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Opting Out & Canes Football

I think there is more to this story than we know.
We keep saying how easy it is for a kid to leave when the team isn’t winning. But how hard is it to stay when your a first rounder?

I think it’s a combination of things but the first one is brotherhood. I don’t think a true brotherhood has existed at Um since 2002.
Your gonna leave your team worse off so you can maybe not get drafted? Your not gonna try to get your fellow canes out of mediocrity?
what happen to ride with your brothers no matter what?

Second is trust in the staff. Your not gonna want to stay for coaches you don’t trust and one player that comes to mind is bandy.
Bandy went up against FSU’s best receiver and pinched him in the mouth all day. No way you say Bandy didn’t bleed this U. Imo he lost trust in either rumph or baker or both.

The final one is winning of course. It’s easy to make brothers if everyone is ballin. But that’s why we have leaders on the team.
I loved the fact that manny said the locker room should police itself but that’s only half the battle.
A good leader assesses what’s missinig like a good chef can taste a dish and know who fcked up.
If your squad ain’t clicking off the field, If a starter ain’t congratulating a walk on cause he just had a baby or isn’t gointo their bday party than something is up.
Im sure plenty in here played some kind of organized sport. And maybe some even reached district or state or played oos in whatever sport.
Those memories and friendships never fade.
If you run into your teamate at Walmart that you haven’t seen in 10 years but you won states with him, there is love there. There is a brotherhood.
A lot of these kids are used to winning.
The 20 and 21 classes are filled with state champions. Going from that to losing to wake forest doesn’t leave a good taste in your mouth.

Playing in the post season and winning championships since 9th grade then going to Um to play in some hick town with no fans for some weed wacker bowl has to suck and wanting out is about brainer............for some.

3 for me is the mental make up of a player.
Is he happy with his performance?
going to let any form of mediocrity dictate the decisions he makes for his future.
The nfl has more dudes playing and going to super bowls from sht schools and sht coaching than the tons of elite recruits that never made and nfl roster.
And why is that? Why does some kid from Toledo or Buffalo make the league and play ten years? Is it cause of all the winning and media coverage he got at Alcorn or Marshall?
Is it all the New Years 6 bowls he went to?
No it’s cause those players were determined to succeed regardless of what school they went to or what bowl game they went to.

no fckng way I’m gonna excuse some players poopy pants feeling sad or upset cause he’s not in Bama or Clemson situation.
That type of mentality is loser mentality. That poor me is sht mentality and is the reason you likely went as an udfa.
You can argue that one of the most talented receivers we’ve gotten in the last few years is Jt4. But his mentality was poor and look we’re he is now.
Anyone can evaluate talent. Heart and attitude are the hardest thing to evaluate.

We need to go to the last place team and ask ithe coach “which player you got that practices and prepares like the super bowl was tomorrow”? Then offer him.

Ask the coach of a first place team “what 3rd string player practices and prepares like he’s starting tomorrow”?
 
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Macca21 said:
Losing blows. Practice blows when you are losing, coaches lose their mind because loot is on the line. It breeds dysfunction in the locker room and in my case the bottle became a friend for a long time. My roommate bounced after a year after he got injured doing idiotic dry land training his frosh year. Kid was gone, he played in the show for a long time but he technically opted out. His reasoning echoed Rells comments. If I am going to kill myself I am going to get paid. Losing blows Rell. Solid points as always brosef.
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Thanks bro; I try to be objective as possible when I post, or come w/ as much facts as possible. I hate, absolutely HATE when these guys leave early, but the difference yesterday v. today is night & day. Guys came back to finish unfinished business yesteryear. What finished business have we had to take care of in the last 15 yrs? We know our boosters don’t compare to other squads. Well, the other thing we had going was 1st round U, but we barely can scrape getting guys drafted before the 4th consistently in the last 15 yrs.

Winning cures a whole bunch of apathy. Losing, and being mired in mediocrity breeds irrationality, dysfunction, & a poor culture both inside & outside the locker room. Hopefully we rock this season & give an incentive for the kids to come back to finish business.
 
It’s selection bias, culture and incentives.

The nfl-u thing impscts who comes and what they expect when they do.

Our culture has not been strong for too much of the past 2 decades. Kids are smart. They see a U that doesn’t give a **** about it’s program. Why should they sacrifice or risk their future for it? They see nfl players locally. They understand that life.

A mediocre team, revolving door coaches, little chance to shine in college, little chance to win big as a team, an admin that accepts this ... so less reward to return vs. go.

We act surprised.
 
pacusmc said:
I think there is more to this story than we know.
We keep saying how easy it is for a kid to leave when the team isn’t winning. But how hard is it to stay when your a first rounder?

I think it’s a combination of things but the first one is brotherhood. I don’t think a true brotherhood has existed at Um since 2002.
Your gonna leave your team worse off so you can maybe not get drafted? Your not gonna try to get your fellow canes out of mediocrity?
what happen to ride with your brothers no matter what?

Second is trust in the staff. Your not gonna want to stay for coaches you don’t trust and one player that comes to mind is bandy.
Bandy went up against FSU’s best receiver and pinched him in the mouth all day. No way you say Bandy didn’t bleed this U. Imo he lost trust in either rumph or baker or both.

The final one is winning of course. It’s easy to make brothers if everyone is ballin. But that’s why we have leaders on the team.
I loved the fact that manny said the locker room should police itself but that’s only half the battle.
A good leader assesses what’s missinig like a good chef can taste a dish and know who docked up.
If your squad ain’t clicking off the field. If a starter ain’t congratulating a walk on cause he just had a baby or isn’t gointo their bday party than something is up.
Im sure plenty in here played some kind of organized sport. And maybe some even reached district or state or played oos in whatever sport.
Those memories and friendships never fade.
If you run into your teamate at Walmart that you haven’t seen in 10 years but you won states with him, there is love there. There is a brotherhood.
A lot of to see kids are used to winning.
the 20 and 21 class are filled with state champions. Going from that to losing to wake forest doesn’t leave a good taste in your mouth.

playing in the post season and winning championships since 9th grade then going to Um to play in some hick town with no fans for some weed wacker bowl has to suck and wanting out is about brainer............for some.

3 for me is the mental make up of a player.
Is he happy with his performance?
going to let any form of mediocrity dictate the decisions he makes for his future.
The nfl has more dudes playing and going to super bowls from sht schools and sht coaching than the tons of elite recruits that never made and nfl roster.
And why is that? Why does some kid from Toledo or Buffalo make the league and play ten years? Is it cause of all the winning and media coverage he got at Alcorn or Marshall?
Is it all the New Years 6 bowls he went to?
No it’s cause those players were determined to succeed regardless of what school they went to or what bowl game they went to.

no fckng way I’m gonna excuse some players poopy pants feeling sad or upset cause he’s not in Bama or Clemson situation.
That type of mentality is loser mentality. That poor me is me sht mentality is the reason you likely went as an udfa.
You can argue that one of the most talented receivers we’ve gotten in the last few years is Jt4. But his mentality was poor and look we’re he is now.
Anyone can evaluate talent. Heart and attitude are the hardest thing to evaluate.

We need to go to the last place team and ask ithe coach “which player you got that practices and prepares like the super bowl was tomorrow”? Then offer him.

Ask the coach of a first place team “what 3rd string player practices and prepares like he’s starting tomorrow”?
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I agree w/ what u r saying, especially the brotherhood part.

However, let me touch on something you mentioned regarding the NFL and the vast amount of players coming from non P5 conferences:

U used Buffalo as an example. KJ Osborne came to mind. We saw KJ’s work ethic. Lowly rated kid & immediately became our WR leader. His former head coach was Lance Leipold. Lance was thee man in DIII football. He then took over a laughing stock Buffalo program (literal laughing stock). Got them bowl eligible in his 3rd yr (first time bowl eligible since 2013), won 10 games in his 4th yr (first time in program’s history), won their first bowl game in program’s history last season, and now is 3-0 this season. Lance gets the absolute best from his guys & his staff has changed the culture at Buffalo.

A lot of small time schools have great culture, great locker rooms, and leadership from the coaching staff; it’s been like that for a while, so while it’s true most of your top players are going to come from traditional P5 conferences, you’ll see rosters expand w some gems from smaller programs. I just watched Kent St, and their coach said players gotta earn their favorite #. His OL gotta be able to finish each other’s sentences. Sean Lewis got those guys completely bought in (and he’s a guy I would love for Miami to go after if the Manny experience fails).

All in all, u r right....it’s not just one factor, and you touched on the others. But culturally, we gotta get better or we’ll see the trend continue. Covid has exposed a lot of chit, imo.
 
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Rellyrell said:
Again, what’s the incentive? Yearby went from a solid sophomore year, to seeing his carries cut in half, yardage cut in half, playing on an avg team w/ children. What’s the incentive? Especially being that RBs life spans r short af. So does he stay where he becomes even less utilize, no championship aspiration & risk injury OR take a gamble & hope to catch on w a practice squad?

It’s not ideal, but the whole point was to give context as to why it’s more fashionable to leave this version of Miami football early. These opt outs have shown that kids will rather bounce when their team is sucking *** v. staying w/ no real incentive to stay. It’s not going away, EXCEPT for the programs that are developing their players & are in the hunt for championships.
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How about come in elite shape and have his head in the playbook after his sophomore year. . Not get beat out for carries by younger guys on the team because you started to have an attitude, didn’t work on blocking or running routes. Not have 2 children when you had all that god given talent to make into the NFL. No accountability.

The bottom line for supreme superstars, that require child care, a mom to have a job working near, a girlfriend at school or the community college.....

There are basically 4 -7 teams. It’s ruining and will eventually take down college football.

Fans will start to care less about college football and once $ starts moving it will either expose those schools or force a pay to play situation which has already been discussed.
 
Colombie said:
The MAIN issue to me is that our Canes players get really bad advice and are rarely successful when they do declare and leave early.

I could understand if they think they are going to be Top 10 picks but getting drafted 5th round just makes you look plain dumb.
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Advice at this point is a just an accelerant to kids who already are on their way out... they listen to whoever's reinforcing what they already have been thinking to do... with no championship or coaching worth apsiring to in the near future, why should they stay at Miami or any other mid tier program
 
kcdisalvo said:
How about come in elite shape and have his head in the playbook after his sophomore year. . Not get beat out for carries by younger guys on the team because you started to have an attitude, didn’t work on blocking or running routes. Not have 2 children when you had all that god given talent to make into the NFL. No accountability.

The bottom line for supreme superstars, that require child care, a mom to have a job working near, a girlfriend at school or the community college.....

There are basically 4 -7 teams. It’s ruining and will eventually take down college football.

Fans will start to care less about college football and once $ starts moving it will either expose those schools or force a pay to play situation which has already been discussed.
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I don’t get this view. fans get way too focused on recruiting rankings, imo and have a high degree of recency bias.

there are three top programs in Alabama, Clemson and ohio state.

Around them you have programs like uga (recruits well, doesn’t win big), ND (always gets hyped, rarely wins big), lsu (great talent, but just took a nose dive), texas (should be great, never is), oklahoma (generally outperforms its talent), wisconsin (generally outperforms its talent), florida (pretty decent but not quite at top level), fsu (dumpster fire), etc.

The top programs have three things: coaching, talent, and administrative commitment to the program.

In the past, there were usually a few top programs also, it’s just rotated over time. Nebraska and FSU were in this category for ages. Oklahoma and Miami were for stretches. Michigan, ND, PSU and USC had their moments.

A coach like Urban Meyer comes along, and Florida becomes elite. See how that works?

The thing to remember is unless you think there are fewer kids each year with talent, then talent is going to be more widely distributed than ever in the new initial counter enforcement era. What a program does with its talent is what matters.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
I don’t get this view. fans get way too focused on recruiting rankings, imo and have a high degree of recency bias.

there are three top programs in Alabama, Clemson and ohio state.

Around them you have programs like uga (recruits well, doesn’t win big), ND (always gets hyped, rarely wins big), lsu (great talent, but just took a nose dive), texas (should be great, never is), oklahoma (generally outperforms its talent), wisconsin (generally outperforms its talent), florida (pretty decent but not quite at top level), fsu (dumpster fire), etc.

The top programs have three things: coaching, talent, and administrative commitment to the program.

In the past, there were usually a few top programs also, it’s just rotated over time. Nebraska and FSU were in this category for ages. Oklahoma and Miami were for stretches. Michigan, ND, PSU and USC had their moments.

A coach like Urban Meyer comes along, and Florida becomes elite. See how that works?

The thing to remember is unless you think there are fewer kids each year with talent, then talent is going to be more widely distributed than ever in the new initial counter enforcement era. What a program does with its talent is what matters.
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Brother; u literally took the words out my mouth!
 
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Go Canes!! said:
You are a n ever ending fountain of hot takes man. The one about GR was particularly hot. An all time classic. Only you would use a SOPHOMORE who had nearly 20 sacks as an example of lack of develompment.

Btw, last year Bama, Ohio State, Georgia and LS had 24 underclassmen declare for the draft. Other than Clemson no team has kids staying for ANY of the reasons you just spewed out.

PS. We are 7-1.
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They're not hot takes. They're facts.

You reply to everything I post and its clear you don't read or comprehend what I write because you aren't even refuting my rhetoric. You just have snide comments about it. Keep crying.
 
Rellyrell said:
There’s been a lot of discussions on this board for years about our players, prematurely, leaving after substandard Jr years, and rightfully so.

I’ve mentioned before that I believe we have mass exodus b/c it’s not fun here, too much dysfunction, and there’s no incentive both financially or, more importantly, on the grid iron for these kids to stay. Furthermore, we’ve seen player’s draft grades plummet from their So. year to their Jr. year, and some are hoping scouts will give them a shot to fulfill a previous thought of said player. (See Brad Kaaya)

Now, what in the **** does that have to do with these opt outs? Today Roshad Bateman opted out. Why? Well, there’s a good chance it’s due to Minnesota sucking this yr, after having a very promising season last yr. He’s a projected 1st round pick, but his team took a huge step back & are completely out of contention, so what’s the incentive to stay? We saw Parrish Ford opt out in the middle of the season; same thing. Micah Parson saw the would be chit show develop at PSU, so what’s the incentive?

At the end of the day, these kids have aspirations & the majority are competitive. To contrast, why did majority of high profiled players from OSU, Clemson, Bama, UGA, OU, Oregon opt in? Boosters weren’t just the cause b/c NFL big bank will trump any booster bread; it’s b/c there was team incentives involved. Football is hella fun when u’re winning & you have a shot at a Nat’l title.

That’s the difference between Miami today & Miami yesterday. I’m not in So Fla, and I’ve never claimed to be an insider, but being that I’ve had god-sons & cousins play P5 football, along w/ friendship of former NFL players; we talk, & trust when I tell you that a kid is most likely to stay when they feel an accomplishment can be achieved. They will stay when the program is on par or they feel they can be developed further.

These kids have one shot; so while as a fan I might disagree & get angry b/c I know we could use them....if our program ain’t tight, or if they feel they are losing $ staying, they are going to look out for #1.

Is it foolish for our guys to leave early w a low to non draft grade? Absolutely. But if u’re not winning, the program is a mess, ur development is remaining stagnant or non existent (see Anthony Chickillo’s interview w Pittsburgh), then what’s the incentive, when the next play could be your last?
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Agreed to some extent. Miami has been the place where blue chips come to die for the past 15 years. That's going to affect recruiting and it's definitely going to make players want to opt out and leave early to get away from this mess, especially with coaching staffs constantly changing. But the flipside about having a winning program is that you're going to have more players with high draft grades, so more players are going to opt out. So winning doesn't necessarily solve the problem of players leaving early, but it definitely helps with recruiting.

We are also in a city with extremely high inequality, which IMO makes kids want to leave earlier than they would in a town like Clemson, SC, Baton Rouge, LA, or Columbus, OH. The bling in Miami is literally in your face everywhere you turn, so it's much more tempting for our players to sign on the dotted line and try to get a piece of the action than it would be in one of the smaller towns.
 
It’s it the guys who are projected first or second rounders that bother me. It's the guys who leave early when even casual fans know they’re not getting drafted. If you’re not having fun or feel you’re not getting good coaching, transfer. To be draft eligible, you have to be three years removed from high school. Most players have and undergrad degree or are very close to having one after three years. Graduate transfers can play immediately. Because I can tell you this, NFL coaches aren’t trying to “develop” undrafted guys or even late round picks. You don’t go to the pros to learn how to play. You better be 100% “developed” already. As for fun, the league doesn’t give a **** about making your job fun. The real world isn’t fun. You’re a grown man earning a paycheck. If you need special motivation to do your job, you’ll be replaced by someone who doesn’t. The NFL doesn’t have. Development league. Guys who get drafted early are expected to play. Guys who are drafted late or sign free agent deals get placed on the practice squad. Practice squad guys aren’t projects to be developed. They are tackling dummies. If you’re lucky enough to get a check as a practice squad player, there’s a good chance you won’t be getting one next year.
 
Rellyrell said:
I agree w/ what u r saying, especially the brotherhood part.

However, let me touch on something you mentioned regarding the NFL and the vast amount of players coming from non P5 conferences:

U used Buffalo as an example. KJ Osborne came to mind. We saw KJ’s work ethic. Lowly rated kid & immediately became our WR leader. His former head coach was Lance Leipold. Lance was thee man in DIII football. He then took over a laughing stock Buffalo program (literal laughing stock). Got them bowl eligible in his 3rd yr (first time bowl eligible since 2013), won 10 games in his 4th yr (first time in program’s history), won their first bowl game in program’s history last season, and now is 3-0 this season. Lance gets the absolute best from his guys & his staff has changed the culture at Buffalo.

A lot of small time schools have great culture, great locker rooms, and leadership from the coaching staff; it’s been like that for a while, so while it’s true most of your top players are going to come from traditional P5 conferences, you’ll see rosters expand w some gems from smaller programs. I just watched Kent St, and their coach said players gotta earn their favorite #. His OL gotta be able to finish each other’s sentences. Sean Lewis got those guys completely bought in (and he’s a guy I would love for Miami to go after if the Manny experience fails).

All in all, u r right....it’s not just one factor, and you touched on the others. But culturally, we gotta get better or we’ll see the trend continue. Covid has exposed a lot of chit, imo.
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Speaking of Buffalo & Kent State...what an offensive of explosion in this one. Buffalo’s RB put up 8 TDs in one game. Could’ve went for 9 but Leipold pulled him. Man, it’s crazy to see the U of Buffalo actually be a good football team. Same as Kent State. Smh. Weird times
 
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Rellyrell said:
I’ve always been a firm believer that culture breeds players. Think about it like this:

If you have a child that grows up in a dysfunctional household, what’s the likelihood they’ll become dysfunctional? Or if you have a child that grows up in a affluent household, what’s the likelihood they’ll grow up successful? Are there exceptions to the rule? Of course! But, as I posed to my brothers on here before: how is that 247 & all these recruiting services wrong on ONLY OUR PLAYERS? Lol.

Now; I’m not saying that some of our kids aren’t getting bad advice, b/c they absolutely are...but it’s much easier to follow bad advice when the culture is poor.
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Bad character/good character environments have a habit of self-propagating.
 
The incentive for these non draftable players is to get there college degree. To even coach in high school now you need a college degree. These guys need to think about love after football because their chances of making the league are slim.

I know Miami let’s you come back and get your degree but there is a huge difference in having your tution paided versus having room and board and the perks of being on a football a scholly
 
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lf26soda said:
Another example: Sam Cosmi and Asante Samuel jr.
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Man; I don’t just post chit just to post chit. The game has changed. If these programs ain’t doing right by these kids, they are either bouncing prematurely to the NFL, if they are not truly a 3 & done, or they r hitting the portal at an alarming rate.

If you ain’t winning, competing for titles, your recruiting classes can easily become a liability for future yrs.
 
Even when we had the elite players, how many of them actually stayed for their senior year?
 
Everyone in this thread trying to justify players quitting and opting out is just hilarious. What a bunch of loser millennial snowflake bubble wrapped gender fluid betas.

Especially the guy who said it’s ok to quit when you’re not winning. LOL. This generation is so soft, man...

There is ZERO justification for quitting on your team. Period. Ever.
 
RightSaidFred said:
Everyone in this thread trying to justify players quitting and opting out is just hilarious. What a bunch of loser millennial snowflake bubble wrapped gender fluid betas.

Especially the guy who said it’s ok to quit when you’re not winning. LOL. This generation is so soft, man...

There is ZERO justification for quitting on your team. Period. Ever.
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I’m not justifying chit v. pointing out the obvious. I said the NCAA needs to revisit this portal chit b/c it’s becoming ridiculous (in another thread). What was highlighted is the mentality of these young men. U r looking at it from a fan/older adult standpoint. I’m sure u’re big on “ur word is ur word,” which I am.....but, all this opting out & what teams are most affected by it have put a magnifying glass on this new mentality. This mentality has been prevalent here at this U for yrs, prior to the opt outs.
 
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