NBA OT KNICKS vs Heat

[E1k]

great read.

* I Already told you im a Villanova basketball fan...hence im a Kyle Lowry fan.

Kyle Lowry is routinely fat n out of shape....that's not a heat player. dude took weeks to be allowed on the court.

Lowry brings leadership, toughness. mentorship always liked that about him. Typical north east guard. See Brunson...i can rattle off a bunch of nova guys like that.

But everything was on the decline with him here stat wise. 3 years 85 million for a guy who essentially would be a bench player didnt make sense. he wasnt long term help for jimmy.
The problem was.......Scary Terry looked to be ascending a bit as a player (those proved to be hollow points) so they felt that move was a smooth move since they were losing Lowry anyway.

Terry Rozier has been epicly worse. lol I hate him. I hate his socks, his sneakers, i hate his warmups. He is so **** sorry that at times i felt sorry for him being so sorry. Hes part of the reason the heat were in the play in..he was expected to bne a steady player atleast this dude blew more lay ups than ieve ever seen is a sieve on defense and just wont stop shooting lol.

I think there are different spectrums of heat fans. I see it in reality with my friend groups, barber shop talks, family. And i see it online, heat blogs, and on here and westendzone.

*Theres a grouping that understands whatever tf "Heat culture" means and allows it to play out. Then there is a group that is tired of hearing about it and are a fan of the off szn or "the process" that would like to see more moves and just things to happen with the team which i also get. That group thinks its like a video game and we could just get this or that guy any type of way. That group also thinks the owner goes cheap at times (i get it) but i mean it was a global pandemic and dude is a cruise owner so that 2nd apron an cost of certain things might have played factors.

Me and @DMoney i think fall int hat first group a bit more. We have dealt with this for years alot of the second group were dying to trade tyler herro for guys like bradley beal to bust a move. ( we called Herro being better then)
Picking up Jimmy Butler was even scoffed at. These same heat fans didnt expect us to beat teams in the playoffs as well.
After these two years i dont think anyone should be off limits on the roster for trades...but im also not a "the process" guy because that has done nothing for teams like the 76ers and others. I also think The heat culture thing is even overblown and everything being on Pat Riley as well as Nick and Spo makes alot of these **** decisions.

* The knicks just got the furthest they ever goten in the last 25 years and fired their coach. Theyre main player had his dad on the team as the assistant coach (daddy ball), depending on who they hire as coach their future will go out like a wet fart because they traded away 5 first rounders for Bridges..whos contract is about to come up. And they have Jim Dolan as an owner who mettles. Dude did the exit interviews for the team like hes the coach and he hasnt been around lol They better get my guy Hurley or Jay Wright. lol

Also Long read but i like the debate.

Agreed on most of this..I too have came around and stop putting all of the blame on riley even tho i think he still has alot of say so. But just looking at his history, his philosophy, the way they handled things since the post dwade era just doesn’t seem like him

Or maybe he’s just a changed man and we’re just content with the success we had and now are just cool with being middle of the pack. After 05 when we made the ecf and were gonna beat the pistons until wade got injured, pat could have been like hey just run it back we’re good just gotta be healthy..That mf said *** that and flipped the roster to almost guarantee we have a way better chance at winning it all..I didn’t see that for the jimmy era and the still **** kills me




These are the teams with the most playoff wins the last 5 years marking when we got jimmy, every other team won a ring besides us, all of those front offices made significant improvements to get them over the top besides us. I probably won’t ever forgive them

 

[E1k]

I still love Jimmy, but he never did anything without this front office or “the Culture.”

He’s in his mid-thirties and this is the only franchise that ever won with him up top. They deserve credit, not blame.

The 2019 build around Jimmy was an unqualified success. Now it’s time to rebuild.

Such a baseless argument, we were literally stuck in mediocrity before jimmy chose to come here. He was already an established top10 player, led Minnesota to their only playoff berth since KG and philly probably makes the finals if kawhi doesn’t hit a crazy shot

They deserve credit for getting him of course but saying they don’t deserve blame for us not winning a ring is insane and exactly why they will continue to get away with a mediocre product because they can do no wrong to the fanbase

And yea it was a successful era but i remember the pat riley heat who believed it was championship or bust. Guess they don’t exist anymore

 

[E1k]

kd is ornery and a lil off putting lackadaiacal but this isnt a take i agree with.

if all 3 are healthy they are contending in the east. They literally just need that wing scorer punch which they were expecting from Jimmy. KD can do that with his eyes closed.

The east will be a free for all next year. The pacers are in the finals with Haliburton/ Siakam an a bunch of sh*t right now honestly lol Good coaching, pace pushing and boom. A lot of you dudes couldnt name 4 players on the pacers team 3 months ago. Thats the type of stuff were dealing with in the east.

Lol disagree 100% the pacers just made the conference finals last year and even tho they got swept they gave boston their biggest challenge. If u don’t know the players u gotta watch more, i remember people saying the same **** about us..Its like they cared about names and not what they’re watching

Thinking we’re even close to that team after THREE consecutive playin appearances is pure delusion. We were the 37 win 10th seed bro. The suns led by kd won 36 games, he is not turning us into a real contender. We will be wasting future assets

 

[DMoney]

Such a baseless argument, we were literally stuck in mediocrity before jimmy chose to come here. He was already an established top10 player, led Minnesota to their only playoff berth since KG and philly probably makes the finals if kawhi doesn’t hit a crazy shot

Here is Jimmy's career before Miami:

First round exit
Second round exit (as a role player who finished 7th in scoring)
First round exit
Second round exit
Missed playoffs
First round exit
First round exit
Second round exit (two of his teammates were All-Stars, he was not)

In five years at Miami, he made the Eastern Conference Finals three times and the Finals twice.

We also got bounced in the first round twice. The first time, Jimmy averaged 14.5 points on 29% shooting. The second time, he was hurt and didn't play a game.

It's absurd to say Miami failed Jimmy by not getting him a ring. They gave him all of the best years of his career.

 

[DMoney]

Yall will find out up close & personal with your own eyes the same things Brooklyn & Phoenix found out.

KD is a passive beta, he's hit the wall & is not ever going to lead a team to the NBA finals at this stage in his career.

He's at his best when he's the #2 guy in the passenger seat, but in terms of being the primary catalyst & expecting him to lift/carry your franchise, those days are long gone my friend. He's the most talented non-leader in NBA history. Actually, I'd argue he has no leadership skills whatsoever & in this juncture of his career he's not going to take hard Coaching under any circumstances.

What makes him such a difficult player to deal with is that he's not volatile, he doesn't throw fits & disrupt the locker room when things inevitably go bad. He just checks out & doesn't say anything. His apathy is more cancerous to your team's success than having a malcontent who shakes things up.

Trust & believe, the moment Spoe gets to barking at him, KD will not respond well, in fact, he won't respond at all; he'll simply shut it down & retreat back into "I just wanna hoop" mode. He'll put up some nice efficient numbers & yall will get swept in the 1st round of the playoffs. And Heat fans will be scratching their heads wondering what went wrong?

Yall will get KD'd.

#DontListenToMeNow
#ButYoullBelieveMeLaterOn

To me, the leaders of the Heat are Spo and Riley. Brooklyn and Phoenix were rudderless organizations. I don't disagree with you on Durant's leadership, but he's still a smart guy who cares about basketball. He's not a cancer.

Our biggest need is an alpha scorer. Durant can still do that. Herro falls into a more natural #2 scorer role. It will be very difficult to defend two of the best shooters in the league who are both over 6'5 and can handle. Bam can focus on being a rich man's Draymond and the best defender in the league. The pieces fit.

Does that mean we win a ring? Probably not. But we'd be a threat to come out of the East, and after that anything can happen.

 

[Trafficante]

Pure facts.

KD hightailed it out of OKC because he couldn't deal with Russ's hyper-aggressive personality, which is understandable because Russ can be a lot to handle lol. But no doubt about it, he was the biggest beneficiary in joining the Warriors system. Steph Curry saved his legacy. Without Steph, KD would be looked at completely different in the eyes of NBA fans & media alike.

It's inexplicable the precipitous drop his career took after leaving GS. He was given the keys to two franchises & paired with multiple All-Star supporting cast teammates in both circumstances. Sticking with Chucks analogy, he just couldn't drive the Bus. He didn't crash it, he simply just pulled over, got out & walked in both instances.

Because he simply doesn't have it mentally. He's never dealt well with the pressure of leadership. And in the NBA it's even more tense IMO, because while NFL QB's similarly have to deal with intense pressure of the leadership, they still have 52 other Men & a whole host of Coaches that will usually take at least some part of the blame for shortcomings; but in the NBA, it's ALL on the Superstar. Everything lives & dies with that #1 guy & if it doesn't work out everybody is looking at him for the answers.

KD has never been comfortable in that role & every time he was given the reigns to prove otherwise, he went full speed ahead in the opposite direction.

Exactly, & what you've highlighted in this thread applies to LBJ as well because he helped to launch the super-team era. This generation of NBA players are mentally weak, & there's a multitude of reasons for that. This is what leadership & mental toughness is supposed to look like:

 

[E1k]

Here is Jimmy's career before Miami:

First round exit
Second round exit (as a role player who finished 7th in scoring)
First round exit
Second round exit
Missed playoffs
First round exit
First round exit
Second round exit (two of his teammates were All-Stars, he was not)

In five years at Miami, he made the Eastern Conference Finals three times and the Finals twice.

We also got bounced in the first round twice. The first time, Jimmy averaged 14.5 points on 29% shooting. The second time, he was hurt and didn't play a game.

It's absurd to say Miami failed Jimmy by not getting him a ring. They gave him all of the best years of his career.

Don’t know what point you’re making by posting jimmys career as if this is a jimmy vs the heat debate

Also first round series we lost with jimmy which was the short covid season, one of the 3 off seasons the heat did absolutely NOTHING to improve the roster.

Maybe you think im saying they failed an individual player when i say they failed in the jimmy butler era. No they failed everyone by being complacent and not going all in to win a ring.

I remember when it was championship or bust now we’re cool..


One simple yes or no question, do you think the heat did enough to win a championship in the jimmy butler era?

 

[MoneybaggCANES]

KNICKS TEARS:

 

[Memnon]

Welp... So much for the KD sweepstakes

 

[gogeta4]

Don’t know what point you’re making by posting jimmys career as if this is a jimmy vs the heat debate

Also first round series we lost with jimmy which was the short covid season, one of the 3 off seasons the heat did absolutely NOTHING to improve the roster.

Maybe you think im saying they failed an individual player when i say they failed in the jimmy butler era. No they failed everyone by being complacent and not going all in to win a ring.

I remember when it was championship or bust now we’re cool..
View attachment 327160

One simple yes or no question, do you think the heat did enough to win a championship in the jimmy butler era?

im late but ont he bolded they made it to two championship finals so yes

 

[E1k]

im late but ont he bolded they made it to two championship finals so yes

They made it because jimmy turned into a top5 player in the league when the playoffs started.It’s championship or bust and they did the bare minimum when we had legit chances to win, that’s a failure to me

And once upon a time pat riley would agree lol, idk what happened to him these days

 

[gogeta4]

They made it because jimmy turned into a top5 player in the league when the playoffs started.It’s championship or bust and they did the bare minimum when we had legit chances to win, that’s a failure to me

And once upon a time pat riley would agree lol, idk what happened to him these days

I expect someone who makes money like this to play like a top 10 player the whole year....also just not when the playoffs started.

Butler signs 4-year, $184M extension with Heat

Jimmy Butler has signed a four-year, $184 million extension that will keep him with the Heat through the 2025-26 season.

www.espn.com

Us Heat fans are extremely spoiled.

 

[E1k]

I expect someone who makes money like this to play like a top 10 player the whole year....also just not when the playoffs started.

Butler signs 4-year, $184M extension with Heat

Jimmy Butler has signed a four-year, $184 million extension that will keep him with the Heat through the 2025-26 season.

www.espn.com

Us Heat fans are extremely spoiled.

Thats literally the baseline for any max player, idk why u think that means it should be expected.




Look at the guys he was paid similar to, he led better teams and was way more successful and impactful than 90% of them. Only a few of those players had to carry the offensive load that jimmy had and the heat didn’t do **** to help

So he held his end of the bargain while the front office did nothing b2b years. How people defend that **** is beyond me.

And he literally was an all star/all nba/all nba, top10 in mvp voting majority of his time here and was a top10 player in every regular season metric here. This notion that he didn’t try in the regular season is such bull**** and overblown mainly by the national media, he just became a volume scorer in the playoffs thats all that changed. He had to do that because we literally had no other chance to win if he didn’t.

We saw in 2020 it was a very balanced team we had another star creator with dragic, 5 years later the heat STILL have not gotten a guy that good. If they did with jimmy we would have a championship.

And man miss me with that “spoiled ****”, wanting the front office to go all in on a championship contender is not being spoiled it’s literally the bare minimum

We talk all this heat culture standard **** then when people say hey we have a contender can u please do something to improve the roster so we can get over the hump for a CHAMPIONSHIP its aww yall are so spoiled lmao. Yall don’t realize the chokehold the front office has yall in

 

[gogeta4]

Thats literally the baseline for any max player, idk why u think that means it should be expected.


View attachment 327941

Look at the guys he was paid similar to, he led better teams and was way more successful and impactful than 90% of them. Only a few of those players had to carry the offensive load that jimmy had and the heat didn’t do **** to help

So he held his end of the bargain while the front office did nothing b2b years. How people defend that **** is beyond me.

And he literally was an all star/all nba/all nba, top10 in mvp voting majority of his time here and was a top10 player in every regular season metric here. This notion that he didn’t try in the regular season is such bull**** and overblown mainly by the national media, he just became a volume scorer in the playoffs thats all that changed. He had to do that because we literally had no other chance to win if he didn’t.

We saw in 2020 it was a very balanced team we had another star creator with dragic, 5 years later the heat STILL have not gotten a guy that good. If they did with jimmy we would have a championship.

And man miss me with that “spoiled ****”, wanting the front office to go all in on a championship contender is not being spoiled it’s literally the bare minimum

We talk all this heat culture standard **** then when people say hey we have a contender can u please do something to improve the roster so we can get over the hump for a CHAMPIONSHIP its aww yall are so spoiled lmao. Yall don’t realize the chokehold the front office has yall in

The front office doesnt have me in anything. I'm just a realist and knew what they tried to do with cap flexability they had and trades they tried to complete.
He asked for help and asked for Kyle Lowry. Just making moves for the sake of making move sometimes is good for off szn an fan talks but then u end up being the knicks, the suns, the brooklyn nets. Sometimes you develop your guys which clearly has happened.

I think we are spoiled because the heat are a team that goes to the nba finals and still have fans that complain to the hills. championship or bust.


who was the help what players?. like even now who do yall want?.

Video game wise you can get anyone but in reality who do yalll want right now

 

[Memnon]

Now this would be a **** of a pick up for the Heat.

Kuminga would actually fit perfect with Heat Culture because he's a versatile slashing Foward that can get you 25 when needed & is a very good on-ball committed Defender, that can guard 1-4.

This is the type of move that the Heat should be looking to make, not wasting yall time on a headcase like Durant.

 

[Memnon]

 

[E1k]

The front office doesnt have me in anything. I'm just a realist and knew what they tried to do with cap flexability they had and trades they tried to complete.
He asked for help and asked for Kyle Lowry. Just making moves for the sake of making move sometimes is good for off szn an fan talks but then u end up being the knicks, the suns, the brooklyn nets. Sometimes you develop your guys which clearly has happened.

I think we are spoiled because the heat are a team that goes to the nba finals and still have fans that complain to the hills. championship or bust.


who was the help what players?. like even now who do yall want?.

Video game wise you can get anyone but in reality who do yalll want right now

You say they don’t have you in a chokehold but repeat the same points that people who are in a chokehold say

They always say the prioritize flexibility, but have over paid players multiple times. Have refused to got rid of players when their value was at its highest. Have mismanaged assets for years, hindering our ability to improve and even when they do have the assets they refuse to trade it when it’s obviously necessary.

Yes jimmy asked for kyle lowry, kyle lowry led us to a #1 seed and top5 in the league when he got here. Bam/herro/jimmy all missed time with injuries that year and he kept us as the 1 seed. The best record, the beat offense,the best defense was with kyle lowry here.

We made it to game7 of the ECF and made a finals run where he was a very important factor in both runs. How is that move used as a talking point against improving a roster that close to the championship? It was started by Ethan Skolnick and his network, well known water carriers for the heat front office, he did it to take blame off the front office like he always does and now fans repeat it as if it makes sense

You say we shouldn’t make moves just to make moves and wait for guys to develop, literally one of that main points of someone thats brainwashed by this new heat culture wave.

Why would a team who were the 1seed got to the ECF GAME 7 say hey lets not make any moves to try for a ring, lets do NOTHING B2B OFF SEASONS and develop our own guys..lmfao like bro cmon asking to help a contender is people being spoiled??? Look where that **** has us now, 37 wins and 3 play in appearances in a row

But that’s what the Heat specialize in doing now, they have zero direction. They rather die drinking their own koolaid rather than do everything they can for a championship like they use to..

Remember when we went to the ecf in 05 with shaq and dwade who were both better than jimmy, dwade got hurt vs the pistons when we were about to close the series..Did they say its ok let’s just fo nothing and develop the guys we have and try again next year..Nope they flipped the entire roster and pat came to coach. Thats how much we wanted championships.. All im asking for is that same urgency, not this new fake heat culture **** where we branding it, putting it on the court like goofys.

And me right now? I don’t want anyone i want them to pick a direction. Me personally i don’t ever see herro or bam as the #1 guys for a championship team. I think bam can be paired with a #1 guy tho, but how are they gonna get that guy by being middle of the pack?

They should be selling high on players to get assets then swing for superstars like we used to do. Free agency is dead so now we have to have assets to be prepared when a player asks out.

I want championships to be the main objective again for the heat again

 

[E1k]

Probably gonna be a spur..Any team that is asking 2025 KD to be their best player isn’t serious about winning. He needs to be the #2 guy, if i were him id be trying to get to Denver but he wants his last big contract in a no tax state(Texas with spurs or rockets, or heat) which is understandable

 

[MoneybaggCANES]

 

[gogeta4]

Now this would be a **** of a pick up for the Heat.

Kuminga would actually fit perfect with Heat Culture because he's a versatile slashing Foward that can get you 25 when needed & is a very good on-ball committed Defender, that can guard 1-4.

This is the type of move that the Heat should be looking to make, not wasting yall time on a headcase like Durant.

think they were trying to get him in the jimmy b thing last year.