OT: Beirut Explosion

Gatorhater

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May 17, 2013
Messages
17,209
You‘re switching from the Bible to modern times as some sort of reason? Ugh!

So the which son spawned the Vikings? 3rd Reich? Genghis Khan? What about the Mongols? Because there must be a direct biblical explanation, no? Rhetorical!

There’s conflict all over the world. It’s what man does. Trying to make one group the heel and one group the hero is usually complicated. And trying to tie it to the Bible … stupid. You might need to read more of my newly found armistice partner @Gatorhater to catch up to making an even slightly reasoned argument. It’s a tentative peace We have you know - we still don’t agree, but you could learn more than you currently know.
Ah, there you go again. Forget any bias you might have and acknowledge the Bible to be at least an attempt to record history and certainly one of the oldest. I am not adverse to religious discussion but this stuff so full of that issue as to render it meaningless to talk about. That is all the reference was about. It was merely to point to a possible fact that since humans might have first lived in that region and the first recorded, however true or not, violent homicide could have occurred there, then violence was no stranger to the region. I think I was agreeing with your premise that all efforts in the region have failed or were mistakes. Why not take it as a win instead of to toss a weak insult?

Sure violence aplenty has been world wide but the Middle East is certainly one of the most persistent. Vikings eventually calmed down(some food for future discucssion would be if that was do to the Middle Ages Warming Period) although some settled in France and sallied forth as Normans for quite some time as fierce as ever. The Mongols, after a truly spectacular and impressive run, eventually withdrew and again calmed down. Maybe that was because of their own venture into the Middle East cauldron.

For the sake of continued discordance, may I suggest you refrain from defining "reasoned" as only something you agree with. You seem to have enough knowledge to stand your ground without tossing silly insults. By the way, Carter is hardly someone I supported but the dude did something NO other President came close to and deserves praise for it. Calling a 40 years peace "tentative" in a region where the great Kissinger was happy with short ceasefires is hardly fair. He left the Middle East in a disaster because of his mistakes in Iran but he stopped hot wars between the two biggest players with background impact on US vs USSR battle by basically "flipping" Egypt - two big wins for the man. Add that to the fact the the Helsinki Accords with USSR was major contribution to the eventual collapse of the Evil Empire(knowing why that is true is a little test for you) and Carter has case for being one of our most successful presidents so clearly needed to be pitched at first chance. I voted against him twice and stand by both but he was two for three on the major foreign affairs issues.
 

Gatorhater

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Joined
May 17, 2013
Messages
17,209
Not a pacifist either. And, as easy as it was to fly commercial airlines into buildings, it’ll be even easier through other means - some which many haven’t even considered yet. But, airliners are child’s play when a geopolitical foe can use bots and a compromised Manchurian candidate to undermine a party and a country’s ideals. Because in America democracy doesn’t mean you won the people’s vote.

Your kids … are your worry for the wrong reasons.
But Hilary loss the election and their 125 million only bought some out uranium. Hey, take a chance to get ahead of the game. When Trump wins on November is it going to be China interference? Do they think the 1.5 billions wasn't enough to by Joe?

Okay, now that we have stakes out political stands lets go back to Russia. The Russian are extremely smart and every effective in diplomacy. They do little without planning. In 1980 USA elected a "cowboy" President. He was unpredictable and that does not play well with plans. The result was collapse of USSR. Do you really think these smart thoughtful Russians wanted anything to do with another unpredictable "cowboy" in the White House when that had a "known" if not bought and paid for alternative? Please they are still laughing at the fantastic "reset" button and smiling at the recovery of crucial parts of their former empire under Hilary and her former boss. Be serious. Step into Putin shoes and think. Remember he is Russian not American. He does not have our silly love of the unknown and adventure.

Did Trump have plans for Russia? Hell yeah. Who would you want on your side if you were going to throw down with 1.4 billion people? The big badass on their northern border who has all the natural resources those 1.4 million need and want. A border where tens of thousands have died on both sides over the last 60 years or so. Hum, maybe the badass that FDR used to beat the Nazis to death could help out again. One more thing, did you notice Trump hardly ever dumped on India about stealing American jobs? Do you think he didn't notice it? Hum, maybe the other 1.4 billion people on China's southwest border who have actually bought wars against Red China could be useful too. Has Trump trashed Vietnam about jobs? Has he tried harder than any president to come to terms with North Korea? What do they have in common? Could it be borders with China?

Trump might have had someone ghostwrite The Art of the Deal but he has been following the Art of War quite well. If you have not read it you should. You can't understand Trump without it. If you happen to come around to believing Trump might have been planning this(you can still think it stupid) then take a little time to re-evaluate the whole "Russia Collusion".
 

JD08

Rolling in my 5.0
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
12,796
Ah, there you go again. Forget any bias you might have and acknowledge the Bible to be at least an attempt to record history and certainly one of the oldest. I am not adverse to religious discussion but this stuff so full of that issue as to render it meaningless to talk about. That is all the reference was about. It was merely to point to a possible fact that since humans might have first lived in that region and the first recorded, however true or not, violent homicide could have occurred there, then violence was no stranger to the region. I think I was agreeing with your premise that all efforts in the region have failed or were mistakes. Why not take it as a win instead of to toss a weak insult?

Sure violence aplenty has been world wide but the Middle East is certainly one of the most persistent. Vikings eventually calmed down(some food for future discucssion would be if that was do to the Middle Ages Warming Period) although some settled in France and sallied forth as Normans for quite some time as fierce as ever. The Mongols, after a truly spectacular and impressive run, eventually withdrew and again calmed down. Maybe that was because of their own venture into the Middle East cauldron.

For the sake of continued discordance, may I suggest you refrain from defining "reasoned" as only something you agree with. You seem to have enough knowledge to stand your ground without tossing silly insults. By the way, Carter is hardly someone I supported but the dude did something NO other President came close to and deserves praise for it. Calling a 40 years peace "tentative" in a region where the great Kissinger was happy with short ceasefires is hardly fair. He left the Middle East in a disaster because of his mistakes in Iran but he stopped hot wars between the two biggest players with background impact on US vs USSR battle by basically "flipping" Egypt - two big wins for the man. Add that to the fact the the Helsinki Accords with USSR was major contribution to the eventual collapse of the Evil Empire(knowing why that is true is a little test for you) and Carter has case for being one of our most successful presidents so clearly needed to be pitched at first chance. I voted against him twice and stand by both but he was two for three on the major foreign affairs issues.
Well, 1 for 3. The Helsinki Accords were Ford.

But people don't really understand how huge the Camp David Accords were. They literally cost Anwar Sadat his life.

People castigate Carter for Iran, but his biggest mistake was not getting the embassy employees out earlier. Once the embassy was taken, there were no good options and the failed extraction was evidence of that.
 

Gatorhater

All-American
Joined
May 17, 2013
Messages
17,209
Entering some scary times. I especially fear for what's coming down the pike for my kids. I am getting old too. Tetrasticles thinks I'm a millennial. So at least I have that going for me.
Heck, my kids just think I'm senile. I'm not tech savvy enough to mistaken as millennial. I expected to and was hoping to be gone before this came along. Now I find myself knocking clips on the table to shake the powder and looking for fields of fire while I ride around on my mobility scooter. My older one had room to mount a AR and carry 12 gauge in a old horse holster but my new titanium one is useless so it is side arms and one AR in hand plus maybe the 12 over the shoulder on strap. Meantime, my Rosary is on overtime.
 

Gatorhater

All-American
Joined
May 17, 2013
Messages
17,209
Biblically, it's actually a sibling rivalry between the sons of Abraham and their progeny. Muslims claim Ishmael the rightful heir (being first born through a concubine), the Jews Isaac (being the son through Sara his wife and God's promise). Isaac got the promised land and Abraham basically had to send Ishmael into exile due to family conflict, but God prophesied Ishmael would start a great nation in his own right. The land is what's being fought for to this day.

Not a proponent of Hal Lindsay, but his book "The Ever Lasting Hatred" is a good read regarding the roots of the Arab-Israeli conflict from a biblical standpoint.
I'm familiar with this but trying to talk about it to non-religious people is useless. I think God issued a "kill them all" order that was disobeyed also. At this point I am more worried about our own problems. I do hope to be able to go to Jerusalem in 2022. We were going this year in February but cancelled two weeks before Trump cancelled flights from China. We could got in and out before flights got shut down from there but the virus was already spreading. Best guess I've ever made - well second to betting heavy on Canes in first NC game.
 

Gatorhater

All-American
Joined
May 17, 2013
Messages
17,209
Well, 1 for 3. The Helsinki Accords were Ford.

But people don't really understand how huge the Camp David Accords were. They literally cost Anwar Sadat his life.

People castigate Carter for Iran, but his biggest mistake was not getting the embassy employees out earlier. Once the embassy was taken, there were no good options and the failed extraction was evidence of that.
Oh man, thank you. You're right. Sad to think what happens to memory as we age. I was in law school then they were signed. Well, then maybe throwing Ford out was wrong. Okay, now at least I don't have to question not voting for Carter in 1980. Camp David was huge and Nobel worthy buy without Helsinki, Iran kind of balances the scales. Jimmy's hand was in the whole Iran thing from earlier. He helped Khomeini return to Iran and also told the Shah to "get out". Shah was sick any probably losing anyway. Today, we might be able to pull off that extraction, but then is was a big reach. In hindsight, Jimmy should have asked Congress for a declaration of war for taking the Embassy. Of course it could not have passed but it was the right thing to do. Nothing short of war then and there would have prevent what came.

Thanks for the correction. Should have fact checked my memory. I'll blame the fact that I thought them BS at the time
 

UMFarArcher

All-ACC
Joined
Nov 4, 2011
Messages
13,106
You‘re switching from the Bible to modern times as some sort of reason? Ugh!

So the which son spawned the Vikings? 3rd Reich? Genghis Khan? What about the Mongols? Because there must be a direct biblical explanation, no? Rhetorical!

There’s conflict all over the world. It’s what man does. Trying to make one group the heel and one group the hero is usually complicated. And trying to tie it to the Bible … stupid. You might need to read more of my newly found armistice partner @Gatorhater to catch up to making an even slightly reasoned argument. It’s a tentative peace We have you know - we still don’t agree, but you could learn more than you currently know.

Maybe I can be of assistance - and you can dig and find supporting evidence backing this up.

12 Tribes of Israel - of 12 sons born to the same father, but four different women. They broke up as a nation - ten in the north, two in the south that included Judah. 10 tribes to the north were defeated and carried off into captivity - and later after freed - settled south of the Black Sea, and were noted by contemporary writers. They never returned - and were referred to as the Lost Tribes of Israel.

A massive migration took place in two parts - one part crossed the Bospherous and followed West - becoming many peoples but we know a large part as being the Celts as in Southern Europe. The others went north through the mountain pass through the Caucasus mountains, where we have the root word for Caucasians. Through the mountains, they went north and west.

At this point, they became Cimmarians or Scythians. They settled in modern Ukraine, north to become the Rus, all the way to Scandanavia, to the British Isles - in other words - Europeans.

To your question - take one, single tribe of the Ten Lost - who became Scythians - where we can pretty much track by named locations.

The tribe of Dan (DN) named places they traveled after DN - Hebrew having no vowels - and the map even today note the rivers they traveled - the Don, Dneiper, Danube, Dneister, Don, and Donets.

The Danes from Dan were recorded together Naptali in Scythia, and from there the Danes via Sweden conquered what is now Denmark. It was the Danes and Norwegians that formed the Vikings who invaded Scotland, England, and Ireland and settling in Ireland, England, Wales, and Scotland - where today there's an estimated 50,000,000 in the USA with Irish ancestry.

All through the Isles, there are named places - Dunmoore, Dunmore, Dunwood, and hundreds of variations of locations throughout the Isles.

In Iran, you have the Dangalai, the Danava Scythian tribe, the Dana of Lebanon-Israel to Ireland, the Don in Wales, the Damnones in Scythia, Scotland, and SW Britain - and the Danes of Denmark.

That's just one tribe. You'll also find some fascinating material if you wish to look further - we know the Spartans didn't get along with the other Greeks all the time - and they'd fight each other on occasion.

There are two letters, from two different kings of Sparta - to the inhabitants of Israel - that state that the Spartans had reviewed their records and realized that the Spartans and the inhabitants of Israel were "brethren." And they wanted to establish trade and that if their "brethren" had any needs, to please let Sparta know.

This is just a tiny fragment of one tribe. It's much, much richer when one discovers the actual history of Europe, northern Africa, etc. Known and documented by contemporaries of the times, supported by evidence along the timeline, and still in existence today.

You go and read the Scottish Declaration of Independence - they knew where they came from - and they refer to it right there in their document. Robert the Bruce says it clearly.

Scotland - invaded and settled by Vikings. But they didn't claim to be Vikings. They went back even further.

They say they are Scythians.

It's right there in the document.
 

JD08

Rolling in my 5.0
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
12,796
Oh man, thank you. You're right. Sad to think what happens to memory as we age. I was in law school then they were signed. Well, then maybe throwing Ford out was wrong. Okay, now at least I don't have to question not voting for Carter in 1980. Camp David was huge and Nobel worthy buy without Helsinki, Iran kind of balances the scales. Jimmy's hand was in the whole Iran thing from earlier. He helped Khomeini return to Iran and also told the Shah to "get out". Shah was sick any probably losing anyway. Today, we might be able to pull off that extraction, but then is was a big reach. In hindsight, Jimmy should have asked Congress for a declaration of war for taking the Embassy. Of course it could not have passed but it was the right thing to do. Nothing short of war then and there would have prevent what came.

Thanks for the correction. Should have fact checked my memory. I'll blame the fact that I thought them BS at the time
Carter wasn't a crisis leader. Things moved fast and he couldn't make a decision. He's have been fine in peaceful times, but wasn't the man for turmoil.

I was not a Carter fan, but for all his admirable accomplishments, the one thing he did that I disliked was breaking the tradition of commenting on a successor's performance. Granted it was just another brick in the wall of civil discourse, but I think more gets accomplished with a sense of decorum.
 

5ringshowboutu

Sleeper cell 5 diamond Michelin porster
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
873

Right in Two​

Tool

Angels on the sideline
Puzzled and amused
Why did Father give these humans free will?
Now they're all confused
Don't these talking monkeys know that Eden has enough to go around?
Plenty in this holy garden, silly old monkeys
Where there's one you're bound to divide it
Right in two
Angels on the sideline
Baffled and confused
Father blessed them all with reason
And this is what they choose
Monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground
Silly monkeys give them thumbs
They forge a blade, and where there's one they're bound to divide it
Right in two
Right in two
Monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground
Silly monkeys give them thumbs, they make a club
And beat their brother down
How they survive so misguided is a mystery
Repugnant is a Creature who would squander the ability
To lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here
Cut and divide it all right in two
Cut and divide it all right in two
Cut and divide it all right in two
Cut and divide it all right in two
Fight over the clouds, over wind, over sky and
Fight over life, over blood, over air and light
Over love, over sun, over another
Fight for the time, for the one, for the rise and
Angels on the sideline again
Been so long with patience and reason
Angels on the sideline again
Wondering when this tug of war will end
Cut and divide it all right in two
Cut and divide it all right in two
Cut and divide it all right in two
Right in two
Right in two



Sorry, been listening to a lot of Tool lately. Heavy metal that somehow helps me calm my mind.
Monkey killing monkey killing...is my favorite part of the song.
 

Salt

"It's All About The Roo"
Joined
Jan 2, 2015
Messages
4,043
I'm familiar with this but trying to talk about it to non-religious people is useless. I think God issued a "kill them all" order that was disobeyed also. At this point I am more worried about our own problems. I do hope to be able to go to Jerusalem in 2022. We were going this year in February but cancelled two weeks before Trump cancelled flights from China. We could got in and out before flights got shut down from there but the virus was already spreading. Best guess I've ever made - well second to betting heavy on Canes in first NC game.
Would love to visit Jerusalem too and is on the bucket list. That would be an awesome experience!
 

5ringshowboutu

Sleeper cell 5 diamond Michelin porster
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
873
Heck, my kids just think I'm senile. I'm not tech savvy enough to mistaken as millennial. I expected to and was hoping to be gone before this came along. Now I find myself knocking clips on the table to shake the powder and looking for fields of fire while I ride around on my mobility scooter. My older one had room to mount a AR and carry 12 gauge in a old horse holster but my new titanium one is useless so it is side arms and one AR in hand plus maybe the 12 over the shoulder on strap. Meantime, my Rosary is on overtime.
Think?
 

pacusmc

Freshman
Joined
Aug 27, 2016
Messages
6,954
The best part of this 2020 is that we are literally setting up for a damn Fortnite Battle Royal on a global scale. Everything is a conspiracy and someone is out to get someone.
Aliens, Zionist, federal reserve, illuminaty, deep state, q anon, deez nuts anon your moms chin.

Nothing and I mean absolutely nothing can be a coincidence, human error, or just a freak occurrence.

Car got broken into? It was the clintons!
Got the runs? Deep state tapped into your web searchEs and sprinkled E. coli in your Starbucks (Ive never seen that barista before)

Price of gold went up? Zionist scheme to manipulate my 401k.
Dont drink the water!!

Anyone here remember in the 90’s when dudes thought Popeyes was only in the hood caise they were trying to sterilize black peole?
Or that Snapple has a picture of slave ships?
That’s soft compared to the sht were dealing with now.
 
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