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Our Best OL since..?

Rellyrell said:
Let’s not forget, Vaughn was much maligned by this fan base & considered a low key bust after his severe regression his Sophomore yr. Rivers hasn’t played a single down. Hence, y I said let’s temper the talk of “best OL since….” That’s a presumptuous statement w/ no data to support.
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Note I said hopefully they CAN make a difference. Agree it’s yet to be seen.
 
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JHallCanes said:
That 2014 line was pretty **** good

things get interesting when you look at the type of offense we are running

but this is definitely the best group we’ve had in quite a while especially if Donaldson can put it together
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Agree. Not saying much but that's accurate. It can be labeled a GOOD OL if Scaife can finally play well and Vaughn plays well.
 
Rellyrell said:
No sir; that would be incorrect my brother. Sacks r definitely not a QB stat. Can a QB contribute to that stat by holding on the ball too long? Absolutely, but sacks are generally on the OL. Hence, why NFL GMs are much criticized if their QBs constantly get hit by not providing him the proper protection up front.
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NFL QBs are usually sacked because they hold the ball for too long. Lashlee called out King last season for exactly this behaviour. If I could count the amount of times where an analyst on TV says "he should've thrown the ball away" and drink a shot, I would be dead once the first period of Sunday NFL games are done.

Pressures are on the OL. They are way more consistent in evaluating offensive lines and pass rushers, but not every pressure results in a sack. NFL GMs actually pay more and more attention into pressures rather than sacks. That trend has started to change.

Sack numbers are most influenced by a QB. Brady had 21 less sacks compared to Russell Wilson whilst having 1. worse weapons 2. being a 5.2 speed QB and 3. playing behind a second string G, a LT coming off an Achilles injury the previous season and a trip to IR and a third string RT. Wilsons and Bradys PocketTime were identical:

www.pro-football-reference.com

2019 NFL Advanced Passing | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2019 NFL Advanced Passing Stats and more on Pro-football-reference.com
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com

The major difference was that Brady had 20 more passes thrown away. Mobile QBs tend to rely too much on their athleticism rather than just keeping play discipline. Mahomes had 22 sacks in the regular season and we all saw what happened in the Super Bowl. Dude has a tendency to drop back too far and if your O-Line is already made out of turnstiles, a beating is due.

Most offensive lines average around 2.5 seconds to throw, which is usually the golden number. However, when a team has way more pressures than the other whilst having the same amount of time in the pocket, usually it comes down to the QB. When I look at an O-Line, especially in the NFL, I look at pressures. They happen more often, influence the passer more and are just more consistent. Its even better when they are split up in Hurries, Hits and sacks, because then you can see how the numbers add up and what influenced them.

The O-Line will be fine. If we are stuck in less obvious passing downs, increase the gained yardage on first down and reduce penalties, that sack number should regress automatically.
 
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407cane said:
Honest question, since I firmly believe this game comes down to our OL.

When's the last time we've had a line this good? 2014? Not even just the experience but talent wise and size. Zion, Jalen Rivers, Gaynor, Donaldson, and Scaife

Finally size at the guard spot, legitimate tackle spots, and of course the previously mentioned experience.

I have never been one to harp on OL play but we stand zero chance unless those 5 gentlemen have one **** of a game on Saturday

that 2014 had a lot of NFL talent on it. Darling, Flowers, Isidora, shane and kc mcdermott, felciano, etc.

I'm really excited to see them this year and to see if we can finally hold our own against physical teams. Our offense and king is too good to waste on a shi**y OL
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The silver lining in Golden.
He did build a Big Ten Oline..
 
423Hurricane said:
The pieces are there Rell. Lots of experience (except for Rivers). If they can gel, they have the potential to be pretty good.
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Man, u know how I feel about that word “potential.”

Listen, I went out of my comfort zone this season. I went full optimism mode. We have all the ingredients to be very special this yr. I think we can be way better than 2017. In 2017, we had a broke man’s D King and won 10 games. This yr we have EVERYTHING needed:

1. Experience
2. Returning Production
3. Continuity
4. Upgraded Coaching Staff
5. Easy Schedule

I would be absolutely shocked & ridiculously ****ed if this team is not in Charlotte, with 10+ wins under our belt.
 
Rellyrell said:
Man, u know how I feel about that word “potential.”

Listen, I went out of my comfort zone this season. I went full optimism mode. We have all the ingredients to be very special this yr. I think we can be way better than 2017. In 2017, we had a broke man’s D King and won 10 games. This yr we have EVERYTHING needed:

1. Experience
2. Returning Production
3. Continuity
4. Upgraded Coaching Staff
5. Easy Schedule

I would be absolutely shocked & ridiculously ****ed if this team is not in Charlotte, with 10+ wins under our belt.
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A wise man once said, I get there’s this optimism, but this OL we’re returning allowed this:

67th in rushing
98th in sacks allowed
117th in TFLs allowed
 
Corey Gaynor got his **** pushed in alot last year. He concerns me in this first game. Bama has NFL talent on that DL. I am interested to see what Donaldson and Rivers can do in the run game. I'm in wait and see mode.
 
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Hogan said:
NFL QBs are usually sacked because they hold the ball for too long. Lashlee called out King last season for exactly this behaviour. If I could count the amount of times where an analyst on TV says "he should've thrown the ball away" and drink a shot, I would be dead once the first period of Sunday NFL games are done.

Pressures are on the OL. They are way more consistent in evaluating offensive lines and pass rushers, but not every pressure results in a sack. NFL GMs actually pay more and more attention into pressures rather than sacks. That trend has started to change.

Sack numbers are most influenced by a QB. Brady had 21 less sacks compared to Russell Wilson whilst having 1. worse weapons 2. being a 5.2 speed QB and 3. playing behind a second string G, a LT coming off an Achilles injury the previous season and a trip to IR and a third string RT. Wilsons and Bradys PocketTime were identical:

www.pro-football-reference.com

2019 NFL Advanced Passing | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2019 NFL Advanced Passing Stats and more on Pro-football-reference.com
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com

The major difference was that Brady had 20 more passes thrown away. Mobile QBs tend to rely too much on their athleticism rather than just keeping play discipline. Mahomes had 22 sacks in the regular season and we all saw what happened in the Super Bowl. Dude has a tendency to drop back too far and if your O-Line is already made out of turnstiles, a beating is due.

Most offensive lines average around 2.5 seconds to throw, which is usually the golden number. However, when a team has way more pressures than the other whilst having the same amount of time in the pocket, usually it comes down to the QB. When I look at an O-Line, especially in the NFL, I look at pressures. They happen more often, influence the passer more and are just more consistent. Its even better when they are split up in Hurries, Hits and sacks, because then you can see how the numbers add up and what influenced them.

The O-Line will be fine. If we are stuck in less obvious passing downs, increase the gained yardage on first down and reduce penalties, that sack number should regress automatically.
Click to expand...

I would see ur point, IF this OL wasn’t even worst in TFLs allowed. Lol. I would also see ur point, IF this OL was great at creating running lanes. So u can try to isolate & explain how sacks are on QBs, but the fact is, yes, King took too long to throw the ball at times, but what I saw, often, was King running for his life. As I mentioned in several threads, Lashlee can try to be a hard *** & call out King, but King made the OL look even better than they performed due to his legs.

Which is y I’m pausing on the hype. Show me, b/c for 3 seasons, this line has been less than stellar & not even on par at being avg.
 
Why do we think this OL is going to be good? We couldn’t consistently run or pass block against anyone last year. We have a bunch of JAGS on this offensive line.
 
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407cane said:
Honest question, since I firmly believe this game comes down to our OL.

When's the last time we've had a line this good? 2014? Not even just the experience but talent wise and size. Zion, Jalen Rivers, Gaynor, Donaldson, and Scaife

Finally size at the guard spot, legitimate tackle spots, and of course the previously mentioned experience.

I have never been one to harp on OL play but we stand zero chance unless those 5 gentlemen have one **** of a game on Saturday

that 2014 had a lot of NFL talent on it. Darling, Flowers, Isidora, shane and kc mcdermott, felciano, etc.

I'm really excited to see them this year and to see if we can finally hold our own against physical teams. Our offense and king is too good to waste on a shi**y OL
Click to expand...
Better no doubt, but remains to be seen
 
Rellyrell said:
Can we pause on this until we see them actually play?

Let’s not forget we were:
67th in rushing
98th in sacks allowed
117th in TFLs allowed

So I get there’s this optimism, but this OL we’re returning allowed this. Let’s see how much improved they r by week 5.
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Was Rivers & Donaldson on that oline?
 
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JgDaCane said:
Was Rivers & Donaldson on that oline?
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So U’re relying upon an unknown & a maligned Sr?

Again, let them play before we claim “best since…” there is literally not one iota of data to support this presumption. It’s based upon potential, but if we’re basing everything on “potential”, then potentially we should have 13 Coastal titles since 2004. Just let the guys prove & then we can can come back in the middle of season to speak on their greatness.
 
Rellyrell said:
Can we pause on this until we see them actually play?

Let’s not forget we were:
67th in rushing
98th in sacks allowed
117th in TFLs allowed

So I get there’s this optimism, but this OL we’re returning allowed this. Let’s see how much improved they r by week 5.
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Donaldson played sparingly in the last 4 games. The guy is 30 pounds lighter and he is 100% healthy. Rivers also played sparingly in 7 games. So that is 2 new starters. One with 34 starts and the other a blue chipper. And Scaife moves to right tackle replacing guy with who is literally a 7th year college player and started 10 games last year. Scaife is in his natural position.
 
Pentagon Cane said:
Donaldson played sparingly in the last 4 games. The guy is 30 pounds lighter and he is 100% healthy. Rivers also played sparingly in 7 games. So that is 2 new starters. One with 34 starts and the other a blue chipper. And Scaife moves to right tackle replacing guy with who is literally a 7th year college player and started 10 games last year. Scaife is in his natural position.
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Again, “potential.” We’ve had plenty of blue chips that have been potato chips, so that argument is moot to me. We have potential, but until a snap has been played, it’s literally speculation. The last thing I want is for the hype not come to fruition & then it becomes a bash fest. So let’s allow the boys to prove it.
 
I don't understand the overhyping of this OL group, Nelson is the only one that has been good at this level and he still has ways to go to be an All ACC type player. Gaynor is an average ACC center at best, Donaldson has been bad for 3 years, Scaife was an ok/above average Tackle 3 years ago, and Rivers is a question mark.
Even if this group becomes a good OL, it won't be on the first game against probably the best DL in the country
 
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