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OT: Give me some MJ!

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CaneOil said:
That was a good choice for Jordan he sucked at that. You guys have so many excuses for Jordans short comings its funny. Doesn't matter he sucked at 3 pointers for half of his career. Doesn't matter he never beat Bird in the playoffs. Doesn't matter he didn't win a game in Boston garden for half his career. Doesn't matter he never beat the best teams when he was at his peak. Doesn't matter he choked in so many games his first 7 years in the league against good teams. But but he could jump high and dunk the ball. Greatest player of all time. lol
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Oh boy; r u still talking about 3 point shooting?

So you’re going to pretend like Bird was just launching the 3 point rock early in his career? The 3 pt shot was not popular, and I already explained why to another poster.

But let’s be clear; MJ’s knock coming out was his shooting ability from the field. He was never a 3 point shooter. But, Bird? Bird was known for his dead eye.

However, let’s examine Bird’s first 5 yrs:
1st yr:
Avg.: 0.7 3pt made/g on 1.7 3pt attempts/g
(40.6%)

2nd yr:
Avg.: 0.2 3pt made/g on 0.9 3pt attempts/g
(27.0%)

3rd yr:
Avg.: 0.1 3pt made/g on 0.7 3pt attempts/g
(21.2%)

4th yr:
Avg.: 0.3 3pt made/g on 1 3pt attempts/g
(28.6%)

5th yr: 0.2 3pt made/g on 0.9 3pt attempts/g
(24.7%)

So for Bird’s First 5 yrs, my man made and shot less than one 3pt fg/game on 28.4%. Lol!

Bruh! Come on, man.
 
Rellyrell said:
Oh boy; r u still talking about 3 point shooting?

So you’re going to pretend like Bird was just launching the 3 point rock early in his career? The 3 pt shot was not popular, and I already explained why to another poster.

But let’s be clear; MJ’s knock coming out was his shooting ability from the field. He was never a 3 point shooter. But, Bird? Bird was known for his dead eye.

However, let’s examine Bird’s first 5 yrs:
1st yr:
Avg.: 0.7 3pt made/g on 1.7 3pt attempts/g
(40.6%)

2nd yr:
Avg.: 0.2 3pt made/g on 0.9 3pt attempts/g
(27.0%)

3rd yr:
Avg.: 0.1 3pt made/g on 0.7 3pt attempts/g
(21.2%)

4th yr:
Avg.: 0.3 3pt made/g on 1 3pt attempts/g
(28.6%)

5th yr: 0.2 3pt made/g on 0.9 3pt attempts/g
(24.7%)

So for Bird’s First 5 yrs, my man made and shot less than one 3pt fg/game on 28.4%. Lol!

Bruh! Come on, man.
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@CaneOil is my man...but Bird is not in Jordan’s level. there is no argument that can be made...
 
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caneofny said:
@CaneOil is my man...but Bird is not in Jordan’s level. there is no argument that can be made...
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He’s mine too. I met a guy in Vegas who’s a die hard Boston fan in a Chicago sports bar. Man, I swear he is @CaneOil. Lol. Same debate we had, except we were both lit. Lol. Great guy; dude hugged me and said this is y I respect Bulls fans. lol.
 
Rellyrell said:
He’s mine too. I met a guy in Vegas who’s a die hard Boston fan in a Chicago sports bar. Man, I swear he is @CaneOil. Lol. Same debate we had, except we were both lit. Lol. Great guy; dude hugged me and said this is y I respect Bulls fans. lol.
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bro I’m ny all day but I’m a Mets fan, old Mike fan, and Canes. NY fans think Boston fans are ******** and vice versa. But that’s yanks/Sox and jets/pats. Boston fans can be obnoxious but as long as you aren’t shoving Jeter down their throats they good people!

96 bulls bury any warrior team in 5 games...
 
CaneOil said:
And Jordans was 18.6% just saying who was better at it and Jordan was the guard. I'm comparing apples to apples. And the 3 pointer was not used as much when Bird started compared to Jordans start. In fact they started the 3 point shot the same year as Magic and Bird came into the league. It was used much more by the time Jordan started. One thing that I do have over some of you guys is I'm old as **** and have seen both play against each other many many times in person. I wouldn't take Jordan in a draft over Jabbar, Magic, Wilt or Bird and probably a few more. A 6'6.5 inch guard would never be my first choice.

Would any of you guys seriously take Jordan over Jabbar in a draft? I've seen both play Jabbar the most dominant player I've ever seen when he was ****ed or focused and he was way beyond peak. In my opinion zero chance I take Jordan over him first. You guys are younger probably haven't seen the games in the 80's live, it was an entirely different game back then. Much tougher that's why Jordan had such a hard time winning. But I do love having this discussion with you and NY knows I like him and his great family. Jordan had plenty of chances to win games late and he choked. JMO

Nobody has answered this question either, one on one could Jordan beat any of the 4 I talk about? I say yes one out of ten if he's hitting outside but that wasn't his strong point. They would back him and eat him alive just like Bird did to Jordan many time over and over again.
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U continue to dodge points:

1. MJ WAS NEVER KNOWN AS A 3 POINT SHOOTER AS 3 POINT SHOOTING WASN’T APART OF HIS GAME!

U’re magnifying Bird as this sharp shooter from distance, yet Bird’s first 5 yrs, he absolutely SUCKED from behind the arc.

2. MJ HAD ZERO HELP, HE WAS THE OFFENSE AND DEFENSE, YET HE STILL LEAD THE LEAGUE IN SCORING & EFFICIENCY IN 4 OF HIS FIRST 6 YRS!

Again, u continue to gloss over the fact that Bird had not one, not two, but THREE HOFers in his starting lineup, alone! Let alone another HOFer coming off the bench!! U or no other die hard Bulls fan can name any other player MJ played w prior to Pippen besides Orlando Woolridge & Charles Oakley.

3. THE 80’S WERE DOMINATED BY SUPER TEAMS!

MJ never, NEVER had a super team in the 80’s!
Bird had a Super Team constructed around him
Magic had a Super Team constructed around him
Dr J had a Super Team constructed around him

The exception was the late 80’s Pistons who had 2 HOFers play in the back court, but was filled w a grip of tough, out muscle you types of front courts throughout their entire bench....even then, they didn’t get a piece of the pie til the late 80’s as both Boston & LAL’s Super Teams became fractured.

4. MJ DOMINATED THE 90’S B/C REINSDORK & KRAUSE FINALLY CONSTRUCTED A TEAM AROUND HIM.

You bring up a Bird highlight on what he did to Pip his rookie yr. Pippen, didn’t become Pippen til his 3rd yr in the league! And stop w the b.s about you lost love of basketball in the 90’s b/c the rules changed. NAW, u lost interest b/c The Celtics were bottom dwellers in the 90’s, and could NOT draft for chit! The 90’s had ICONIC Centers that MJ had to face, Centers that revolutionized the game. The 90’s was filled w/ iconic players.

U’re entitled ur opinion, but ur arguments are deaf at best. U can’t even stand on one leg to defend why Bird, who HAD THE REP OF BEING A SHOOTER couldn’t even hit 25% of the 3’s he took in his first 5 yrs of the league! Lol.

Go ask Bird, his thoughts; naw....never mind. I’ll provide them for you. If the guy you’re defending is disagreeing w u, then what more do I need to respond on this subject?

theundefeated.com

The day Larry Bird said, ‘It’s just God disguised as Michael Jordan’

Boston Celtics forward Larry Bird could have sworn the individual who dropped a historic 63 points in a playoff game was actually God dolled up as Chicago Bulls…
theundefeated.com theundefeated.com
 
I used to get heated as a kid arguing that Magic was a better "team" player than MJ and I probably deep down still believe it. Then again, I used to also argue that Golden Boy Brady was a system QB.
 
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I would always take Jabbar first let me make that clear the other 3 would be a tough choice. Wilt is the only question I have I just don't know enough about him. Would have loved to see him play in the 80's when the toughest players on earth played.

Jabbar got to play against Jordan too. Should I take his word for it or fans who who probably never saw Bird, Magic or Jabbar play?




''Pippen besides Orlando Woolridge & Charles Oakley.''

Let's go over the 87 Chicago team. Jordan,HOF Gilmore HOF old, Oakley AS, Grant AS, Pippen HOF Threat, better before and after he left Jordan. Sparrow was a better player before and after he left Jordan. Jordan didn't make people better like Bird did. But how can you if you're a ball hog. Jordans best teams were probably when they got Rodman, he actually made players around him better. Bird was a superior passer, not as good as Magic but real good.

Now I do have one gripe about Jordan, 13 ago I use to go to Sam'stown Casino for 6 months and watch games for the entire season. I use to sit with all the brothers a **** of a bunch of fun guys.. 3- 4 of the guys worked at one of the big casino's as baggage handlers. Jordan came in and was one of the cheapest tippers out of everyone. The richest of all athletes was the cheapest, that stuck with me all these years. All of the guys couldn't stand him. Barkley and others would come in and give them 100, not Jordan like 5 bucks. I guess **** like that matters to me a bit. It doesn't take away from his game just something I didn't like about him.

And nobody will answer the question would Jordan beat any of those guys one on one? LMAO I guess we all now the the truth.
 
CaneOil said:
Bird shot over 41% for his best 4 years in a row when Jordan was around. Jordan got a little better too.
Everyone but McHale was way over their prime when Bird was there. But Bird made all of them better. You make it sound like they were all in their prime when they were with Bird which is far from the truth. 86 team was probably their best. DJ 10th year, past his prime never a great shooter. Parish 10th year, past his prime. Walton the cripple 9th year could only play a few minutes at a time as backup to Parish.

Your are not telling the truth if you think Bird was surrounded by the best players at their positions. It's just not True, a few of those guys were very good at one time. Bird made everyone better, you can ask anyone who saw them play before they got to the Celtics. Parish was a good center but never considered with the top guys, of all the guys Bird made better he stands out.

No I'm not picking on Pippen he was never a top D player in my mind. Bird did it to the best in the business too at his height, Rodman. Don't give me that Jordan was better on D than Rod, Jordan was wimpy Bird pushed him all over the place on offense. Jordan had a good enough team to win games against Boston he just didn't. Here is Bostons team not sure who all these super starts you're talking about. lol 6-4 175 March 17, 1959 us 5 BYU
33 Larry Bird SF 6-9 220 December 7, 1956 us 7 Indiana State University
34 Rick Carlisle SG 6-5 210 October 27, 1959 us 2 University of Maine, Virginia
20 Darren Daye SF 6-8 220 November 30, 1960 us 3 UCLA
43 Conner Henry SG 6-7 195 July 21, 1963 us R UC Santa Barbara
3 Dennis Johnson PG 6-4 185 September 18, 1954 us 10 Pepperdine
50 Greg Kite C 6-11 250 August 5, 1961 us 3 BYU
32 Kevin McHale PF 6-10 210 December 19, 1957 us 6 Minnesota
00 Robert Parish C 7-1 230 August 30, 1953 us 10 Centenary College of Louisiana
31 Fred Roberts PF 6-10 218 August 14, 1960 us 3 BYU
12 Jerry Sichting PG 6-1 168 November 29, 1956 us 6 Purdue
45 David Thirdkill SF 6-7 195 April 12, 1960 us 4 Bradley
7 Andre Turner PG 5-11 160 December 13, 1964 us R Memphis
11 Sam Vincent PG 6-2 185 May 18, 1963 us 1 Michigan State
5 Bill Walton C 6-11 210 November 5, 1952 us 9 UCLA
8 Scott Wedman SF 6-7 215 July 29, 1952 us 12 Colorado

Why I stopped watching I moved to South Florida I was on the hunt for better things. lol I had a much better life in SF than Boston, the best time in my life by a huge margin even with all the great sports people I've got to see. The Boston team was old you could see it when they lost to Detroit.

Again Boston was not all filled with super stars by any means, one super star changed it for Boston. The difference between Bird and Jordan early on was Bird played his best late in their games against each other, Jordan did not.

That Bird saying about Jordan was for one game and Jordan still lost because he choked late.
Bird was the biggest talker in the league most will tell you that.
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See bold and see the ages. lol. Bird, McHale, DJ, AND Parrish were ALL IN THEIR PRIME at the SAME TIME. lol. Thank you for posting this....and All 5 I bolded are in the HOF. Stop it.
 
CaneOil said:
I would always take Jabbar first let me make that clear the other 3 would be a tough choice. Wilt is the only question I have I just don't know enough about him. Would have loved to see him play in the 80's when the toughest players on earth played.

Jabbar got to play against Jordan too. Should I take his word for it or fans who who probably never saw Bird, Magic or Jabbar play?




''Pippen besides Orlando Woolridge & Charles Oakley.''

Let's go over the 87 Chicago team. Jordan,HOF Gilmore HOF old, Oakley AS, Grant AS, Pippen HOF Threat, better before and after he left Jordan. Sparrow was a better player before and after he left Jordan. Jordan didn't make people better like Bird did. But how can you if you're a ball hog. Jordans best teams were probably when they got Rodman, he actually made players around him better. Bird was a superior passer, not as good as Magic but real good.

Now I do have one gripe about Jordan, 13 ago I use to go to Sam'stown Casino for 6 months and watch games for the entire season. I use to sit with all the brothers a **** of a bunch of fun guys.. 3- 4 of the guys worked at one of the big casino's as baggage handlers. Jordan came in and was one of the cheapest tippers out of everyone. The richest of all athletes was the cheapest, that stuck with me all these years. All of the guys couldn't stand him. Barkley and others would come in and give them 100, not Jordan like 5 bucks. I guess **** like that matters to me a bit. It doesn't take away from his game just something I didn't like about him.

And nobody will answer the question would Jordan beat any of those guys one on one? LMAO I guess we all now the the truth.
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Stop drinking before 12....it's not good for your health. lol.
 
CaneOil said:
I don't drink, but your opinion rates higher than Jabbars? Maybe you thought Jabbar was drinking too? lol
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The Captain is one of the most underrated players in NBA history, and he happens to be my former client along w Jerry Buss’ business partners. Lol. I hold Kareem in the highest regard. He doesn’t get the love that Walton got while he was at UCLA, & he doesn’t get the same love Magic or Big O got while he was in LAL & Milwaukee.

The Cap & MJ are in my top 2 as far as most dominant. Unfortunately, MJ is going to get the nod b/c he was 6-0, no game 7’s, avg. more points, iconic shoes, played above the rim, sponsorship deals, etc.
 
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CaneOil said:
Sure in the HOF but only two were in their prime. Jordan had two HOF and at least a couple all stars you stop it. You're just mad Jordan couldn't get the job done against the best. Those are the facts. DJ and Parish were in their 10th year, neither in their prime. The other was a back up cripple by then do your research. lol You kids are funny!
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LOL:

Robert Parrish was the oldest and he was only 4 yrs older than McHale (the baby), 3 yrs older than Bird, and 1 yr older than DJ.

Bird was 25 for his first title
Parrish was 28
McHale was 24
DJ helped with the last two titles and he was 30 in 84, Parrish was 31, Bird 28, and McHale 27.

Like I said; Prime. lol
 
CaneOil said:
I would always take Jabbar first let me make that clear the other 3 would be a tough choice. Wilt is the only question I have I just don't know enough about him. Would have loved to see him play in the 80's when the toughest players on earth played.

Jabbar got to play against Jordan too. Should I take his word for it or fans who who probably never saw Bird, Magic or Jabbar play?




''Pippen besides Orlando Woolridge & Charles Oakley.''

Let's go over the 87 Chicago team. Jordan,HOF Gilmore HOF old, Oakley AS, Grant AS, Pippen HOF Threat, better before and after he left Jordan. Sparrow was a better player before and after he left Jordan. Jordan didn't make people better like Bird did. But how can you if you're a ball hog. Jordans best teams were probably when they got Rodman, he actually made players around him better. Bird was a superior passer, not as good as Magic but real good.

Now I do have one gripe about Jordan, 13 ago I use to go to Sam'stown Casino for 6 months and watch games for the entire season. I use to sit with all the brothers a **** of a bunch of fun guys.. 3- 4 of the guys worked at one of the big casino's as baggage handlers. Jordan came in and was one of the cheapest tippers out of everyone. The richest of all athletes was the cheapest, that stuck with me all these years. All of the guys couldn't stand him. Barkley and others would come in and give them 100, not Jordan like 5 bucks. I guess **** like that matters to me a bit. It doesn't take away from his game just something I didn't like about him.

And nobody will answer the question would Jordan beat any of those guys one on one? LMAO I guess we all now the the truth.
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Your story on MJ’s tip is one I heard from several ppl back in Chicago too.

Again, my favorite player is Pip, but I hella respect MJ’s greatness.....and his shoes. Lol
 
Rellyrell said:
Your story on MJ’s tip is one I heard from several ppl back in Chicago too.

Again, my favorite player is Pip, but I hella respect MJ’s greatness.....and his shoes. Lol
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To talk about the ‘87 bulls and mention grant and pippen as anything other than rookies is the kind of thing someone says if they didn’t actually watch the ‘87 bulls or just are tryna spin and spew nonsense. Pippen’s rookie season was 87-88. He scored like 7 points, had 3 rebounds, and vomited when someone got physical on him. Grand was about the same, a smidge more boards. And gilmore? Dude was drafted in 1971! this argument is absurd.

edit: realize i’m responding to the post you quoted not you, just sayin....
 
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Ethnicsands said:
To talk about the ‘87 bulls and mention grant and pippen as anything other than rookies is the kind of thing someone says if they didn’t actually watch the ‘87 bulls or just are tryna spin and spew nonsense. Pippen’s rookie season was 87-88. He scored like 7 points, had 3 rebounds, and vomited when someone got physical on him. Grand was about the same, a smidge more boards. And gilmore? Dude was drafted in 1971! this argument is absurd.

edit: realize i’m responding to the post you quoted not you, just sayin....
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Bro; my friend Mr Celtic is making laughable statements. Everyone knows this! lol
 
CaneOil said:
Yes for the 81 title they were prime or close. In 86 was probably the best team of all time IMO is what I was talking about they were not. lol 5 years later Parrish and DJ were certainly not prime. Don't change the playing field.
But I agree it took Bird 2 years and Jordan took what 7 because he couldn't beat the best teams in the 80's.

Jordan was a great player just not the best. Would you take him over Jabbar in a draft?
Could he beat any of the 4 no!
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I would take him over Jabbar & yes, he would beat any of them 1 on 1
 
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