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OT/ Which of these Miami greats would you vote for to make 2022 NFL HOF class?

ChoadCane said:
Wayne gets in 2022. Dre, Hester will get in soon. Wilfork maybe. IMO he should. Dominant NT on NFL Dynasty.

After those 4 it's almost a wrap for us. Gore gets in. Maybe Calais. He needs 10 to 15 more sacks and maybe a ring or another PB. Maybe Graham. He needs probably 2k more yards and 20 TDs. Hopefully Chuck Foreman gets in one day.
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Jimmy was on the right trajectory and would probably be a shoe-in had he not been traded from New Orleans. He was neck and neck with Gronk stat wise for a few seasons. Granted he did get to play with Wilson and Rodgers after being traded, but at least from the perspective of someone who doesn't follow either team closely, it seemed like he wasn't targeted as liberally as he was with Brees in NO.
 
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BoxingRobes said:
Brother, his resume is very similar to Ted Washington, and Ted Washington has twice as many sacks as he Big Vince. Chester McGlockton has a similar result in regards to AP/PB and has over 3x as many sacks. Neither guy is likely getting into the Hall of Fame. A similar low sack nose tackle with a similar resume, Fred Smerlas, isn't in.

Listen man, I love'em. And if he gets in, we celebrating.

I just don't see it. Maybe I'm wrong, but if you look at who is in the HoF from the DT/NT spot, Vince doesn't fit. He'd be unique.

I think the guy that gets in from that Patriots DL during those championship teams is Richard Seymour. It don't think it'll be both. IMO, Calais has more of a chance to get in to the Hall of Fame than Vince.
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Vince’s resume isn’t like those guys. His resume is anchor of dynasty DL in the middle, 2 SBs. More pro bowls than them too.

He could get in. His peers know what he was. I put it below 50% but >25%. Real chance.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Vince’s resume isn’t like those guys. His resume is anchor of dynasty DL in the middle, 2 SBs. More pro bowls than them too.

He could get in. His peers know what he was. I put it below 50% but >25%. Real chance.
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Vince, Ted Washington, and Chester McGlockton are all nose tackles.

Vince has 2 championships, 1x All-Pro, 5x Pro Bowler, 16 career sacks, didn't make the All-Decade Team. (Richard Seymour did, and he's getting in from that Patriots DL)

Ted Washington has 1 championship, 1x All-Pro, 4x Pro Bowler, 34.5 career sacks, didn't make All-Decade.

His contemporary at nose tackle was Casey Hampton. 2x champion, 0 All-Pro 5x Pro Bowler, 9 career sacks, obviously not All-Decade. He'll clearly never sniff the Hall of Fame.

Look at some players that still aren't in and probably won't

Bryant Young - 1x champion, 1x All-Pro, 4x Pro Bowl, 89.5 (!!!) career sacks, and was 1990s All-Decade Team.
La'Roi Glover - 0x champion, 1x All-Pro, 6x Pro Bowler, 83 career sacks, 2000s All-Decade Team, former Defensive Player of the Year.
Trevor Pryce - 2x champion, 1x All-Pro, 4x Pro Bowler, 91 career sacks

Hall of Fame is all about looking what gets in v. what doesn't get in and apply a little context. Vince's resume is a tough sell when you look at his peers from his own generation, look at some corresponding generations, and see what is left out.
 
BoxingRobes said:
Vince, Ted Washington, and Chester McGlockton are all nose tackles.

Vince has 2 championships, 1x All-Pro, 5x Pro Bowler, 16 career sacks, didn't make the All-Decade Team. (Richard Seymour did, and he's getting in from that Patriots DL)

Ted Washington has 1 championship, 1x All-Pro, 4x Pro Bowler, 34.5 career sacks, didn't make All-Decade.

His contemporary at nose tackle was Casey Hampton. 2x champion, 0 All-Pro 5x Pro Bowler, 9 career sacks, obviously not All-Decade. He'll clearly never sniff the Hall of Fame.

Look at some players that still aren't in and probably won't

Bryant Young - 1x champion, 1x All-Pro, 4x Pro Bowl, 89.5 (!!!) career sacks, and was 1990s All-Decade Team.
La'Roi Glover - 0x champion, 1x All-Pro, 6x Pro Bowler, 83 career sacks, 2000s All-Decade Team, former Defensive Player of the Year.
Trevor Pryce - 2x champion, 1x All-Pro, 4x Pro Bowler, 91 career sacks

Hall of Fame is all about looking what gets in v. what doesn't get in and apply a little context. Vince's resume is a tough sell when you look at his peers from his own generation, look at some corresponding generations, and see what is left out.
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Not sure you’re saying much different from me as far as data but i don’t think you sufficiently appreciate the sognifance of guys who anchored units on dynasties / top teams when it comes to HOF voting. It’s a huge criterion. Vince is respected amongst his peers in a way your stats don’t capture. I already said I predict it’s not that likely but the argument isn’t hard to grasp.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
Not sure you’re saying much different from me as far as data but i don’t think you sufficiently appreciate the sognifance of guys who anchored units on dynasties / top teams when it comes to HOF voting. It’s a huge criterion. Vince is respected amongst his peers in a way your stats don’t capture. I already said I predict it’s not that likely but the argument isn’t hard to grasp.
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I mean, there aren't many of those types in the Hall of Fame and one of those guys from that defensive line is already getting in. There are only a few examples of teammates on the same DL getting into the Hall of Fame. There are lots of respected players that aren't in the Hall of Fame and I think that weight is carried much less than you think. Vince would be the farthest outlier on the defensive interior, which is ultimately my point. The biggest outlier currently, is Curley Culp...another nose tackle, but a revolutionary one (because he was small - even for the era) and he had 68 sacks in his career.
 
BoxingRobes said:
I mean, there aren't many of those types in the Hall of Fame and one of those guys from that defensive line is already getting in. There are only a few examples of teammates on the same DL getting into the Hall of Fame. There are lots of respected players that aren't in the Hall of Fame and I think that weight is carried much less than you think. Vince would be the farthest outlier on the defensive interior, which is ultimately my point. The biggest outlier currently, is Curley Culp...another nose tackle, but a revolutionary one (because he was small - even for the era) and he had 68 sacks in his career.
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Read more closely. You’re narrowing to DL. Not what I wrote. Swann and Stallworth wouldn’t be jn the HOF without the dynasty. For that matter, Richard Dent and Dan Hampton and Jimbo Covert wouldn’t be there without the Bears legendary teams, either. Andre Reed wouldn’t without the Bills teams. Jim Kelly wouldn’t, either. Isaac Bruce wouldn’t without those Rams teams. Art Monk wouldn’t but for the Skins.

You’re fixated on the DL. My only advice to you is to elevate.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Read more closely. You’re narrowing to DL. Not what I wrote. Swann and Stallworth wouldn’t be jn the HOF without the dynasty. For that matter, Richard Dent and Dan Hampton and Jimbo Covert wouldn’t be there without the Bears legendary teams, either. Andre Reed wouldn’t without the Bills teams. Jim Kelly wouldn’t, either. Isaac Bruce wouldn’t without those Rams teams. Art Monk wouldn’t but for the Skins.

You’re fixated on the DL. My only advice to you is to elevate.
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I think you're too high on your own supply, brother. Looking at other positions is foolhardy because the criteria is apples to oranges, but I'll play for the mental exercise.

Richard Dent had over 130 career sacks.
Jimbo Covert and Dan Hampton were first-team All-Decade Team.
Those players are all likely in on their own merits, the championship teams are just icing on the cake.

Andre Reed was top five all-time in receiving yards when he retired.

Stallworth and Swann had 4 Super Bowl rings, and Swann in particular is...other than Jerry Rice considered the greatest post-season WR in the history of the league. Swann's a bit of a questionable Hall of Fame player, admittedly, but I'd probably slide him also under the Namath exemption of a player you simply could not tell the history of the league without.

Isaac Bruce finished his career as the 2nd all-time leading WR. Art Monk 4th all-time when he retired (and I don't think Monk should have gotten in FWIW).

Jim Kelly's career numbers are a bit stunted in the NFL because of his time in the USFL, but like Warren Moon, Steve Young are a part of their resume for the Pro Football Hall of Fame, combined numbers would have had Jim Kelly as a Top 5 all-time passer in yards and touchdowns when he retired.

I want Vince to get in, man. Just because he's a 'Cane. His resume would make him such an outlier, even across positions. Your examples are a bunch of oranges.

btw - Keith Millard, 1980s second team all-decade, 1989 defensive player of the year, 58 career sacks and had the all-time, single season sack total for a nose tackle not in the Hall of Fame. Thats crazy.

The number of DTs that are awesome that are not in the Hall of Fame is wild, man.
 
BoxingRobes said:
I think you're too high on your own supply, brother. Looking at other positions is foolhardy because the criteria is apples to oranges, but I'll play for the mental exercise.

Richard Dent had over 130 career sacks.
Jimbo Covert and Dan Hampton were first-team All-Decade Team.
Those players are all likely in on their own merits, the championship teams are just icing on the cake.

Andre Reed was top five all-time in receiving yards when he retired.

Stallworth and Swann had 4 Super Bowl rings, and Swann in particular is...other than Jerry Rice considered the greatest post-season WR in the history of the league. Swann's a bit of a questionable Hall of Fame player, admittedly, but I'd probably slide him also under the Namath exemption of a player you simply could not tell the history of the league without.

Isaac Bruce finished his career as the 2nd all-time leading WR. Art Monk 4th all-time when he retired (and I don't think Monk should have gotten in FWIW).

Jim Kelly's career numbers are a bit stunted in the NFL because of his time in the USFL, but like Warren Moon, Steve Young are a part of their resume for the Pro Football Hall of Fame, combined numbers would have had Jim Kelly as a Top 5 all-time passer in yards and touchdowns when he retired.

I want Vince to get in, man. Just because he's a 'Cane. His resume would make him such an outlier, even across positions. Your examples are a bunch of oranges.

btw - Keith Millard, 1980s second team all-decade, 1989 defensive player of the year, 58 career sacks and had the all-time, single season sack total for a nose tackle not in the Hall of Fame. Thats crazy.

The number of DTs that are awesome that are not in the Hall of Fame is wild, man.
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You’re the one trying too hard. First team all decade was just some hype thing the nfl did. Covert had 2 pro bowls, 1 superbowl. Nfw he makes it if not ‘da bears.’

andre reed retired in 2000. He was elected in 2014. Almost missed the cutoff. Not 5th all time in 2014. His career highlights were 2x second team all pro. Never led league in receiving. He’s there because the bills.

isaac brice: 1x second team all pro, 1x led league in receiving. Das it.

At the end of the day, the hall is heavily tilted to key guys from teams that left an impact on the league and game.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
You’re the one trying too hard. First team all decade was just some hype thing the nfl did. Covert had 2 pro bowls, 1 superbowl. Nfw he makes it if not ‘da bears.’

andre reed retired in 2000. He was elected in 2014. Almost missed the cutoff. Not 5th all time in 2014. His career highlights were 2x second team all pro. Never led league in receiving. He’s there because the bills.

isaac brice: 1x second team all pro, 1x led league in receiving. Das it.

At the end of the day, the hall is heavily tilted to key guys from teams that left an impact on the league and game.
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Seems you're the one trying to hard with all of these orange examples. All-Decade teams give you a nice point of reference...and considering many first and second teamers ultimately become Hall of Famers. Andre Reed and Isaac Bruce...again, those guys, when they retired were two of the most statistically prolific wide receivers in the history of the game. This is not hard.

What is the case FOR Vince Wilfork? There are many players with his resume and much better that aren't and won't get in. Was he the best NT of his era? I'd argue that was Haloti Ngata. We letting in two NT from the same era when there aren't many in right now? So, whats his case other than he was a Miami Hurricane on the Patriots and won two Super Bowls?
 
BoxingRobes said:
Seems you're the one trying to hard with all of these orange examples. All-Decade teams give you a nice point of reference...and considering many first and second teamers ultimately become Hall of Famers. Andre Reed and Isaac Bruce...again, those guys, when they retired were two of the most statistically prolific wide receivers in the history of the game. This is not hard.

What is the case FOR Vince Wilfork? There are many players with his resume and much better that aren't and won't get in. Was he the best NT of his era? I'd argue that was Haloti Ngata. We letting in two NT from the same era when there aren't many in right now? So, whats his case other than he was a Miami Hurricane on the Patriots and won two Super Bowls?
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Love Big Vince...and would love to see him Enshrined...but he's last on my list in ref to OPs original post....Not even a Top 5 DT at UM....
 
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What often gets overlooked, how Amazing it is that, during Reggie's Illustrious career (both at UM & in the NFL) he shared time with a UM HOFer (Santana) & a NFL HOFer (Harrison) and STILL accomplished what he did....(and Santana was just a notch below NFL HOF status)
 
My vote would go to Andre Johnson. Never in the history of NFL has there been a receiver with his production and stats play his entire career with trash qb's.

Calvin Johnson was voted into the HOF his first year of eligibility and rightfully so. I think everybody recognizes he played for a bad team and was still top 3 receiver every year until he retired. He retired in his prime and played most of his prime years with Matt Stafford throwing him the ball. Not too bad, right? His first 2 years he had Jon Kitna as the qb. Andre Johnson's career numbers are even better than Calvin's with exception of TD's

Now look at Andre's qbs for his prime years. David Carr, Matt Schaub, Sage Rosenfels, TJ Yates, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Case Keenum, Ryan Mallet. Yes, these are his starting and back up qb's for the Texans. Makes me sick to my stomach. He was out of his prime by the time he was traded to the Colts and only had Andrew Luck for half the season that one year due to Luck's injury.

Larry Fitzgerald, who is sure fire HOF with ridiculous stats had the likes of Kurt Warner, Carson Palmer, and now Kyler Murray. Julio Jones has Matt Ryan. Sure, he is overrated, but still much better than any qb Andre had.

My point is that elite NFL receivers on bad teams are acknowledged by fans, media, etc... of having terrible qb's, even if their qb's were not that bad. This is taken into consideration when judging their place in history after they retire. I think Andre is certainly deserving of this consideration
 
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Wayne, Andre, Hester in. Wayne is up first. Vince will have the toughest time.
 
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