OT: Mass Shooting at Douglas High School

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I reread it twice and you didn't say anything on how to stop this. I read why you think it happens but nothing on how to prevent it. Also since you blame social media, media etc, why haven't other 1st world countries had a bunch of school shooters or any?

If I had a definitive solution I'd propose it, but I don't think one exists. There will always be crazies looking to inflict damage and suffering onto innocent people, we'll never rid that from society. But I think there are certainly ways to fix this.

I could probably rant for days but I'll try to make it concise. I think I addressed why I believe we've seen a pickup in this in my last post. So how do we prevent this?

1) It starts at home with strong parenting and a stable, supportive home life. Something like 35% of American kids live in single parent households, another 10-15% live with only one birth parent and a step parent. I would call that out as a serious issue and not conducive to raising a healthy child. It's hard for me to comment without having kids yet, but parents need to be active, supportive, honest and engaged with their kids to help develop their self-esteem and personal security as they grow up. Parents/Schools/etc. need to teach kids from a young age that it's ok to fail, you're not always going to get your way (this is what I asserted that we now live in a victim culture where everything that goes wrong is always someone else's fault, it transcends political party), that it's ok to acknowledge your imperfections. We can't hide kids them from the realities of life.

2) Open and honest acceptance of mental illness in society. There is still a stigma attached to it where there shouldn't be. Taking your child to get therapy shouldn't be embarrassing. Having on sight school psychologists should be a must. I feel like too often parents will either choose to ignore the warning signs in certain kids or rely simply on dangerous meds to "change" their kids behavior. Kids shouldn't be popping anti depressants/adderall/etc. to control their moods except in SEVERE cases, that **** is nuts.

3) Get kids the **** out social media/video games/etc. Kids can barely interact anymore. Get them outside, playing sports, interacting with each other.
 
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we protect our govt buildings and federal reserve banks with armed guards and metal detectors.

Why can’t we protect our children as well as we protect our politicians and money?

(Lifted from Austin Peterson. Sort of)

You're afraid of the government taking your guns, but you want armed federal officers on every corner?
 
Step 1 Close gun show loopholes.
Step 2 Offer no questions asked gun buyback programs. These are widely popular for people who have inherited guns they don't even know how to use and do not store properly. Or for people who just don't want guns in their home. A radio station in my hometown runs an event called kicks for guns and gives away free shoes for any weapon turned in. They've collected over 10,000 unwanted firearms already.
Step 3 Mandatory gun registration 5 year grace period. No cost.
Step 4 Severe penalties for anyone being caught with an unregistered weapon.

These are not radical burdens placed on law abiding citizens. These are all common sense solutions. Even if all these steps saved 5% of gun suicides/homicides a year that's 1600 lives. We've spent trillions of dollars, 17 years, and tens of thousands of lives avenging the 2000+ twin tower deaths yet we do nothing about gun violence at home but pray.
political sollygism
 
Following Parkland school shooting, Adam Putnam postpones his insane idea to relax Florida gun background checks
Posted By Colin Wolf on Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 3:18 pm

  • Adam Putnam | image via Fresh From Florida
Less than 24 hours after a 19-year-old gunman killed 17 classmates and teachers at a South Florida high school, agriculture commissioner Adam Putnam decided maybe it's not a good idea to vote on a provision that would've relaxed background checks for gun owners.

Putnam, a Republican candidate for Florida governor and a "proud NRA sellout," filed the provision earlier this month, burying it at the very end of a 114-page bill that mostly dealt with routine business like oyster farming and liquified gas.

The provision, which was first discovered by Tampa Bay Times reporter Steve Bousquet, is designed to dilute the state's background-check laws to the point where anyone who files an incomplete background-check form can still obtain concealed-carry permit.

Essentially, Putnam's provision would give the Department of Agriculture 90 days after receiving a concealed weapons application to issue a permit, even "if the department has not acquired final disposition or proof of restoration of civil and firearm rights, or confirmation that clarifying records are not available."


This would be great news for say, a domestic abuser, looking to get a concealed carry permit. However, Bousquet tweeted this afternoon that Putnam has postponed action on the provision, but hasn't withdrawn it.
 
You're afraid of the government taking your guns, but you want armed federal officers on every corner?

Where did I say that? You’re making up a straw man argument.

There is one sro at most campuses. How about base it on number of students so larger campuses have more sros?

Also, metal detectors?
 
More with respect to alleged lack of gun violence in Europe:

This 2010 article points out that they had some bad mass shootings in Europe, where there are very strict gun control laws. (I acknowledge that part of his argument that worst mass school shooting was in Germany is out-of-date--Sandy Hook now surpasses with 26). Still, there have been some bad mass shootings in areas of Europe with strict gun laws.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxn...-multiple-victim-public-shootings-europe.html

If you have data to challenge this, bring it on, please.

Lott has also suggested that more liberal concealed carry would lead to a safer society. His research and data are not without criticism, nor support. It is controversial, but he might be right. I said, "might."
 
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Where did I say that? You’re making up a straw man argument.

There is one sro at most campuses. How about base it on number of students so larger campuses have more sros?

Also, metal detectors?

Schools, hospitals, movie theaters, grocery stores, government buildings. Most americans have at least 5-10 of these buildings within a 15 minute walk.
 
No I am not "this stupid." In fact if you actually took more than 5 seconds to read what I wrote, I specifically addressed their independent spending. YOU were the one who specifically claimed candidates are "literally being bought by the NRA", despite that having no real basis in reality. I don't know what they are teaching you at UM, but when I hear someone claim candidates are literally being bought, one would think looking at direct donations to candidates would be a wise metric to look out.

Most of the candidates you listed are getting a couple grand in contributions per year on average. Certainly not pocket change, but hardly earth shattering amounts and hardly the only independent organization, regardless of political affiliation, that is contributing heavily to candidates. Calling me stupid doesn't change that, you angry little guy.

Correct those are facts on nra contributions. The problem is the vigor in which gun owners vote and politicians crave power more than life.
The same for the left.
Yes we.need to have a mental health overhaul.
But people will fall through the cracks who are not doagnosed and what’s left is a very deadly weapon that is very easy to get.
I’m not saying get rid of them so don’t start comparing apples to oranges.
I also think that parenting has failed not only some of these kids but especially the inner city.
Most gun deaths are caused in these areas. And it upsets rural gun owners who live in peaceful cities where almost everyone has a gun and then people say ban all guns.
As a paradox it upsets inner city families who are good people and live in a war zone because of the accessibility of guns especially when stray bullets kill kids. and they get even more upset when gun laws are discussed only when tragedy strikes a white neighborhood.
All sides have to look in the mirror.
Also there is a narrative that most guns in the inner city are stolen from cars or burglary. That is also false. They are bought legally then sold with a mark up. That’s why that cheap semi auto smith and Wesson sigma and high points are the most confiscated guns. They’re cheap as ****. I’m sure in my neighborhood no respectable gun owner would buy those things.
Lastly I’m a big nature video guy.
Last year I sat with my 5 year old twins and watched big cat week.
I sat there watching a video about a sole lioness who raised her cubs isolated from the pride. At 2 years old the cubs were ready to leave and be independent. I thought about that and found it amazing. Yet here we are and I know that most 18 year olds could not survive On their own.
Yes they have instincts but a cub not raised by a mother will not know how hunt.
My wife was a school nurse at the time and she told me about the single moms out there that drop theire kids off before school and then pick them up at after school care. Elementary school kids with 5 days a week almost 12 hrs a day without parenting with out love and nurturing.
Some really sad sh.t right there. And then we wonder what happens to these kids and why they can’t function in society or be independent.
100 years ago when you were 18 you better have had your boots laced right or you weren’t making it. Parenting was more strict and a lot of tough love but at least hey were there.
Parenting , mental health, community awareness, making sure some weapons are restricted but available to sane responsible people and we will see a decrease. Unfortunately don’t see parenting getting better and gun laws will never pass. Mental illness will take years of legislation to get it right.
We need a multi pronged effort cause a lot needs to be fixed. What we don’t need are closed mindsets that won’t listen to educated counterpoints.
 
I figured I’d use a Fox News affiliate to lessen the attacks on the source.

http://myfox8.com/2018/02/15/florid...kolas-cruz-linked-to-white-nationalist-group/

Florida school shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz was allegedly a member of a white nationalist group and participated in paramilitary drills, according to ADL.

Jordan Jereb, the leader of white supremacist group Republic of Florida, said Cruz was associated with the organization and participated in one or more training exercises.

The group describes itself as a “white civil rights organization fight for white identitarian politics.”
There's now a Tallahassee Democrat article saying there's no evidence of this link. It is apparently this nut case Jereb trying to claim him. It's not even clear Jereb heads a real organization at all. I'll try to find the article.


HERE IT IS:

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...ist-militia-tallahassee-leader-say/341751002/

Weird thing is, the Democrat article says the neo-**** actually talked to the ADL. During my time, we never talked to them, we put infiltrators into the National Socialist White People's Party (the former American **** Party) instead. I doubt this is much of a neo-****, White Nationalist organization.
 
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More with respect to alleged lack of gun violence in Europe:

This 2010 article points out that they had some bad mass shootings in Europe, where there are very strict gun control laws. (I acknowledge that part of his argument that worst mass school shooting was in Germany is out-of-date--Sandy Hook now surpasses with 26). Still, there have been some bad mass shootings in areas of Europe with strict gun laws.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxn...-multiple-victim-public-shootings-europe.html

If you have data to challenge this, bring it on, please.

Lott has also suggested that more liberal concealed carry would lead to a safer society. His research and data are not without criticism, nor support. It is controversial, but he might be right. I said, "might."




The US makes up 5% of the worlds populations but accounts for 31% of global mass shooters.
 

https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html

https://www.ksat.com/news/us-has-the-most-public-mass-shooters-in-the-world-study-shows

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604

How the US compares: The number of gun murders per capita in the US in 2012 - the most recent year for comparable statistics - was nearly 30 times that in the UK, at 2.9 per 100,000 compared with just 0.1.

Of all the murders in the US in 2012, 60% were by firearm compared with 31% in Canada, 18.2% in Australia, and just 10% in the UK.



So many people die annually from gunfire in the US that the death toll between 1968 and 2011 eclipses all wars ever fought by the country. According to research by Politifact, there were about 1.4 million firearm deaths in that period, compared with 1.2 million US deaths in every conflict from the War of Independence to Iraq.

I'M GOING TO REPEAT THAT AGAIN

So many people die annually from gunfire in the US that the death toll between 1968 and 2011 eclipses all wars ever fought by the country. According to research by Politifact, there were about 1.4 million firearm deaths in that period, compared with 1.2 million US deaths in every conflict from the War of Independence to Iraq.

This is my last post on this thread. I hope this provides some perspective of the real threats to Americans.
 
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There's now a Tallahassee Democrat article saying there's no evidence of this link. It is apparently this nut case Jereb trying to claim him. It's not even clear Jereb heads a real organization at all. I'll try to find the article.


HERE IT IS:

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/ne...ist-militia-tallahassee-leader-say/341751002/
I saw that as well, just now. The ONLY reason I posted it was to show there was zero evidence this kid was linked to Democrats or liberals. In fact, I even said I don’t know if he’s a trump supporter - wearing a hat is not proof to me. I have zero belief this was a political statement. This was misplaced anger by a near post-teen. Even listening to his lawyer today illustrated that this kid just made a huge mistake. He’s not insane. And, that’s part of the idiocy: this kid did not need to have a gun, but there were no mechanisms to stop him.

Gun-Laws-vs-Gun-Deaths--A05.png
 
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And when I say "self-inflicted", it's my understanding a high percentage are deliberate, i.e., suicides.

and you would be correct, if you guys are gonna conduct an educated argument somebody needs to put the correct info out there, i heard the FBI keeps it available on their website. I know a couple things for sure, they have AR's under the "long gun" catagory, more people are actually killed with knifes than AR's, less than 1% for AR's, thats from a class i took, pistols make up a huge percent, and a huge percent of those are suicide like The Matador said. I'm a gun owner, **** everybody in Texas is, most have several, alot have been handed down through generations, i have both my grandpa's guns that are early 1900's, and all the guns my dad had. Obama was the best thing for guns in the history of America, FACT, of coarse he planned it the other way, then he went for the ammo, starting the worst ammo frenzy the country had ever seen, **** i immediately spent 5k on ammo because knowbody knew what was gonna happen. Also tons of folks here load their own, so there's that. They need to look deeper before selling a gun to people, that will help although very little imo. You can look at these other countries all you want, they are not America or anything even close, if you just did a complete Pelosi and stopped selling guns all together, to anybody, the problem would still exist. To all the anti-gun guys, all i can tell you is you better go get yourself a damm gun, because if and when it gets down to the nut cuttin, the nitty gritty, you may need it, the bad guys will always have guns, NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE THAT, all you can do is protect yourself and your family. If you think somebody is gonna wave a magic wand and take all the guns away from criminals your nuts
 
https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html

https://www.ksat.com/news/us-has-the-most-public-mass-shooters-in-the-world-study-shows

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604

How the US compares: The number of gun murders per capita in the US in 2012 - the most recent year for comparable statistics - was nearly 30 times that in the UK, at 2.9 per 100,000 compared with just 0.1.

Of all the murders in the US in 2012, 60% were by firearm compared with 31% in Canada, 18.2% in Australia, and just 10% in the UK.



So many people die annually from gunfire in the US that the death toll between 1968 and 2011 eclipses all wars ever fought by the country. According to research by Politifact, there were about 1.4 million firearm deaths in that period, compared with 1.2 million US deaths in every conflict from the War of Independence to Iraq.

I'M GOING TO REPEAT THAT AGAIN

So many people die annually from gunfire in the US that the death toll between 1968 and 2011 eclipses all wars ever fought by the country. According to research by Politifact, there were about 1.4 million firearm deaths in that period, compared with 1.2 million US deaths in every conflict from the War of Independence to Iraq.

i read it, both times, you need to take out suicides which is a shytload of your figure. Also, what are you proposing we do sir, i would love to hear it
 
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