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On Josh Horton...

This Horton guy was a take in the manny days. Now that Mario’s in charge, we are going to be getting real players only.
 
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ben said:
This Horton guy was a take in the manny days. Now that Mario’s in charge, we are going to be getting real players only.
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He’s a 2023 guy isn’t he? He wasn’t a bad take, he just unfortunately had a lot of injuries. A lot is at stake this year, so we needed a dependable guy
 
ben said:
This Horton guy was a take in the manny days. Now that Mario’s in charge, we are going to be getting real players only.
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Not sure if serious or trolling.

The DT recruiting has still been not good enough under Mario. For every Justin Scott, there’s a Daylen Russell and Micah Newton.
 
DMoney said:
Just to put a bow on my thoughts: I absolutely believe in investing in DT. Big defensive linemen have been the most important commodity in college football for decades. They should be the top priority in the budget. And @htownkidd is right that we are looking thin in the future.

What I’m saying is that we already used a big bullet on David Blay, similar to Simeon Barrow last year. There is less desperation now. We still need depth, but in terms of big bullets, I want us to add more Justin Scotts out of high school that have a chance to go Day 1.

As we will see in the NFL Draft, most of the best big guys are expensive high school blue-chippers.
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We have not recruited DT well enough.

2022
Moten - solid get
Unless I’m missing someone, we didn’t add any other DT’s in this class (just a bunch of transfers)

2023
Horton
Again, let me know if I’m missing someone

2024
Russell - I would be really surprised if he ever gets serious snaps here
Jones - it’s crucial he develops and is good enough to be a rotational player this season
Scott - should be primed for a big season

2025
Simpson - early reports are he’s a steal
Newton - see Russell above. I’m not expecting much

So in 4 classes, we’ve signed 7 HS DT’s, and only one of them was a true blue chipper. Not nearly good enough, both from a depth and quality perspective. I never expected recruiting to be an issue under Mario but here we are…
 
Gables Canes said:
We have not recruited DT well enough.

2022
Moten - solid get
Unless I’m missing someone, we didn’t add any other DT’s in this class (just a bunch of transfers)

2023
Horton
Again, let me know if I’m missing someone

2024
Russell - I would be really surprised if he ever gets serious snaps here
Jones - it’s crucial he develops and is good enough to be a rotational player this season
Scott - should be primed for a big season

2025
Simpson - early reports are he’s a steal
Newton - see Russell above. I’m not expecting much

So in 4 classes, we’ve signed 7 HS DT’s, and only one of them was a true blue chipper. Not nearly good enough, both from a depth and quality perspective. I never expected recruiting to be an issue under Mario but here we are…
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I think 4* Collins Acheampong in 2023 was a DL projected to be a DT. But he never played here and transferred to UCLA. So far it looks like the recruiting services got that one wrong.
 
Gables Canes said:
We have not recruited DT well enough.
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I agree & it is the fatal flaw in his argument. But I will say having 2 DCs has undoubtedly negatively impacted the recruiting & development of the whole defense. There doesn't seem to be a focus with the type of players we want at each position.

Mario specialty being OL, he knows what he wants & can recruit to his specifications regardless of ranking.
Another example is penn st & their edges, they seem to have a type & they recruit that type regardless of rank. ****,
Dawson/Beard & the WR room. I wouldn't say we've recruited WR at an elite level but it's been good & made better through scheme & development.

If we got multiple true blue-chips at DT every year, we'd most likely be in a better spot but it doesn't seem feasible for us. Hopefully Heatherman is the one & we can finally have some consistenc.
 
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DT is forever the crown jewel position outside of QB. You simply do not win titles without elite DT play at the college level.

I think we need someone with size, more than we need a one-gap upfield guy. Not the Thomas Gore, Anthony Campbell undersized types. A legit 320-pound oak tree that you can guarantee 20 snaps a game to.

What we have right now isn't going to win the ACC, most likely. But D$ is saying this. We need a depth piece who can play a true role (hopefully a Georgia-level NT).
 
Lance Roffers said:
DT is forever the crown jewel position outside of QB. You simply do not win titles without elite DT play at the college level.

I think we need someone with size, more than we need a one-gap upfield guy. Not the Thomas Gore, Anthony Campbell undersized types. A legit 320-pound oak tree that you can guarantee 20 snaps a game to.

What we have right now isn't going to win the ACC, most likely. But D$ is saying this. We need a depth piece who can play a true role (hopefully a Georgia-level NT).
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Sounds like staff knows we are not there at DT but are not confident we can land a big time guy when you consider the bidding war there’s going to be for the one or two guys really worth it there at this point.

Basically rolling with what we have, but one injury and we are fooked. I hope this depth piece isn’t another Thomas gore.
 
Lance Roffers said:
DT is forever the crown jewel position outside of QB. You simply do not win titles without elite DT play at the college level.

I think we need someone with size, more than we need a one-gap upfield guy. Not the Thomas Gore, Anthony Campbell undersized types. A legit 320-pound oak tree that you can guarantee 20 snaps a game to.

What we have right now isn't going to win the ACC, most likely. But D$ is saying this. We need a depth piece who can play a true role (hopefully a Georgia-level NT).
Click to expand...

Respectfully, you're contradicting yourself Lance.
1. DT is crown jewel
2. we need a 320 pounder
3. What we have right now isn't going to win ACC
4. We need a depth piece who can play a true role

I 100% agree with 1-3. I have no idea why you defend D$ and argue for 4. The CROWN JEWEL cannot be a depth piece. If a Barrow or better enters the portal (BTW, we should have been back channeling one for the past six months), then we absolutely need to get him because, as you say, what we have right now isn't going to win the ACC. Full stop.
 
Ghurd8 said:
I agree & it is the fatal flaw in his argument. But I will say having 2 DCs has undoubtedly negatively impacted the recruiting & development of the whole defense. There doesn't seem to be a focus with the type of players we want at each position.

Mario specialty being OL, he knows what he wants & can recruit to his specifications regardless of ranking.
Another example is penn st & their edges, they seem to have a type & they recruit that type regardless of rank. ****,
Dawson/Beard & the WR room. I wouldn't say we've recruited WR at an elite level but it's been good & made better through scheme & development.

If we got multiple true blue-chips at DT every year, we'd most likely be in a better spot but it doesn't seem feasible for us. Hopefully Heatherman is the one & we can finally have some consistenc.
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*3 DC’s
 
Lance Roffers said:
DT is forever the crown jewel position outside of QB. You simply do not win titles without elite DT play at the college level.

I think we need someone with size, more than we need a one-gap upfield guy. Not the Thomas Gore, Anthony Campbell undersized types. A legit 320-pound oak tree that you can guarantee 20 snaps a game to.

What we have right now isn't going to win the ACC, most likely. But D$ is saying this. We need a depth piece who can play a true role (hopefully a Georgia-level NT).
Click to expand...
Wasn’t Anthony Campbell over 6’6 and 300 pds? I believe you may be confusing him with Marley Cook. Wasn’t ever a fan of Campbell but I believe his problem was that he just wasn’t any good not that he was undersized
 
grover said:
Respectfully, you're contradicting yourself Lance.
1. DT is crown jewel
2. we need a 320 pounder
3. What we have right now isn't going to win ACC
4. We need a depth piece who can play a true role

I 100% agree with 1-3. I have no idea why you defend D$ and argue for 4. The CROWN JEWEL cannot be a depth piece. If a Barrow or better enters the portal (BTW, we should have been back channeling one for the past six months), then we absolutely need to get him because, as you say, what we have right now isn't going to win the ACC. Full stop.
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Well, they believe Blay is that guy.

I'm saying we need an oak tree to play 20 snaps (All-American NT's often only play 20-30 snaps in today's game).

Scott 30 snaps, NT transfer 20 snaps, Blay 30-40 snaps, Moten 10-20 snaps. Other snaps you have just one DT and push a DE inside to rush.

It may turn out the coaches are overvaluing Blay, but they see him as the big-ticket. Scott as the 5-star ready to ascend.

I'm saying I hope the guy they bring in is an oak tree type (that will be $$$) and not a Thomas Gore one-gap type.
 
TRick72 said:
Wasn’t Anthony Campbell over 6’6 and 300 pds? I believe you may be confusing him with Marley Cook. Wasn’t ever a fan of Campbell but I believe his problem was that he just wasn’t any good not that he was undersized
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He was 6-6, 280 when he committed. Thinner frame, high-cut. Always a rush type, never a NT.
 
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Lance Roffers said:
Well, they believe Blay is that guy.

I'm saying we need an oak tree to play 20 snaps (All-American NT's often only play 20-30 snaps in today's game).

Scott 30 snaps, NT transfer 20 snaps, Blay 30-40 snaps, Moten 10-20 snaps. Other snaps you have just one DT and push a DE inside to rush.

It may turn out the coaches are overvaluing Blay, but they see him as the big-ticket. Scott as the 5-star ready to ascend.

I'm saying I hope the guy they bring in is an oak tree type (that will be $$$) and not a Thomas Gore one-gap type.
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Okay, gotcha. 100% agree on the oak tree type. Could be semantics. The right guy is going to be expensive, even if he's only playing 20-30 snaps as you say. My point is you pay the toll and not put the season in jeopardy.
 
DMoney said:
Like Patterson, this move did not catch us by surprise. Horton barely played in spring and has been injured for much of his Miami tenure. He had a ton of hype coming in (from both the staff and myself) coming off his breakout senior season, and he has all the physical tools. He's one of the first guy people spot when they come to practice. Unfortunately, he's usually off to the side.

Entering Year 3, this is a situation where availability and consistency are the primary issues. I expect Miami to pursue a veteran at the 4th DT spot.
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This dude was always as jag
We lied to ourselves bc the dt recruiting was so bad
 
Ghurd8 said:
I agree & it is the fatal flaw in his argument. But I will say having 2 DCs has undoubtedly negatively impacted the recruiting & development of the whole defense. There doesn't seem to be a focus with the type of players we want at each position.

Mario specialty being OL, he knows what he wants & can recruit to his specifications regardless of ranking.
Another example is penn st & their edges, they seem to have a type & they recruit that type regardless of rank. ****,
Dawson/Beard & the WR room. I wouldn't say we've recruited WR at an elite level but it's been good & made better through scheme & development.

If we got multiple true blue-chips at DT every year, we'd most likely be in a better spot but it doesn't seem feasible for us. Hopefully Heatherman is the one & we can finally have some consistenc.
Click to expand...
Miami wins the ACC every year if they recruit every DT class like the 24’ class. Not once every 4 years.
 
Ghurd8 said:
Just curious, what level of education do you have?
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