going to make a $350 million investment and then unload it and demolish it any time soon? SLS has not really been touched since it opened in 1987 and it's a dual use facility. That's 27 years. But I'll play your game, if the stadium is going to be demolished in 25 years from now, then a new stadium will replace it. The question is whether it will be privately funded like Joe Robbie did or funded via bonds publicly.

Wow. Okay new hypo since you're incapable of answering the other one.

The year is 20XX and we have 8 years on our lease. Ross knows that we have no other options (like in the past). Being a smart negotiator and unsympathetic to our needs, he decides to make it extremely unfavorable to use No Life (during negotiations). We have 8 years to plan an attack.

What do we do? Do we disband the football program?

 

[Consigliere]

DB305,

First, that was after a 3 minute search and no real resources to research land available in Florida.

Second, if No Life is 160 Acres (no idea if true) and we need a stadium that is 60% of the size (people)...wouldn't that mean we would require a plot of land much less then a 1/3 of No Life. Remember 6-8000 of the 45,000 stadium would be students and would likely not drive to the games (I never did). Also the stadium could provide transportation from the campus as well (like they do now). My guess is we would need a plot of land at most 50% the size of No Life.

Side note: Where did you get the 160 Acre number?

Third, No LIfe is 21 miles from the campus. It isn't the distance to campus people are complaining about it is how terrible No Life is for our school. So the plots of land that do work (size wise) above are also similar distances (if not shorter) as No Life. Again this isn't a problem since we may never be closer to the school (cough cough cough Tropical Park).

Finally, I'm no city planner. I'm no architect or engineer. Are you? I spent a few minutes looking at vacant land online and found those quickly. One of them is actually pretty darn good and available IMO and you agreed. The problem is no one that matters is actually looking into these situations. The problem is this is going to require a lot of work which is something the admin never wants to do. I totally acknowledge that this will be extremely difficult but having the right person in charge (not DS) and AD (not Blake) would be a great start. I'm still waiting for a feasibility study but our AD is waiting as well (for people to bring it to him).

Be honest, do you think this is totally impossible or do you think it just requires a ton of focus, planning and vision to get it done?

 

[dookie blaylock]

DB305,

First, that was after a 3 minute search and no real resources to research land available in Florida.

Second, if No Life is 160 Acres (no idea if true) and we need a stadium that is 60% of the size (people)...wouldn't that mean we would require a plot of land much less then a 1/3 of No Life. Remember 6-8000 of the 45,000 stadium would be students and would likely not drive to the games (I never did). Also the stadium could provide transportation from the campus as well (like they do now). My guess is we would need a plot of land at most 50% the size of No Life.

Side note: Where did you get the 160 Acre number?

Third, No LIfe is 21 miles from the campus. It isn't the distance to campus people are complaining about it is how terrible No Life is for our school. So the plots of land that do work (size wise) above are also similar distances (if not shorter) as No Life. Again this isn't a problem since we may never be closer to the school (cough cough cough Tropical Park).

Finally, I'm no city planner. I'm no architect or engineer. Are you? I spent a few minutes looking at vacant land online and found those quickly. One of them is actually pretty darn good and available IMO and you agreed. The problem is no one that matters is actually looking into these situations. The problem is this is going to require a lot of work which is something the admin never wants to do. I'm still waiting for a feasibility study but our AD is waiting as well (for people to bring it to him).

first, i want to point out that i want our own stadium. we need it, and we need it to be close. tropical park is what i want more than anything else because it gives us the space, proximity to campus, and infrastructure off of the 826. i got the 160 acre figure from the sun life stadium website, so even if we went 50%, that requires 80 acres of land. the issue here is that stadium structure sizes are somewhat static and generally sit on 12-25 acres of land, depending on the layout. if you call it a 17 acre footprint for us, that leaves us at 63 acres for parking, which is less than half of what sun life has (140 acres). proportionally, it's not sound because it gives us 45% of sun life's parking, with 60% of its capacity. 100 acres is safe enough to accommodate a capacity game.

the reason that i put all of these facts out is because a project in my master's program at um was a feasibility study on building a new stadium for the school. we found that the plots of land that have the space and that we could afford would cost the state astronomical amounts for new road construction and would require displacing businesses and homes. it pretty much came down to 2 options: stay at sun life, or tropical park. you are correct in saying that it will take a lot of work, because raising the funds isn't as hard as prying that park from miami-dade.

i wouldn't go as far as to say that the project is impossible because you never know what could happen in regards to tropical park, but that is the only viable site that we found that would satisfy our needs.

 

[Consigliere]

DB305,

First, that was after a 3 minute search and no real resources to research land available in Florida.

Second, if No Life is 160 Acres (no idea if true) and we need a stadium that is 60% of the size (people)...wouldn't that mean we would require a plot of land much less then a 1/3 of No Life. Remember 6-8000 of the 45,000 stadium would be students and would likely not drive to the games (I never did). Also the stadium could provide transportation from the campus as well (like they do now). My guess is we would need a plot of land at most 50% the size of No Life.

Side note: Where did you get the 160 Acre number?

Third, No LIfe is 21 miles from the campus. It isn't the distance to campus people are complaining about it is how terrible No Life is for our school. So the plots of land that do work (size wise) above are also similar distances (if not shorter) as No Life. Again this isn't a problem since we may never be closer to the school (cough cough cough Tropical Park).

Finally, I'm no city planner. I'm no architect or engineer. Are you? I spent a few minutes looking at vacant land online and found those quickly. One of them is actually pretty darn good and available IMO and you agreed. The problem is no one that matters is actually looking into these situations. The problem is this is going to require a lot of work which is something the admin never wants to do. I'm still waiting for a feasibility study but our AD is waiting as well (for people to bring it to him).

first, i want to point out that i want our own stadium. we need it, and we need it to be close. tropical park is what i want more than anything else because it gives us the space, proximity to campus, and infrastructure off of the 826. i got the 160 acre figure from the sun life stadium website, so even if we went 50%, that requires 80 acres of land. the issue here is that stadium structure sizes are somewhat static and generally sit on 12-25 acres of land, depending on the layout. if you call it a 17 acre footprint for us, that leaves us at 63 acres for parking, which is less than half of what sun life has (140 acres). proportionally, it's not sound because it gives us 45% of sun life's parking, with 60% of its capacity. 100 acres is safe enough to accommodate a capacity game.

the reason that i put all of these facts out is because a project in my master's program at um was a feasibility study on building a new stadium for the school. we found that the plots of land that have the space and that we could afford would cost the state astronomical amounts for new road construction and would require displacing businesses and homes. it pretty much came down to 2 options: stay at sun life, or tropical park. you are correct in saying that it will take a lot of work, because raising the funds isn't as hard as prying that park from miami-dade.

i wouldn't go as far as to say that the project is impossible because you never know what could happen in regards to tropical park, but that is the only viable site that we found that would satisfy our needs.

Thank you for sharing, seriously. I like Tropical Park as well (not sure how much it changed from my tenure).

In your study what did you think the project would cost in total?

 

[dookie blaylock]

i don't remember exact figures because this was 3 years ago, but tropical park would be the cost of the land, the cost of stadium construction, and somewhere around $14-20 million from the state to build direct on/off ramps to the stadium site off of the 826 to prevent bird and miller from clogging up. baylor's new stadium cost $266 million to build. it seats just under 45k and is probably the closest thing to what we need that we can judge costs from. i don't know what the construction cost index is for miami compared to waco, but it's definitely more expensive. also tropical park would come at extortion prices because the city has no reason to sell the land and we have no leverage to get it.

the other sites past the hammocks on the west side of the city were the cost of land, stadium construction costs, $125-175 million from the state alone to construct/expand new roads, and we actually ended up losing count of the property values of what would need to be demolished in order to widen the roads enough (it was in the hundreds of millions). that's all discounting the inevitable lawsuits from displaced businesses and homes if the state were to somehow claim eminent domain over those properties for highway road construction, which would also be fought tooth and nail by the city to begin with.

the biggest problem that we have isn't the fundraising, it's the politics. the lands out west would require the state to justify spending tons of money to displace homes and businesses as well as build roads to a stadium that would suit our needs, but isn't big enough to be a premier venue for shows/events. the potential for revenue at a site on the remote outskirts of the city isn't as high as it is at the existing stadium (sun life). tropical park is municipal and buying city land like that, especially that much prime property in the middle of an urban area, is a battle in itself. like i said, it's not impossible, but you'd have to find the right person to lobby to the right politicians, have the right timing, and have the business plan to make it a profitable venture.

 

[cowboycane]

i don't remember exact figures because this was 3 years ago, but tropical park would be the cost of the land, the cost of stadium construction, and somewhere around $14-20 million from the state to build direct on/off ramps to the stadium site off of the 826 to prevent bird and miller from clogging up.

the other sites past the hammocks on the west side of the city were the cost of land, stadium construction costs, $125-175 million from the state alone to construct/expand new roads, and we actually ended up losing count of the property values of that would need to be demolished in order to widen the roads enough (it was in the hundreds of millions). that's all discounting the inevitable lawsuits from displaced businesses and homes if the state were to somehow claim eminent domain over those properties for highway road construction, which would also be fought tooth and nail by the city to begin with.

the biggest problem that we have isn't the fundraising, it's the politics. the lands out west would require the state to justify spending tons of money to displace homes and businesses as well as build roads to a stadium that would suit our needs, but isn't big enough to be a premier venue for shows/events. the potential for revenue at a site on the remote outskirts of the city isn't as high as it is at the existing stadium (sun life). tropical park is municipal and buying city land like that, especially that much prime property in the middle of an urban area, is a battle in itself. like i said, it's not impossible, but you'd have to find the right person to lobby to the right politicians, have the right timing, and have the business plan to make it a profitable venture.

So what you're saying is, if we start a Truth.org survey this will all sort itself out?

 

[dookie blaylock]

i don't remember exact figures because this was 3 years ago, but tropical park would be the cost of the land, the cost of stadium construction, and somewhere around $14-20 million from the state to build direct on/off ramps to the stadium site off of the 826 to prevent bird and miller from clogging up.

the other sites past the hammocks on the west side of the city were the cost of land, stadium construction costs, $125-175 million from the state alone to construct/expand new roads, and we actually ended up losing count of the property values of that would need to be demolished in order to widen the roads enough (it was in the hundreds of millions). that's all discounting the inevitable lawsuits from displaced businesses and homes if the state were to somehow claim eminent domain over those properties for highway road construction, which would also be fought tooth and nail by the city to begin with.

the biggest problem that we have isn't the fundraising, it's the politics. the lands out west would require the state to justify spending tons of money to displace homes and businesses as well as build roads to a stadium that would suit our needs, but isn't big enough to be a premier venue for shows/events. the potential for revenue at a site on the remote outskirts of the city isn't as high as it is at the existing stadium (sun life). tropical park is municipal and buying city land like that, especially that much prime property in the middle of an urban area, is a battle in itself. like i said, it's not impossible, but you'd have to find the right person to lobby to the right politicians, have the right timing, and have the business plan to make it a profitable venture.

So what you're saying is, if we start a Truth.org survey this will all sort itself out?

we'd be better off finding some compromising pictures of the mayor and county supervisors to use as extortion fuel.

 

[String911]

Hypothetical situation so please stay with me for a moment.

The year is 20XX and we have 8 years left on our current lease at No Life. Stephen Ross decides to move the Dolphins out of South Florida and decides to destroy the stadium and build condos in 8 years from 20XX. What should UM do? Should UM end the football program?

Anyone?

The Dolphins aren't leaving Miami. The NFL wants that market.

It is a hypothetical buddy.

In your hypothetical, we would eventually raise the capital to build a stadium...somewhere...off campus. Might have to use FIU's stadium to pinch-hit while we raise and build, but it would happen out of necessity. "Why doesn't it happen now then?" will probably be the next question. 1. We don't have to. We've got a pretty good gig now, financially...better than the OB. 2. Buying out of the lease isn't much of an option, and without somewhere to go, there is no sense in, and no inclination to, discuss a settlement with Ross. But if he announces he's leaving, we're off that hook.

 

[MIA42178]

Not just a stadium issue. This eunuch sucks dck tip to sack.

Examples. Needed coach L to beg for job.
Extends Morris prior to post season
Hasn't fired Gorlden.

Complete incompetent Dck bag

 

[String911]

Our student attendance, by the way, is outstanding. That's the last of our problems. I remember Freet putting out something last year about being in the top 5 in the nation, on a percentage of student enrollment,

 

[TheU1984]

Db305, great posts. Very interesting.

 

[String911]

db305, worst case scenario with regard to parking...we could build parking garages on the land to vertically stack cars if the plot of land was borderline for our needs, right? I mean, it sucks balls trying to get out of them, but...

 

[dookie blaylock]

db305, worst case scenario with regard to parking...we could build parking garages on the land to vertically stack cars if the plot of land was borderline for our needs, right? I mean, it sucks balls trying to get out of them, but...

we actually discussed that too. from a purely utilitarian perspective, yes, it could be done on a fraction of the land. our conclusion on that was that it would make attendance suffer because you've effectively eliminated tailgating.

at least for me, if i had to choose between getting our own stadium, but not being allowed to tailgate or staying at sunlife and being able to, i'd be kissing the ground at sun life.

 

[tokengator]

The upgrades to SunLife will make it a first rate stadium.

And by first rate, you mean boring as ****, seats miles away from the field & virtually no home field advantage.

At least it will look cool on photoshop.

The stadium is perfect for an NFL team hosting super bowls. I don't remember being an NFL team hosting super bowls.

Let me simplify this for you.....It is WHAT drove the renovation plans for SunLife Stadium. Have you even looked at the plans which are sorely needed to modernize the stadium or are you just pining for something that is not going to happen? This stadium issue have been going on for what 7 to 8 decades....LoL.

The stadium will be improved but it won't be first rate. The biggest issue, distance from the field, will not change for 95% of the seats. They are taking off several thousand seats from the top and adding them to the bottom. It doesn't fix the distance issue for stadium. As a dolphins fan I would have much rather they knocked it down and started over, obviously I have no say and it's easy spending other people's money...but this is a half billion dollar bandaid to appease Goodell because it rained for part of a superbowl. The stadium is still going to be a very vanilla place to watch a game.

 

[String911]

db305, worst case scenario with regard to parking...we could build parking garages on the land to vertically stack cars if the plot of land was borderline for our needs, right? I mean, it sucks balls trying to get out of them, but...

we actually discussed that too. from a purely utilitarian perspective, yes, it could be done on a fraction of the land. our conclusion on that was that it would make attendance suffer because you've effectively eliminated tailgating.

Well, I was kinda talking about having multiple smaller garages out in the corners of the property with normal parking in the rest. Something that really wouldn't have to be utilized except for capacity games. I have seen people tailgate in parking garages though, both at Doak and at Soldier Field for the ND game. Not sure how safe/smart it was, but hey...

 

[dookie blaylock]

db305, worst case scenario with regard to parking...we could build parking garages on the land to vertically stack cars if the plot of land was borderline for our needs, right? I mean, it sucks balls trying to get out of them, but...

we actually discussed that too. from a purely utilitarian perspective, yes, it could be done on a fraction of the land. our conclusion on that was that it would make attendance suffer because you've effectively eliminated tailgating.

Well, I was kinda talking about having multiple smaller garages out in the corners of the property with normal parking in the rest. Something that really wouldn't have to be utilized except for capacity games. I have seen people tailgate in parking garages though, both at Doak and at Soldier Field for the ND game. Not sure how safe/smart it was, but hey...

i could see that happening. i'd be ok with it if we had no other choice, but it's not ideal. plus grilling in a parking garage sucks and is pretty unsafe, not to mention annoying as **** if you're not on the top floor.

 

[MGreen26]

Did you explore this? Don't buy the tropical park land. Build the stadium and have a 99yr lease at 1$ a year. The city/county would not say no to that. The school would also agree to let the city/county use the facility numerous times a year at no costs. It only takes a will and creative hard working minds. Saying it's too hard is unacceptable. Nothing worthwhile is easy.

 

[Consigliere]

Did you explore this? Don't buy the tropical park land. Build the stadium and have a 99yr lease at 1$ a year. The city/county would not say no to that. The school would also agree to let the city/county use the facility numerous times a year at no costs. It only takes a will and creative hard working minds. Saying it's too hard is unacceptable. Nothing worthwhile is easy.

A land lease would benefit everyone.