OT Hard knocks Cleveland Browns

[Tee3000]

I know. That's the problem, and it's also why nothing is getting fixed and the divide grows deeper.

Facts don't care if you agree with them.

It won't get fixed until everyone truly cares for one another and I mean everyone....Everyone has to confront, refuse to tolerate and ostracize racists, & bigots...then we all have to do the same thing regarding racist & bigoted policies and systems that pollute every sector of this country.

When everyone can do this then we will truly MAGTFT......

 

[Dhatguy]

I know. That's the problem, and it's also why nothing is getting fixed and the divide grows deeper.

Facts don't care if you agree with them.

That was not a fact though. It was your opinion of what it represents. It’s not the same for everyone.

Also the divide has always been there and it’s not getting deeper, the light is finally being shined on it to where we can see how deep it’s truly was/is.

 

[Loose Cannon]

It won't get fixed until everyone truly cares for one another and I mean everyone....Everyone has to confront, refuse to tolerate and ostracize racists, & bigots...then we all have to do the same thing regarding racist & bigoted policies and systems that pollute every sector of this country.

When everyone can do this then we will truly MAGTFT......

This is effectively acknowledging that the problem is not fixable for two reasons.

1. You're never going to convince everyone to do anything. We're a nation of over 300 million. You'll never completely stamp out racism and bigotry from a group that size. So saying that the fight must continue until it is, is effectively resigning to a life of perpetual conflict. This fosters increased animosity, strife, and division. It reduces nothing, and it solves nothing.

2. Every disagreement met and every obstacle encountered is not a product of racism. There's actually very few true bigots out there who truly hate on the sole basis of race, religion, age, ***, nationality, or place of origin. Take a moment to listen, and you might find that people can disagree with a certain point of view because they have a precise and very valid counter point of view rather than an inherent hatred towards the person holding the point of view to which they disagree.

Your opinions are likely to be presented from your point of view based largely on your personal experiences and cultural upbringing just as mine would be presented from my point of view based on my personal experiences and cultural upbringing. The biggest problem that I see currently is that we have given up the ability to respectfully disagree, and instead resorted to baseless accusations that if you disagree with my point of view, it's because you hate me for my personal experiences and cultural background. It's the idea that there MUST be something wrong with ME rather than my argument that fans the flames of animosity and division.

 

[DerekDohrman]

“very little of what you wrote is fact. almost all of it lacks context and much is left out.”

...but it took you 3 days to come up with a passage from Wikipedia as a factual and reliable source did you edit that yourself? Can’t make this stuff up...well actually you can obviously^^^.

I’m not interested in your facts, they’re still opinion based. I prefer truth, there’s a difference. Just more paternalism, now you get to tell me what’s a fact .

more accusations of paternalism? you realize that says much more about you than it does those whom you label with it. but again i agree with you, you dont have to be interested in facts. but these are not merely my facts. they are agreed upon facts. you are free to take aim at them, discredit them, and provide arguments/evidence that disputes them. i dont care to argue labels. i prefer ideas.

 

[DerekDohrman]

“other black americans have chosen to not focus on such things, and have gone on to live fully enriched, happy lives. they have also incurred benefits and costs for that choice. some realized now, some much later on down the line, perhaps not in their lifetime.”

More paternalism...as if focusing on ones’ history and acting accordingly is a hindrance to success and self-actualization. And not focusing on it (whatever that means or entails) is the key to success from a black person. How accommodating an opinion to have. Still can’t think of a way to communicate without everything being to your benefit or on your terms. No thanks, please direct your moral advice to those closest to you. Forgetting your history (why u came here, what you did when you got here etc..) and ethnicity works for them, not me.

that's not what i implied, but based on your world view, it not surprising that this is how you interpret it. i simply stated that all of us are free to choose how to best live our lives. sometimes that choice involves deciding to not be weighed down by bitterness towards others, and to instead focus on personal growth. yet other times, people choose to base their identity heavily on what others have done to them, or what has been done to others that they identify as being part of their group, and then proceed from there. i wont argue that either choice is better or worse, only that there are benefits and costs to each choice. that means that yes, there is a cost in choosing to not focus substantially(notice, im not saying ignore or forget) on historical injustices or even current ones. some fights absolutely need to be fought. and perhaps even this current one (anthem kneeling) is one of them. i never said otherwise. my only contention, is that the anthem represents far more than merely its' author's biography(and even that itself is complex), and therefore, the protesters and those supporting them ought not be surprised when people take offense to the manner in which they protest. That is, afterall, the entire point of their protest.

ill choose to ignore the labeling, as its irrelevant to the ideas being discussed.

 

[DerekDohrman]

“i encourage knowing history, but making sure its ALL history, and taken in its proper context. America got a lot wrong.. or it didnt get around to getting things right fast enough. but while plenty americans lived morally depraved lives, still plenty died and gave their lives to end that depravity. well over 350,000 northern deaths as a result of the civil war.“

U encourage the knowing of ALL history but u believe that the Civil War was fought to free slaves or end slavery

i welcome you educating me on the cause(s) of the civil war then. please continue..

 

[Loose Cannon]

That was not a fact though. It was your opinion of what it represents. It’s not the same for everyone.

Also the divide has always been there and it’s not getting deeper, the light is finally being shined on it to where we can see how deep it’s truly was/is.

No. It's a fact. I know this because I've read the history of the people who inspired the flag and the account of the man who wrote the anthem and how he became inspired to do so.

Now I can respect that your interpretation, what it means to you, may be different that the purpose it was designed and written for, but that is irrelevant to the original intent. You don't just erase the history of something simply because you choose to interpret it's meaning differently that what was originally intended. The history...the documented design and inspiration by those who did the designing and inspiring is kind of what makes a fact a fact, and if the discussion doesn't even have a common basis in the documented fact, then there will always be division.

 

[Loose Cannon]

If you're interested in learning how the anthem came to be written, what its significance is to the flag, and what the original inspiration was, take a few moments to watch. It kind of reminds me of those betamax videos we used to have to sit through in middle school, but bear with it if you can.

 

[jw410]

Agreed. But just like i tell adrian,marquise & e reid they gotta realize the bigger picture as a whole if they try to use their moment for more than they should. Just as many people as this relates to it also offends. People die to uphold that flag. That is the bigger picture in this equation.

I disagree with you. Protesting by kneeling isn't the answer...But just shutting up and playing football is exactly what they want black athletes to do. You can say whatever you want on this topic. I'm not anti military I just want folks to be treated better.

 

[HarrietTubmanCane]

The idea behind the right to protest was to protect the right of the citizenry to redress grievances towards the government.

Kaepernick redressed his fans, the paying customers of the NFL, and the millions of people who turn on their television to just watch a football game. I’m not doubting his passion for the cause no more than I am doubting the genuine offense or patriotism of many of the people who stopped watching, burned jerseys, and quit going to games.

He screwed up. He turned away people who had paid to come to see him by spitting on something they held sacred and felt had nothing to do with his cause of awareness. People already predisposed to be sympathetic by being paying customers could have been a much greater force for change had he simply called up his publicist and said, “You know what? To **** with a game today. Get me a podium and a microphone set up on the steps of San Francisco City Hall. I have an announcement to make.”

He still would have been blackballed.

 

[HarrietTubmanCane]

I bet you're receiving some type of government assistance.

EXACTLY

 

[jw410]

Massive awareness?

LOL lemme know how that works out

and if you can't see how taking a knee during a nations national anthem is disrespectful, your lack of self awareness needs to be modified. Having read now about the special forces guy that suggested it, I can't help but roll my eyes. That guy should have had the awareness to know that isn't gonna fly well

I had an issue with it long before trump said anything, he basically put the icing on the cake for the rest of the country.

besides wtf you gonna do huh? You just gonna kneel every time your own countries national anthem plays from here on out instead of doing what you're supposed to do? Exactly when do you plan on stopping this kneeling?

I walk in schools in DC and Baltimore and those black and Hispanic students don't stand for the flag. I would never join the military so I'm biased. Patsak we gonna disagree forever so enjoy your life.

 

[HarrietTubmanCane]

I know. That's the problem, and it's also why nothing is getting fixed and the divide grows deeper.

Facts don't care if you agree with them.

So the racial problem in America can be solved by everyone embracing that flag? And it’s a fact (not your opinion) that what you described is what it represents? Gotcha...

Just more paternalism. U don’t know how to communicate on these topics without it.

 

[OptimusCreampie]

So?

The flag doesn't represent the government or the military or even the police. Yeah, we stand and honor those who have fought and died to defend it, but that's not what the flag is.

The American flag represents the original rebel spirit that defined what it means to be an American. It represents each and everyone of us as members of the Republic, that we run the government and not the other way around as was the case in every nation that preceded this one, and that when faced with an oppressive government, we're not going to lie down like beat dogs...If Kaepernick understood what the flag really stood for--that even governments run by those with the best intentions, are still run by imperfect people, and when it comes that such a government becomes oppressive, it is both the right and duty of the people to demand change--he could have rallied people of common interest to his cause rather than shunning them.

Skip a game and call a press conference instead. Tell the people that you're skipping a spectacle that parades the flag around in perversion of what it stands for, and remind the people of what it really stands for and that you want to use the podium given to you by the fans to raise awareness for the millions of Americans who still feel the boot of tyranny suppressing their ability to live free and in peace.

Slow clap ... yes we were originally rebels from the tyranny of England.. I’m putting emphasis on what you said about us running the republic .. people seem to forget that nowadays and what we have in place with the Constitution is a beautiful thing ...
People want to change the 2nd amendment but forget why it was implemented in the first place which was to combat tyranny and i can go on about the many examples throughout world history where banning guns haven’t gone dandy

Another beautiful in what other country can you make millions for being a mediocre qb and have the freedom of speech to take a knee during your country’s national anthem. I’ll just wait for answer from someone

Sure there are bigots, racists and ******** in the world and yeah it would be naive to not say there aren’t some in the police force.. also I don’t Think police brutality is pidgeon holed to just African Americans .. but the picture this whole thing is painting that the police are some sort secert police hunting people which is simply not true in my opinion with all the police deaths the past couple years I think it’s scary to be a police officer

 

[HarrietTubmanCane]

more accusations of paternalism? you realize that says much more about you than it does those whom you label with it. but again i agree with you, you dont have to be interested in facts. but these are not merely my facts. they are agreed upon facts. you are free to take aim at them, discredit them, and provide arguments/evidence that disputes them. i dont care to argue labels. i prefer ideas.

Facts can’t compete with Truth. Those are YOUR facts, the facts that fit your narrative, agreed upon by other racist apologists like yourself. Wikipedia can be edited by anyone...facts.

 

[OptimusCreampie]

So the racial problem in America can be solved by everyone embracing that flag? And it’s a fact (not your opinion) that what you described is what it represents? Gotcha...

Just more paternalism. U don’t know how to communicate on these topics without it.

Absolutely we are all Americans first ... so yes embracing the flag will bring us closer as opposed to playing the race card which just deepens racial problems.

 

[OptimusCreampie]

@Loose Cannon right on man I know we don’t agree on a lot of things but couldn’t agree more here

 

[Cane Dynasty]

Some people wake up in the morning looking for ways to be offended or claim victim status.

Many of those same people porst here at CiS.

 

[HarrietTubmanCane]

that's not what i implied, but based on your world view, it not surprising that this is how you interpret it. i simply stated that all of us are free to choose how to best live our lives. sometimes that choice involves deciding to not be weighed down by bitterness towards others, and to instead focus on personal growth. yet other times, people choose to base their identity heavily on what others have done to them, or what has been done to others that they identify as being part of their group, and then proceed from there. i wont argue that either choice is better or worse, only that there are benefits and costs to each choice. that means that yes, there is a cost in choosing to not focus substantially(notice, im not saying ignore or forget) on historical injustices or even current ones. some fights absolutely need to be fought. and perhaps even this current one (anthem kneeling) is one of them. i never said otherwise. my only contention, is that the anthem represents far more than merely its' author's biography(and even that itself is complex), and therefore, the protesters and those supporting them ought not be surprised when people take offense to the manner in which they protest. That is, afterall, the entire point of their protest.

ill choose to ignore the labeling, as its irrelevant to the ideas being discussed.

U continue to focus on the “proper” reaction to a 300+ year old proactive system of oppression. But will not challenge the bitterness and rage of those who have or currently continue to enact institutional racism and white supremacy. So the act of remembering history and bringing it up is inherently an act of bitterness? And knowing and acknowledging history is mutually exclusive to personal growth and development...again how convenient. Again, I would feel this way if I were you but I’m not and we don’t share the same history. Anthem represents exactly what he wrote it for just like the police represent exactly what they were originally created for. Neither of there beginnings have ever been denounced and there’s never been an effort to make distance between then and now. Instead, the true meanings and intentions were hidden. That’s not transparency, that’s not unifying, that’s not sincerity. That’s just more paternalism and that’s the only way you know how to address these issues.

 

[ben]

Well if this thread is any indication, it’s gonna be a rough season for the Cleveland Browns