On the “win now” vs. “develop young players” debate

[Gables Cane]

Going 12-13 in your first two years will do this. It’s not even me trying to bring up the past, it’s just common sense.

For what the expectations were when we convinced him to take this job and leave Oregon, he hasn’t lived up to them yet. Not even close, and thus the pressure is ratcheted up. When you land a QB like Cam Ward, you go all in. Glad we’re doing so, now let’s close on some really talented upgrades like Martinez, Brown, two corners and at least one starting-caliber, game changing DT.

I'd modify the bolded part slightly. He has met expectations on the recruiting front. He is maniacal and one of the best. By the same token, he has fallen short as a gameday manager and head coach. My expectations were low to begin with but Mario is (at best) mediocre on game day.

 

[JG13]

They expected it to be ugly.

 

[rsa coral gables]

With this schedule….he should get 10 wins at least to make up for the bull**** from the last two seasons.

we've been saying this for many years

 

[TriStarCane]

This is too reductive. Evals / dev are my concern. Misevaluating high school prospects only to pass, miss, or settle for replacement or below level talent in the portal is going to put us perpetually behind. If we miss on our HS Top 75 DL eval, and then miss on the top 3 portal prospects, they can’t bring in a depth piece and tell us “we are killing it in the portal!” I don’t believe you. There are a lot of examples to provide. For every 1 Cam Ward we get 3 JAGs after blowing our HS evals. Then we bring in the JAGs and they take away from development opportunities for the younger guys. Then the young guys aren’t good enough so we replace them with more JAG transfers and high upside freshman that don’t pan out. And around we go…

 

[Ispyin]

You can do both. Mario is hitting the Portal like a maniac. He recruits high school like a maniac. We want the best roster in the ACC, and we want a wide margin. That’s a good thing.

How do you respond to the potential (as some have said) impact on team culture that can impact wins too as we know all too well if you’re cutting pay to players that stay (vs choosing to leave) which I realize happens in the nfl via “restructuring” or resigning when your free agent market isn’t what you hoped?

Difference of course is this is all new in cfb but for coaches, they encourage have been in those kids homes and in their phones since they were 1516 and an older versus just being drafted or sign as a free agency out of college, making promises to parents – especially with Mario and his strength here.

To be clear, I’m not arguing that it’s right or wrong. I’m purely asking how you think that aspect in any way offsets getting new talent if the locker room somehow loses cohesion as we move forward.

Before anybody comes at me I’m just asking for an opinion here, I realize it’s not only happening at Miami, but I only care about Miami and not every other coach or program has necessarily been as strong at recruiting or building relationships with parents as well as the players.

We have to do this to be competitive I’m just asking what are the downsides

 

[Da Jumbo Mutombo]

I don't disagree, he is working both sides quite well.

Over the long haul, I'm just concerned with "when" a HS recruit is deemed to be expendable.

I think this is the bingo response right here.

Nobody minds getting talent in the portal.

I think the concerning part is the amount of high level blue chip recruits that aren't lasting more than 2 years in the program

Cyrus Moss
Nyjalik Kelly
Jayden Wayne
Collins Acheampong
Trevonte Citizen
Jaleel Skinner
Chris Graves
Khaumari Rodgers
Jacurri Brown
Colbie Young
Kaleb Spencer

Thats a lot of young players not even getting to their 3rd season which is when development should start kicking in big time.

 

[Ispyin]

With this schedule….he should get 10 wins at least to make up for the bull**** from the last two seasons.

Wait, you think college football has a layaway plan like its target? It’s a new world man

 

[Geddy Lee]

Wait, you think college football has a layaway plan like its target? It’s a new world man

He’s a new world man

 

[ageezy]

A lot of people won't like it, but with the way the portal is now, if young guys aren't producing and are being paid highly, they will get recruited over in the portal for more proven guys. Similarly there are going to be guys every year that think they should be valued higher and are going to hold teams hostage for better NIL. It's the way CFB is now unfortunately. I have no issue with it since at the end of the day as the goal is to win games and whatever gets us there, I am cool with.

facts ... and it's unfortunately fair, we pay you x amount in NIL, we gotta have roi and the larger the number, the sooner the expectation on return on investment

 

[ageezy]

I think this is the bingo response right here.

Nobody minds getting talent in the portal.

I think the concerning part is the amount of high level blue chip recruits that aren't lasting more than 2 years in the program

Cyrus Moss
Nyjalik Kelly
Jayden Wayne
Collins Acheampong
Trevonte Citizen
Jaleel Skinner
Chris Graves
Khaumari Rodgers
Jacurri Brown
Colbie Young
Kaleb Spencer

Thats a lot of young players not even getting to their 3rd season which is when development should start kicking in big time.

not sure i see high level blue chip talent on that list ... maybe young

 

[JHallCanes]

I think this is the bingo response right here.

Nobody minds getting talent in the portal.

I think the concerning part is the amount of high level blue chip recruits that aren't lasting more than 2 years in the program

Cyrus Moss
Nyjalik Kelly
Jayden Wayne
Collins Acheampong
Trevonte Citizen
Jaleel Skinner
Chris Graves
Khaumari Rodgers
Jacurri Brown
Colbie Young
Kaleb Spencer

Thats a lot of young players not even getting to their 3rd season which is when development should start kicking in big time.

It’s fair. Not sure if 2022 was just a pure transitional anomaly or what but players and coaches are gone.

Not excusing Mario in any way but the 2023 class should give us some better insights. One thing that’s stood out to me since he’s been here is he doesn’t seem to do very well with making quick decisions.

It’s all still a bit unclear though for me to make too many definitives but the guys tenure here is littered with concerns (and positives of course)

 

[LuCane]

Needs to get atleast 9 wins to buy back some goodwill. Don’t care what happens we will take a step back in 2025 without cam

Double digit wins. I’m sorry. That’s the bar. It’d be the bar for anyone else, so Mario shouldn’t get an accommodation.

He has Cam Ward. He’s had a lot of resources. He’s had some time.

It’s time.

And, I’m sitting over here deathly afraid of our Safety/Nickel situation. So, unless we find a corner who can help us play man coverage inside or a Safety who can do the same (because as far as I know Powell can’t be in two places at once and we have to pray for his health), Mario better be open to scoring a lot of points and pushing the pace.

Double digit wins. By any means necessary.

 

[cway313]

not sure i see high level blue chip talent on that list ... maybe young

Did you say that when they committed?

 

[Da Jumbo Mutombo]

not sure i see high level blue chip talent on that list ... maybe young

Just meant from a definition standpoint. Blue chip is a 4 star or above.

Most of these kids were high 4 stars too.

I'm not injecting any opinion by stating what they were ranked coming out of HS.

 

[Schnelly'sPipe]

Double digit wins. I’m sorry. That’s the bar. It’d be the bar for anyone else, so Mario shouldn’t get an accommodation.

He has Cam Ward. He’s had a lot of resources. He’s had some time.

It’s time.

And, I’m sitting over here deathly afraid of our Safety/Nickel situation. So, unless we find a corner who can help us play man coverage inside or a Safety who can do the same (because as far as I know Powell can’t be in two places at once and we have to pray for his health), Mario better be open to scoring a lot of points and pushing the pace.

Double digit wins. By any means necessary.

You are correct the time is now.

 

[Dwinstitles]

This is too reductive. Evals / dev are my concern. Misevaluating high school prospects only to pass, miss, or settle for replacement or below level talent in the portal is going to put us perpetually behind. If we miss on our HS Top 75 DL eval, and then miss on the top 3 portal prospects, they can’t bring in a depth piece and tell us “we are killing it in the portal!” I don’t believe you. There are a lot of examples to provide. For every 1 Cam Ward we get 3 JAGs after blowing our HS evals. Then we bring in the JAGs and they take away from development opportunities for the younger guys. Then the young guys aren’t good enough so we replace them with more JAG transfers and high upside freshman that don’t pan out. And around we go…

This is fair


You can’t bring in jags from the portal agree

 

[Babscanes]

With this schedule….he should get 10 wins at least to make up for the bull**** from the last two seasons.

We’ve said this about the schedule for 20 years and yet here we are. I agree with you but history has show us to underperform lately. Let’s hope this year is different or Mario is in big trouble

 

[BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati]

Aside from obvious flops, I don't think any fair assessment can be made on portal moves (inbound and out) for another couple years. That's when we will see how these guys pan out:

Cyrus Moss
Nyjalik Kelly
Jayden Wayne
Collins Acheampong
Trevonte Citizen
Jaleel Skinner
Chris Graves
Khaumari Rodgers
Jacurri Brown
Colbie Young
Kaleb Spencer
(Credit @Da Jumbo Mutombo for the list)

Additionally, aside from being familiar names, what's the attachment to most of the guys who've left? I get that we are now thin at RB, DT and the secondary, but the games aren't played for several months. Once we fill in the roster and see how it plays out, FAIR assessments can be made.

Until then, any dramatic reactions should be saved for pre-teen slumber parties. Relax. Take it easy. Spark a spliff. Give someone a hug. Or keep over-reacting on CiS for the entertainment value.

 

[JHallCanes]

This is too reductive. Evals / dev are my concern. Misevaluating high school prospects only to pass, miss, or settle for replacement or below level talent in the portal is going to put us perpetually behind. If we miss on our HS Top 75 DL eval, and then miss on the top 3 portal prospects, they can’t bring in a depth piece and tell us “we are killing it in the portal!” I don’t believe you. There are a lot of examples to provide. For every 1 Cam Ward we get 3 JAGs after blowing our HS evals. Then we bring in the JAGs and they take away from development opportunities for the younger guys. Then the young guys aren’t good enough so we replace them with more JAG transfers and high upside freshman that don’t pan out. And around we go…

Think the frustration boils down to the fact that we actually have to cut guys now that we have a full roster

It’s one thing to take over a ****** program and bring in JAGs from the portal because you need a competitive practice environment, but it’s all together different when we gotta justify losing impactful players when we have guys that have no business being here anymore if we are a serious program

But the “player development” angle is always tough too. It’s too broad and people can cherry pick too easily

 

[DTP]

If we don't win BIGLY this year I am going to spend 20 hours a day on here being snarky fighting a "culture war" in my mind about things people said would happen but didn't happen. Just so I make sure people know they were WRONG on a message board for the same 4 people to like my comments.

Job is already taken