Our Culture (entire program)

Noliaboi

Sophomore
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
Messages
1,476
Program culture is rotten to the core. The blame today goes to both the coaches and the players. Having played football, watched football for 30 plus years, served 20 years in the military, I don’t know what’s wrong with this program culture. How long does it take to change culture? I know it takes longer than 9 months and 4 games. However, **** we can’t get out of our own way!

It’s like we’re cursed and normally I don’t believe in curses but we can’t make the right hires, we make momentum recruiting and turn around and have crippling loses like today. We have players (James Williams for example) if they were on other teams, would potentially be better.

What is it? Is it the program, is it kids still being around the area/city they grew up in? Wtf is it?
 
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It’s years
Program culture is rotten to the core. The blame today goes to both the coaches and the players. Having played football, watched football for 30 plus years, served 20 years in the military, I don’t know what’s wrong with this program culture. How long does it take to change culture? I know it takes longer than 9 months and 4 games. However, **** we can’t get out of our own way!

It’s like we’re cursed and normally I don’t believe in curses but we can’t make the right hires, we make momentum recruiting and turn around and have crippling loses like today. We have players (James Williams for example) if they were on other teams, would potentially be better.

What is it? Is it the program, is it kids still being around the area/city they grew up in? Wtf is it?
If it were one issue it’d be an easy fix. The reality is it’s many issues built over many years. At this point it’s a circle which seems to always circle back to mediocrity and unfulfilled expectation. We’re 5 weeks into a season. Hard to say but be patient and hear me out.

I would argue our troubles go well beyond the Larry Coker experiment. Anyone 40+ on this board knows this. But for simplicity sake let’s start there.

The culture and mindset changed at that point. The admin was always an uphill battle. But it turned incredibly rough prior to and during his tenure. As far as football went it was particularly difficult to watch and be around. Utterly lazy recruiting (which some including Larry thought would just fix itself) and the lack of work and discipline was painful. It was a particularly bitter pill for those who saw or were around the daily ins and outs the previous 6-7 years sans a couple of them which were obviously successful. The turn the program took was a kick to the face of those who literally brought this from ashes back to relevancy. To no exaggeration there were voices which had clout internally calling for an end to the program while others sought punishment at minimum as payback for actions every other successful team was also doing. The results, like getting beat down 47-0 in your house to your rival were lauded by those same people. Worst off there was no sense of shame in making it publicly known. The staff, support staff, and every one else who cared about this program fought a daily battle for a handful of years there, even when success started to land our way. The modern era of sludge which is our program was built there.

Follow Larry up with a lazy hire, Miami guy, who anyone with a brain and idea of what it takes to have continued success would tell you was an awful decision. Sound familiar? It was a typical knee jerk reaction made by those without a clue. Discipline and a program run amok? Let’s bring in the good story, came from nothing, hard nose guy regardless of his qualification. Again I look back to that USF game. The view from that USF sideline of an empty stadium, literally buzzards circling overhead, and a visiting team fired up in the 110 degree sun while our boys chilled in the shade said it all.

Say what you like about the not so Golden years. Al was not lazy, he was just stubborn beyond acceptability and out of his element no matter what persona he wanted to project. I don’t know what the numbers are exactly but I do know we had an entire starting offensive line get a look or make a career out of the NFL. His shortcomings were obvious, mainly his inability to relate to local players but even more so local coaching staffs.

This is where it gets tricky and in a way reminds me of 20 some odd years ago. Mark Richt brought in instant credibility. Ultimately he would have been the perfect bridge to the last few years. There’s one key specific though which has led us to where we are as far he goes. He’s the nicest guy on the planet. Hiring Manny was not his decision nor obviously did he have the power to do so. His word though did carry a lot of weight. I can tell you when the Manny decision was made he was consulted. Mark being Mark, he did not give his blessing but he did not say it’s the wrong direction or that we should be patient and attempt to do better. Blake James had his mind made up and Mark’s unwillingness to be painfully direct and forthright set that bridge to opportunity ablaze and was used as an implied blessing. Anyone who says anything different or a variation of that is not correct.

I’ve said enough about Manny prior to my “mistake” banning under my very similar previous handle. Ultimately there are players on this team still who were infected by his lack understanding and leadership. To @Liberty City El point. Some of those guys were the same guys who were excused from practice for a myriad of irrelevant reasons. Guys who didn’t complete rehab assignments, show up on time or at all to OTF, and just generally wavered in the wind. There were multiple times where the guys who put in the extra work were clowned and it was either brought to or witnessed in a passive aggressive manner by Manny. To me that overwhelmingly has Manny’s name all over it as far as responsibility goes. And not just him, but some of the clowns he placed on his staff who acted like immature, nutless frat boys who were along for the notoriety, the ride, and the money.

And to that point as far as responsibility. I do not condone the I’ll presented, overly harsh, child like banter about players which some give. At the same time. To lump those who provide constructive criticism on here to be lumped in with those fools is not right either.

I’ve read numerous times how the constructive folks on here need to take it down a notch because players and recruits read this board. Nonsense on many levels. First and foremost, with few exceptions, being a great athlete/player or at least one who gets paid via cash or scholarship to play a sport and achieves success requires a massive amount of compartmentalization. One of the greatest lines I heard from a coach of mine was “if you can’t deal with it, don’t read it”. That’d be my suggestion for anyone reading this or other stuff. Mario’s goal is to have more Wesley Bissainthe’s here, and less guys who get hurt because they half *** rehab, are too busy doing non football related ****, or can’t humble themselves enough to not bad mouth certain variables of program both via the media and on a smaller scale (they know who they are). The reality is there’s a portion of guys on this team who do little to nothing extra, and others who are here for success both personally and as a team. To complain in an era where you are in school, have access to limitless resources both athletically and academically to make yourself better, and get paid to boot is horrendous as myself and others who did the same 20 years ago would have killed for that. Cry me a river as far as these guys feelings getting hurt when you drop multiple balls a game and yet out no extra work in.

In conclusion I know it’s painful. I felt compelled to throw a couple tidbits in partially for my own selfish need to vent. We’re literally 5 weeks into a season with a coach and staff which will get this turned around. He’s our second legitimate leader we’ve had over the past 20+ years and the other was a short timer who did his best while here. Stick with it, the worm is going to turn.
 
The roster and staff needed a larger purge this past offseason. Everyone involved at spring practice should have looked around and been like "hi nice to meet you." Instead we keep the same old guys on staff for a million years (Ishmael, Baez, Rumph, Stroud etc) and it all still feels like the same old half-assed operation.
 
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It’s years

If it were one issue it’d be an easy fix. The reality is it’s many issues built over many years. At this point it’s a circle which seems to always circle back to mediocrity and unfulfilled expectation. We’re 5 weeks into a season. Hard to say but be patient and hear me out.

I would argue our troubles go well beyond the Larry Coker experiment. Anyone 40+ on this board knows this. But for simplicity sake let’s start there.

The culture and mindset changed at that point. The admin was always an uphill battle. But it turned incredibly rough prior to and during his tenure. As far as football went it was particularly difficult to watch and be around. Utterly lazy recruiting (which some including Larry thought would just fix itself) and the lack of work and discipline was painful. It was a particularly bitter pill for those who saw or were around the daily ins and outs the previous 6-7 years sans a couple of them which were obviously successful. The turn the program took was a kick to the face of those who literally brought this from ashes back to relevancy. To no exaggeration there were voices which had clout internally calling for an end to the program while others sought punishment at minimum as payback for actions every other successful team was also doing. The results, like getting beat down 47-0 in your house to your rival were lauded by those same people. Worst off there was no sense of shame in making it publicly known. The staff, support staff, and every one else who cared about this program fought a daily battle for a handful of years there, even when success started to land our way. The modern era of sludge which is our program was built there.

Follow Larry up with a lazy hire, Miami guy, who anyone with a brain and idea of what it takes to have continued success would tell you was an awful decision. Sound familiar? It was a typical knee jerk reaction made by those without a clue. Discipline and a program run amok? Let’s bring in the good story, came from nothing, hard nose guy regardless of his qualification. Again I look back to that USF game. The view from that USF sideline of an empty stadium, literally buzzards circling overhead, and a visiting team fired up in the 110 degree sun while our boys chilled in the shade said it all.

Say what you like about the not so Golden years. Al was not lazy, he was just stubborn beyond acceptability and out of his element no matter what persona he wanted to project. I don’t know what the numbers are exactly but I do know we had an entire starting offensive line get a look or make a career out of the NFL. His shortcomings were obvious, mainly his inability to relate to local players but even more so local coaching staffs.

This is where it gets tricky and in a way reminds me of 20 some odd years ago. Mark Richt brought in instant credibility. Ultimately he would have been the perfect bridge to the last few years. There’s one key specific though which has led us to where we are as far he goes. He’s the nicest guy on the planet. Hiring Manny was not his decision nor obviously did he have the power to do so. His word though did carry a lot of weight. I can tell you when the Manny decision was made he was consulted. Mark being Mark, he did not give his blessing but he did not say it’s the wrong direction or that we should be patient and attempt to do better. Blake James had his mind made up and Mark’s unwillingness to be painfully direct and forthright set that bridge to opportunity ablaze and was used as an implied blessing. Anyone who says anything different or a variation of that is not correct.

I’ve said enough about Manny prior to my “mistake” banning under my very similar previous handle. Ultimately there are players on this team still who were infected by his lack understanding and leadership. To @Liberty City El point. Some of those guys were the same guys who were excused from practice for a myriad of irrelevant reasons. Guys who didn’t complete rehab assignments, show up on time or at all to OTF, and just generally wavered in the wind. There were multiple times where the guys who put in the extra work were clowned and it was either brought to or witnessed in a passive aggressive manner by Manny. To me that overwhelmingly has Manny’s name all over it as far as responsibility goes. And not just him, but some of the clowns he placed on his staff who acted like immature, nutless frat boys who were along for the notoriety, the ride, and the money.

And to that point as far as responsibility. I do not condone the I’ll presented, overly harsh, child like banter about players which some give. At the same time. To lump those who provide constructive criticism on here to be lumped in with those fools is not right either.

I’ve read numerous times how the constructive folks on here need to take it down a notch because players and recruits read this board. Nonsense on many levels. First and foremost, with few exceptions, being a great athlete/player or at least one who gets paid via cash or scholarship to play a sport and achieves success requires a massive amount of compartmentalization. One of the greatest lines I heard from a coach of mine was “if you can’t deal with it, don’t read it”. That’d be my suggestion for anyone reading this or other stuff. Mario’s goal is to have more Wesley Bissainthe’s here, and less guys who get hurt because they half *** rehab, are too busy doing non football related ****, or can’t humble themselves enough to not bad mouth certain variables of program both via the media and on a smaller scale (they know who they are). The reality is there’s a portion of guys on this team who do little to nothing extra, and others who are here for success both personally and as a team. To complain in an era where you are in school, have access to limitless resources both athletically and academically to make yourself better, and get paid to boot is horrendous as myself and others who did the same 20 years ago would have killed for that. Cry me a river as far as these guys feelings getting hurt when you drop multiple balls a game and yet out no extra work in.

In conclusion I know it’s painful. I felt compelled to throw a couple tidbits in partially for my own selfish need to vent. We’re literally 5 weeks into a season with a coach and staff which will get this turned around. He’s our second legitimate leader we’ve had over the past 20+ years and the other was a short timer who did his best while here. Stick with it, the worm is going to turn.
Thank you for the insight. We tend to get caught up bickering over who's to blame, so it's nice to hear a perspective that's closer to the situation.

You need an avatar.
 
It’s years

If it were one issue it’d be an easy fix. The reality is it’s many issues built over many years. At this point it’s a circle which seems to always circle back to mediocrity and unfulfilled expectation. We’re 5 weeks into a season. Hard to say but be patient and hear me out.

I would argue our troubles go well beyond the Larry Coker experiment. Anyone 40+ on this board knows this. But for simplicity sake let’s start there.

The culture and mindset changed at that point. The admin was always an uphill battle. But it turned incredibly rough prior to and during his tenure. As far as football went it was particularly difficult to watch and be around. Utterly lazy recruiting (which some including Larry thought would just fix itself) and the lack of work and discipline was painful. It was a particularly bitter pill for those who saw or were around the daily ins and outs the previous 6-7 years sans a couple of them which were obviously successful. The turn the program took was a kick to the face of those who literally brought this from ashes back to relevancy. To no exaggeration there were voices which had clout internally calling for an end to the program while others sought punishment at minimum as payback for actions every other successful team was also doing. The results, like getting beat down 47-0 in your house to your rival were lauded by those same people. Worst off there was no sense of shame in making it publicly known. The staff, support staff, and every one else who cared about this program fought a daily battle for a handful of years there, even when success started to land our way. The modern era of sludge which is our program was built there.

Follow Larry up with a lazy hire, Miami guy, who anyone with a brain and idea of what it takes to have continued success would tell you was an awful decision. Sound familiar? It was a typical knee jerk reaction made by those without a clue. Discipline and a program run amok? Let’s bring in the good story, came from nothing, hard nose guy regardless of his qualification. Again I look back to that USF game. The view from that USF sideline of an empty stadium, literally buzzards circling overhead, and a visiting team fired up in the 110 degree sun while our boys chilled in the shade said it all.

Say what you like about the not so Golden years. Al was not lazy, he was just stubborn beyond acceptability and out of his element no matter what persona he wanted to project. I don’t know what the numbers are exactly but I do know we had an entire starting offensive line get a look or make a career out of the NFL. His shortcomings were obvious, mainly his inability to relate to local players but even more so local coaching staffs.

This is where it gets tricky and in a way reminds me of 20 some odd years ago. Mark Richt brought in instant credibility. Ultimately he would have been the perfect bridge to the last few years. There’s one key specific though which has led us to where we are as far he goes. He’s the nicest guy on the planet. Hiring Manny was not his decision nor obviously did he have the power to do so. His word though did carry a lot of weight. I can tell you when the Manny decision was made he was consulted. Mark being Mark, he did not give his blessing but he did not say it’s the wrong direction or that we should be patient and attempt to do better. Blake James had his mind made up and Mark’s unwillingness to be painfully direct and forthright set that bridge to opportunity ablaze and was used as an implied blessing. Anyone who says anything different or a variation of that is not correct.

I’ve said enough about Manny prior to my “mistake” banning under my very similar previous handle. Ultimately there are players on this team still who were infected by his lack understanding and leadership. To @Liberty City El point. Some of those guys were the same guys who were excused from practice for a myriad of irrelevant reasons. Guys who didn’t complete rehab assignments, show up on time or at all to OTF, and just generally wavered in the wind. There were multiple times where the guys who put in the extra work were clowned and it was either brought to or witnessed in a passive aggressive manner by Manny. To me that overwhelmingly has Manny’s name all over it as far as responsibility goes. And not just him, but some of the clowns he placed on his staff who acted like immature, nutless frat boys who were along for the notoriety, the ride, and the money.

And to that point as far as responsibility. I do not condone the I’ll presented, overly harsh, child like banter about players which some give. At the same time. To lump those who provide constructive criticism on here to be lumped in with those fools is not right either.

I’ve read numerous times how the constructive folks on here need to take it down a notch because players and recruits read this board. Nonsense on many levels. First and foremost, with few exceptions, being a great athlete/player or at least one who gets paid via cash or scholarship to play a sport and achieves success requires a massive amount of compartmentalization. One of the greatest lines I heard from a coach of mine was “if you can’t deal with it, don’t read it”. That’d be my suggestion for anyone reading this or other stuff. Mario’s goal is to have more Wesley Bissainthe’s here, and less guys who get hurt because they half *** rehab, are too busy doing non football related ****, or can’t humble themselves enough to not bad mouth certain variables of program both via the media and on a smaller scale (they know who they are). The reality is there’s a portion of guys on this team who do little to nothing extra, and others who are here for success both personally and as a team. To complain in an era where you are in school, have access to limitless resources both athletically and academically to make yourself better, and get paid to boot is horrendous as myself and others who did the same 20 years ago would have killed for that. Cry me a river as far as these guys feelings getting hurt when you drop multiple balls a game and yet out no extra work in.

In conclusion I know it’s painful. I felt compelled to throw a couple tidbits in partially for my own selfish need to vent. We’re literally 5 weeks into a season with a coach and staff which will get this turned around. He’s our second legitimate leader we’ve had over the past 20+ years and the other was a short timer who did his best while here. Stick with it, the worm is going to turn.
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This is one of the reasons I have faith in Mario. I've listened intently to his pressers after these losses and it leaves me with confidence that he can get the rot out of the program, yes some is wishful thinking as well, but hey...as odd as it sounds I came away from UNC felling slightly getter than MTSU because they played hard and had it not been for a tipped int could have easily won that game.
Blades effort alone made me smile, he busted his *** diving after that ball to knock it back in and almost made a play that would have been epic had they gotten the ball and won.
 
Shalala changed everything the day after the FIU brawl. Now it’s up to Mario and staff to rid the program of her mark and start a new culture. Forget those championship years, they’re history. It’s time for a new era of cane football. I believe Mario will get this done.
 
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It’s years

If it were one issue it’d be an easy fix. The reality is it’s many issues built over many years. At this point it’s a circle which seems to always circle back to mediocrity and unfulfilled expectation. We’re 5 weeks into a season. Hard to say but be patient and hear me out.

I would argue our troubles go well beyond the Larry Coker experiment. Anyone 40+ on this board knows this. But for simplicity sake let’s start there.

The culture and mindset changed at that point. The admin was always an uphill battle. But it turned incredibly rough prior to and during his tenure. As far as football went it was particularly difficult to watch and be around. Utterly lazy recruiting (which some including Larry thought would just fix itself) and the lack of work and discipline was painful. It was a particularly bitter pill for those who saw or were around the daily ins and outs the previous 6-7 years sans a couple of them which were obviously successful. The turn the program took was a kick to the face of those who literally brought this from ashes back to relevancy. To no exaggeration there were voices which had clout internally calling for an end to the program while others sought punishment at minimum as payback for actions every other successful team was also doing. The results, like getting beat down 47-0 in your house to your rival were lauded by those same people. Worst off there was no sense of shame in making it publicly known. The staff, support staff, and every one else who cared about this program fought a daily battle for a handful of years there, even when success started to land our way. The modern era of sludge which is our program was built there.

Follow Larry up with a lazy hire, Miami guy, who anyone with a brain and idea of what it takes to have continued success would tell you was an awful decision. Sound familiar? It was a typical knee jerk reaction made by those without a clue. Discipline and a program run amok? Let’s bring in the good story, came from nothing, hard nose guy regardless of his qualification. Again I look back to that USF game. The view from that USF sideline of an empty stadium, literally buzzards circling overhead, and a visiting team fired up in the 110 degree sun while our boys chilled in the shade said it all.

Say what you like about the not so Golden years. Al was not lazy, he was just stubborn beyond acceptability and out of his element no matter what persona he wanted to project. I don’t know what the numbers are exactly but I do know we had an entire starting offensive line get a look or make a career out of the NFL. His shortcomings were obvious, mainly his inability to relate to local players but even more so local coaching staffs.

This is where it gets tricky and in a way reminds me of 20 some odd years ago. Mark Richt brought in instant credibility. Ultimately he would have been the perfect bridge to the last few years. There’s one key specific though which has led us to where we are as far he goes. He’s the nicest guy on the planet. Hiring Manny was not his decision nor obviously did he have the power to do so. His word though did carry a lot of weight. I can tell you when the Manny decision was made he was consulted. Mark being Mark, he did not give his blessing but he did not say it’s the wrong direction or that we should be patient and attempt to do better. Blake James had his mind made up and Mark’s unwillingness to be painfully direct and forthright set that bridge to opportunity ablaze and was used as an implied blessing. Anyone who says anything different or a variation of that is not correct.

I’ve said enough about Manny prior to my “mistake” banning under my very similar previous handle. Ultimately there are players on this team still who were infected by his lack understanding and leadership. To @Liberty City El point. Some of those guys were the same guys who were excused from practice for a myriad of irrelevant reasons. Guys who didn’t complete rehab assignments, show up on time or at all to OTF, and just generally wavered in the wind. There were multiple times where the guys who put in the extra work were clowned and it was either brought to or witnessed in a passive aggressive manner by Manny. To me that overwhelmingly has Manny’s name all over it as far as responsibility goes. And not just him, but some of the clowns he placed on his staff who acted like immature, nutless frat boys who were along for the notoriety, the ride, and the money.

And to that point as far as responsibility. I do not condone the I’ll presented, overly harsh, child like banter about players which some give. At the same time. To lump those who provide constructive criticism on here to be lumped in with those fools is not right either.

I’ve read numerous times how the constructive folks on here need to take it down a notch because players and recruits read this board. Nonsense on many levels. First and foremost, with few exceptions, being a great athlete/player or at least one who gets paid via cash or scholarship to play a sport and achieves success requires a massive amount of compartmentalization. One of the greatest lines I heard from a coach of mine was “if you can’t deal with it, don’t read it”. That’d be my suggestion for anyone reading this or other stuff. Mario’s goal is to have more Wesley Bissainthe’s here, and less guys who get hurt because they half *** rehab, are too busy doing non football related ****, or can’t humble themselves enough to not bad mouth certain variables of program both via the media and on a smaller scale (they know who they are). The reality is there’s a portion of guys on this team who do little to nothing extra, and others who are here for success both personally and as a team. To complain in an era where you are in school, have access to limitless resources both athletically and academically to make yourself better, and get paid to boot is horrendous as myself and others who did the same 20 years ago would have killed for that. Cry me a river as far as these guys feelings getting hurt when you drop multiple balls a game and yet out no extra work in.

In conclusion I know it’s painful. I felt compelled to throw a couple tidbits in partially for my own selfish need to vent. We’re literally 5 weeks into a season with a coach and staff which will get this turned around. He’s our second legitimate leader we’ve had over the past 20+ years and the other was a short timer who did his best while here. Stick with it, the worm is going to turn.
I’m in awe…
 
Thank you for the insight. We tend to get caught up bickering over who's to blame, so it's nice to hear a perspective that's closer to the situation.

You need an avatar.

Post was an interesting read and one that did not appear incredibly biased.

Fix the offensive coaching approach. Win games. Fix the talent level. Go!
 
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The roster and staff needed a larger purge this past offseason. Everyone involved at spring practice should have looked around and been like "hi nice to meet you." Instead we keep the same old guys on staff for a million years (Ishmael, Baez, Rumph, Stroud etc) and it all still feels like the same old half-assed operation.
I’ve posted multiple times that everyone that’s ever touched football should’ve been fired. All the way down to the janitors.
 
This team went from gritty and grimy to manicured and pretty.
From dudes getting choked out and getting jumped for not working out to taking pictures with nice cars and clothes and making fun of hard workers.

Amazing that players at the university of Miami we’re making fun of other players for putting in extra work in and out of the building.
It’s something that players have tried to keep under wraps and have let out with cryptic answers during press conferences.
“Not gonna get into that”
“Some things that went on that I don’t want to speak on”
“I can only speak for myself”
 
As much as we want to blame culture, and culture has a big roll, the losses are largely due to not putting the ball in the endzone and giving up big plays on defense.

More so the offense. If we were told the defense would give up 27 to UNC, we'd think that was a decent to pretty good performance.

At the end of the day, we're not putting the ball in the endzone that's causing losses. There are plenty of other factors like defense and culture, but the failure to get TDs on 1st and goal drives is directly affecting wins and losses. It's #1 on the list of things to immediately fix.
 
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