OT: The Last Dance

[Dghustla]

You have a lot of tolerance or boredom to engage with Lebronites. It's a different ******* game today. Perimeter rules changed almost everything.

Exactly man! Can’t even do it...

 

[Dghustla]

You're completely lost in this discussion. You think the greatest midrange shooter in the history of the game couldn't develop into a better 3 pt shooter, and if he relied on it more the results would be similar to Westbrook or Wade? LMAO. Do you realize that MJ was a career 83% free throw shooter? What does LBJ & Harden shoot from the free throw line? For his career MJ avg 1.7 3pt attempts a game. Last 3 seasons Harden shot 10+ threes a game. Just use common sense and your brain for a second, and think about how much better Mikes 3 pt percentage & scoring would become if he relied more on the 3 pt shot, and had access to advanced analytics?

Also finally just because he wasn't the primary initiator of his team's Offense doesn't mean he didn't have the ability. Before Pippen developed into one of the best point forwards in history, Mike avg 8 assists in one season. Imagine how many assists he could avg if he too had the ball in his hands 80-90 % of the time like LBJ & Harden? The main pt though that you need to understand is that Mike has the highest ppg avg despite predominantly playing in the toughest decade of defensive basketball in NBA history. Out of all of the decades in NBA history the 90's had the lowest team scoring avg. That's why it's easy to project in order for Mike to avg 50 in today's NBA he would never have to shoot more than 30 times a game. All he would have to do is adapt & adjust his game, which he's shown throughout his career that he's capable of doing.

Bruh don’t do it to yourself... Anyone who is trying to argue that KD is a better than MJ isn’t worth your brain power.

 

[LuCane]

I saw an article that highlighted this. "5 REASONS MJ WOULD BE A SUPERSTAR IN TODAY'S GAME"


Basically just said he would have worked just as hard on his 3 point shot as hit turn around mid game. Which makes sense. Mike wasn't the best 3 guy, but NO ONE was shooting threes.

Objectively, he might go to the line 182 times a game.

I kid.

One thing younger people, especially Lebronites, fail to realize is one of MJ's best skills was actually his footwork. Kobe's most genius move was mirroring it. You can see it in those post games or even when they got "stuck" in the lane. Less floaters. More footwork. And, you don't really know that at any deep level by watching guys after Kobe. You just don't see footwork like that as often now because players have more access to straight lines.

Straight lines? Yep. Ya know, because you can't guard perimeter players. Go out to the park. Really athletic, good basketball players rarely use a f'in pivot now. It's wild. Growing up, if I was lucky to beat my defender at the top of the key, I still had two hands on my hips, probably got body checked and sometimes had to use a pivot just to make a play. Just a different style of game. It's not to say Lebron wouldn't have dominated in that era at all. He would have needed someone to improve his footwork, which I have no doubt he would have. It's just to say it's different when you can bee line to the rim more often.

 

[Turnoverchaincane]

dude.. space jam was 1996.. wheaties box was 91. Bulls didn't win a championship til 91. If you didn't start watching the NBA til 1990, why is it inconceivable that I didn't know who he was til then either? Until then he had only won one league mvp.. He may have been known to NBA or basketball fans but he didn't become otherwordly until the 90-91 season.

What you talking bout , Willis? If you were fan of sports. You had to know who MJ was. Every like minded sports fan was watching sports center back then and if you did. They talked about MJ alot. And for good reason. It was dam near impossible to not know who he was. Even if you didn't like or watch the NBA. Ask yourself if you knee who Magic Johnson was or Larry Bird? If you say you knew who they were. Then you knew who MJ was.

Go Canes!!!!!

 

[305to954]

You're completely lost in this discussion. You think the greatest midrange shooter in the history of the game couldn't develop into a better 3 pt shooter, and if he relied on it more the results would be similar to Westbrook or Wade? LMAO. Do you realize that MJ was a career 83% free throw shooter? What does LBJ & Harden shoot from the free throw line? For his career MJ avg 1.7 3pt attempts a game. Last 3 seasons Harden shot 10+ threes a game. Just use common sense and your brain for a second, and think about how much better Mikes 3 pt percentage & scoring would become if he relied more on the 3 pt shot, and had access to advanced analytics?

Also finally just because he wasn't the primary initiator of his team's Offense doesn't mean he didn't have the ability. Before Pippen developed into one of the best point forwards in history, Mike avg 8 assists in one season. Imagine how many assists he could avg if he too had the ball in his hands 80-90 % of the time like LBJ & Harden? The main pt though that you need to understand is that Mike has the highest ppg avg despite predominantly playing in the toughest decade of defensive basketball in NBA history. Out of all of the decades in NBA history the 90's had the lowest team scoring avg. That's why it's easy to project in order for Mike to avg 50 in today's NBA he would never have to shoot more than 30 times a game. All he would have to do is adapt & adjust his game, which he's shown throughout his career that he's capable of doing.

the style of play was just different in the 90s and was more conducive and geared to post play and mid range play.

D Wade was one of the most deadly mid range 2 guards to play and never develop deep range...demar Derozan same **** but never developed that outside range..after Mike it’s Kobe and Durant as far as midrange with combination of ball handling goes and if you think Mike was wayyy more deadly from that area then those two u just don’t know ball.. as for the beard, Harden takes and hits contested 3s. His 3s are not all wide open and still hits at a great clip..MJ would never rely on taking those contested 3pt shots.

y’all hypothetically making mj into a player he never was. All this “imagine if“ none sense kills me lol... He didnt dominate the ball because that wasn’t his game. Same with MJs clone Kobe. When you have scorers like that the best thing to do is get them off the ball so defenses can’t key on them every possession. Hence why Harden struggles so much in the playoffs without another primary ball handler that allows the D to key on him every possession. Even in his era he was never a great 3 pt shooter. if he takes more 3s guess what happens? His efficiency takes a hit...and then y’all pretend defenses wouldn’t adjust to him and take the ball out his hands by Zoning, doubling and runnin traps at him, the same as they do when KD and harden get going...so instead of tryna make Mike a whole different player then what he was, take his game for what it was and stick it in todays era..if MJ is taking 25 FGas a game (Which is high even for today), he easily averaging 35-37 a game...that’s still all time great for one of the goats...there is absolutely no offensive system that would allow one player average 50 in today’s game..that’s why only one player ever did it and that was wilt in the 60s and 70s and he did that because athletically and from a size standpoint nobody was close to his level. In today game that wouldnt be that case for MJ. But that’s the thing ppl do with MJ, dude is so mythical to y’all that ppl sayin MJ would ave 36-38 points isn’t enough y’all gotta go for 50 lmao..as tho the man gonna shoot 70% from the floor as a wing, shoot 35 plus times a night and get to the line 12-18 times..

 

[305to954]

Objectively, he might go to the line 182 times a game.

I kid.

One thing younger people, especially Lebronites, fail to realize is one of MJ's best skills was actually his footwork. Kobe's most genius move was mirroring it. You can see it in those post games or even when they got "stuck" in the lane. Less floaters. More footwork. And, you don't really know that at any deep level by watching guys after Kobe. You just don't see footwork like that as often now because players have more access to straight lines.

Straight lines? Yep. Ya know, because you can't guard perimeter players. Go out to the park. Really athletic, good basketball players rarely use a f'in pivot now. It's wild. Growing up, if I was lucky to beat my defender at the top of the key, I still had two hands on my hips, probably got body checked and sometimes had to use a pivot just to make a play. Just a different style of game. It's not to say Lebron wouldn't have dominated in that era at all. He would have needed someone to improve his footwork, which I have no doubt he would have. It's just to say it's different when you can bee line to the rim more often.

Where’d you play ball?

 

[LuCane]

Where’d you play ball?

Just ****** HS ball. My job was to get in the lane and pass. A lot. I learned to shoot (literally changed my shot and copied Steve Nash's) in college, but it was too late to do anything useful. Not that anything beyond HS would have happened, but would have been nice to shoot more.

 

[305to954]

What you talking bout , Willis? If you were fan of sports. You had to know who MJ was. Every like minded sports fan was watching sports center back then and if you did. They talked about MJ alot. And for good reason. It was dam near impossible to not know who he was. Even if you didn't like or watch the NBA. Ask yourself if you knee who Magic Johnson was or Larry Bird? If you say you knew who they were. Then you knew who MJ was.

Go Canes!!!!!

Ppl outside of basketball who didn’t follow sports likely didn’t really know MJ until the 90s..then especially after Barcelona MJ became global. But in the 80s it was Bird, magic, Malone, Kareem as the faces of the league. **** even Hakeem in the mid 80s because he had Houston in the finals..if your were a sports/basketball fan you knew of MJ..but he didn’t truly become black Jesus until the 90s

 

[Garnacho]

MJ sitting back, sipping whiskey, and talking trash is 1000000x better than watching Lebron play basketball

 

[305to954]

Just ****** HS ball. My job was to get in the lane and pass. A lot. I learned to shoot (literally changed my shot and copied Steve Nash's) in college, but it was too late to do anything useful. Not that anything beyond HS would have happened, but would have been nice to shoot more.

Lol fair enough. And u right about MJs foot work in the mid post. He and Kobe was the greatest at from a wing standpoin. But a young cat whose developing into that is Jay Tatum

 

[Turnoverchaincane]

Ppl outside of basketball who didn’t follow sports likely didn’t really know MJ until the 90s..then especially after Barcelona MJ became global. But in the 80s it was Bird, magic, Malone, Kareem as the faces of the league. **** even Hakeem in the mid 80s because he had Houston in the finals..if your were a sports/basketball fan you knew of MJ..but he didn’t truly become black Jesus until the 90s

True but if you were watching sports center. You knew who he was and I think every sports fan was watching SC back then.

Go Canes!!

 

[LuCane]

Lol fair enough. And u right about MJs foot work in the mid post. He and Kobe was the greatest at from a wing standpoin. But a young cat whose developing into that is Jay Tatum

I'm curious to see his next evolution. He's a lot like Kobe (not as good, obviously) in a lot of ways. The game is just setup differently so he's gonna shoot more 3s. Think he almost doubled his 3s attempted this year. Haven't looked at stats since they stopped playing. He was putting up numbers.

 

[305to954]

MJ sitting back, sipping whiskey, and talking trash is 1000000x better than watching Lebron play basketball

Lmao why ppl luv hating then bringing lebron into it..y’all act like lebron ever disrespectEd Mike..****** was on his podcast the other day praising mj,.why MJ fans so defensive with Lebron

 

[305to954]

True but if you were watching sports center. You knew who he was and I think every sports fan was watching SC back then.

Go Canes!!

I was barely a sperm cell then. like said if u were a sports fan u knew was in the if 80s..but he wasn’t black Jesus until the 90s

 

[305to954]

I'm curious to see his next evolution. He's a lot like Kobe (not as good, obviously) in a lot of ways. The game is just setup differently so he's gonna shoot more 3s. Think he almost doubled his 3s attempted this year. Haven't looked at stats since they stopped playing. He was putting up numbers.

at the same age Kobe was better. But Tatum ceiling imo might be higher...does that mean he’s gonna reach it, probably not because most players won’t work as hard as a guy kobe and have that drive to keep pushin..Kids only 22 and grew 2 inches since he came in. Legit 6’9

 

[Trafficante]

Objectively, he might go to the line 182 times a game.

I kid.

One thing younger people, especially Lebronites, fail to realize is one of MJ's best skills was actually his footwork. Kobe's most genius move was mirroring it. You can see it in those post games or even when they got "stuck" in the lane. Less floaters. More footwork. And, you don't really know that at any deep level by watching guys after Kobe. You just don't see footwork like that as often now because players have more access to straight lines.

Straight lines? Yep. Ya know, because you can't guard perimeter players. Go out to the park. Really athletic, good basketball players rarely use a f'in pivot now. It's wild. Growing up, if I was lucky to beat my defender at the top of the key, I still had two hands on my hips, probably got body checked and sometimes had to use a pivot just to make a play. Just a different style of game. It's not to say Lebron wouldn't have dominated in that era at all. He would have needed someone to improve his footwork, which I have no doubt he would have. It's just to say it's different when you can bee line to the rim more often.

The problem with that is, even in today's era that is soft as Charmin, and LBJ being the most physically imposing player in the game, he still doesn't impose his will and attack the basket nearly as much as he should. So why would anyone think he could easily add an element to his game like low post footwork that he's never possessed playing in the toughest defensive era in history? I think you're assuming a lot if you think he could easily adjust and dominate that era. Mike's will to win is the primary reason why he would be able to adjust to any era. LBJ simply does not have that same type of will. He plays his game regardless and doesn't really deviate from that much.

 

[305to954]

The problem with that is, even in today's era that is soft as Charmin, and LBJ is the most physically imposing player in the game, he still doesn't impose his will and attack the basket nearly as much as he should. So why would anyone think he could easily add an element to his game like low post footwork that he's never possessed playing in the toughest defensive era in history? I think you're assuming a lot if you think he could easily adjust and dominate that era. Mike's will to win is the primary reason why he would be able to adjust to any era. LBJ simply does not have that same type of will. He plays his game regardless and doesn't really deviate from that much.

MJ and lebron are not the same type of players...the only comparison to MJ as far as styles is Kobe..has nothing to do with will. The problem is most project MJ onto lbj..”oh MJ would’ve done this or MJ wouldn’t have passed the ball”.. just appreciate both..skip Bayless got y’all fooled bih

 

[LuCane]

The problem with that is, even in today's era that is soft as Charmin, and LBJ is the most physically imposing player in the game, he still doesn't impose his will and attack the basket nearly as much as he should. So why would anyone think he could easily add an element to his game like low post footwork that he's never possessed playing in the toughest defensive era in history? I think you're assuming a lot if you think he could easily adjust and dominate that era. Mike's will to win is the primary reason why he would be able to adjust to any era. LBJ simply does not have that same type of will. He plays his game regardless and doesn't really deviate from that much.

Listen, man. I'm a 30+ year Bulls fan and Michael Jordan helped mold competitiveness for my life. Ha. On top of it, I'm not a fan of LBJ's personality and it didn't help he played for the Heat. But, the guy is an exceptional athlete, skilled, and works pretty hard. His shot was pure **** and it's gotten better. In an era that valued footwork a ton more, it's fair to say he would have at least developed it more. Just like I think it's fair to say MJ was likely to have evolved his 3PT shot sooner in our current environment.

 

[Trafficante]

Listen, man. I'm a 30+ year Bulls fan and Michael Jordan personally modeled competitiveness for my life. Ha. On top of it, I'm not a fan of LBJ's personality and it didn't help he played for the Heat. But, the guy is an exceptional athlete, skilled, and works pretty hard. His shot was pure **** and it's gotten better. In an era that valued footwork a ton more, it's fair to say he would have at least developed it more. Just like I think it's fair to say MJ was likely to have evolved his 3PT shot sooner in our current environment.

I agree partially. Yes, he's a great athlete. Yes, he works hard. But that's simply not enough. Despite the fact that he's improved his shot since 1st entering the league he's still not a great shooter. As evidenced by his horrendous free throw shooting. To become a great low post scorer with footwork, you have to rely heavily on the pull up jump shot. His stroke is not pure enough for him to ever develop into that. Even in this era he's tried to incorporate a low post game into his ****nal, and it hasn't really worked. But regardless of his skillset or the era that he plays in the pt that I was making was that it is not in his nature or mentality to relentlessly attack in the same way that MJ or Kobe did. Here's him back in 2011 trying to learn footwork from the greatest low post scorer and top 10 player in history Hakeem Olajuwon.

 

[Trafficante]

MJ and lebron are not the same type of players...the only comparison to MJ as far as styles is Kobe..has nothing to do with will. The problem is most project MJ onto lbj..”oh MJ would’ve done this or MJ wouldn’t have passed the ball”.. just appreciate both..skip Bayless got y’all fooled bih

You can thank all of the Lebron Stans for that. And it has EVERYTHING to do with will. One guy does whatever it takes to win, and goes 6-0 in the Finals. While the other pads stats, goes 3-6, and routinely folds under pressure. I was addressing whether LBJ could develop a low post game and dominate the 90's. If you had to respond to that question, and your life depended on it, you and I both know you would answer with a resounding No. Stop lying to yourself, and quit the charade. You're not fooling anyone