Notre Lame in talks to join ACC as full member

[Canefan@ArkSt]

What about Penn State? A significant portion of their alumni base has always grumbled about being in the Big 10. They don't think they're treated fairly and miss the eastern competition they used to have. If they had the opportunity to make the move with Notre Dame, it might be tempting.

Along with a yearly rival game with Pitt.

 

[Cane707]

What's with the PSU talk? Getting Notre Dame as a full member is possible although probably not likely. PSU is a pure impossible fantasy.

 

[Cane Dynasty]

What's with the PSU talk? Getting Notre Dame as a full member is possible although probably not likely. PSU is a pure impossible fantasy.

PSU is a horrible fantasy.

 

[Pete]

PSU would seem to be a good choice location wise but they have one PR disaster one after another.
That would not reflect well on the ACC.But they would fill stadiums.

 

[kryptonite]

I'm completely lost. Why do we think that Texas, WVU, and/or PSU make sense/want to join? If we're just throwing names out, how about USC? Good academics and sports, they'd be a great fit.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I'm completely lost. Why do we think that Texas, WVU, and/or PSU make sense/want to join? If we're just throwing names out, how about USC? Good academics and sports, they'd be a great fit.

WVU "makes sense" as a former BE team. As for "wants to join", are you f-ing kidding? I know someone who worked in their Athletic Department during the "failed SEC bid/successful Big 12 bid" time, and I guarantee you that the WVU administration would collectively suck Julio Frenk's bare chest to get in.

PSU "makes sense" from a geographic standpoint. As for "wants to join", I think that the money is way too good in the Big 10 right now, but pending any new math computations from the ACC Network and/or Notre Dame addition, it COULD make a slightly more balanced financial argument, and maybe PSU isn't completely happy in the Big 10? Seems like there have been, ahem, bigger stories coming out of PSU over the last few years.

Texas "makes sense" only because they were "thisclose" to joining the Pac 12 a few years ago, which is just about as far removed from their homebase as the ACC is. As for the "wants to join", I think it is always because UT is looking out for itself, rather than the Big 12, and if things keep trending towards 16 teams for the ACC (with the SEC and Big 10 sure to follow), then they have to look out for #1 . I don't know if Texas would jump to the ACC without exhausting all avenues to the SEC, and I'm not sure if Texas A&M could cobble together a "veto coalition" to block Texas, the way that UF, USC, UGa, and UK formed a veto bloc to prevent the SEC from inviting UM, F$U, Clemson, GaTech and/or Louisville.

Anyhow, I'd love to get Texas, let the SEC get OU and OSU, the Big 10 get KU and KSU, and the fires of **** get WVU and Baylor. The only other acceptable variation of that would be the ACC getting PSU and the Big 10 getting UT, KU, and KSU.

 

[kryptonite]

I'm completely lost. Why do we think that Texas, WVU, and/or PSU make sense/want to join? If we're just throwing names out, how about USC? Good academics and sports, they'd be a great fit.

WVU "makes sense" as a former BE team. As for "wants to join", are you f-ing kidding? I know someone who worked in their Athletic Department during the "failed SEC bid/successful Big 12 bid" time, and I guarantee you that the WVU administration would collectively suck Julio Frenk's bare chest to get in.

PSU "makes sense" from a geographic standpoint. As for "wants to join", I think that the money is way too good in the Big 10 right now, but pending any new math computations from the ACC Network and/or Notre Dame addition, it COULD make a slightly more balanced financial argument, and maybe PSU isn't completely happy in the Big 10? Seems like there have been, ahem, bigger stories coming out of PSU over the last few years.

Texas "makes sense" only because they were "thisclose" to joining the Pac 12 a few years ago, which is just about as far removed from their homebase as the ACC is. As for the "wants to join", I think it is always because UT is looking out for itself, rather than the Big 12, and if things keep trending towards 16 teams for the ACC (with the SEC and Big 10 sure to follow), then they have to look out for #1 . I don't know if Texas would jump to the ACC without exhausting all avenues to the SEC, and I'm not sure if Texas A&M could cobble together a "veto coalition" to block Texas, the way that UF, USC, UGa, and UK formed a veto bloc to prevent the SEC from inviting UM, F$U, Clemson, GaTech and/or Louisville.

Anyhow, I'd love to get Texas, let the SEC get OU and OSU, the Big 10 get KU and KSU, and the fires of **** get WVU and Baylor. The only other acceptable variation of that would be the ACC getting PSU and the Big 10 getting UT, KU, and KSU.

WVU doesn't fit academically or much in the way of offer new viewers.

PSU has nothing to gain by jumping to the ACC.

Texas has the SEC literally sitting between them and the ACC. With all that money, I would think the SEC could convince TAMU to STFU and say yes if Texas were looking for a new home.

After having looked a little more closely, I see your points but still don't think any of these schools make sense in any sense other than "we need 2 more schools so..." and I guess that's where we are right now.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I'm completely lost. Why do we think that Texas, WVU, and/or PSU make sense/want to join? If we're just throwing names out, how about USC? Good academics and sports, they'd be a great fit.

WVU "makes sense" as a former BE team. As for "wants to join", are you f-ing kidding? I know someone who worked in their Athletic Department during the "failed SEC bid/successful Big 12 bid" time, and I guarantee you that the WVU administration would collectively suck Julio Frenk's bare chest to get in.

PSU "makes sense" from a geographic standpoint. As for "wants to join", I think that the money is way too good in the Big 10 right now, but pending any new math computations from the ACC Network and/or Notre Dame addition, it COULD make a slightly more balanced financial argument, and maybe PSU isn't completely happy in the Big 10? Seems like there have been, ahem, bigger stories coming out of PSU over the last few years.

Texas "makes sense" only because they were "thisclose" to joining the Pac 12 a few years ago, which is just about as far removed from their homebase as the ACC is. As for the "wants to join", I think it is always because UT is looking out for itself, rather than the Big 12, and if things keep trending towards 16 teams for the ACC (with the SEC and Big 10 sure to follow), then they have to look out for [URL=https://www.canesinsight.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 [/URL] . I don't know if Texas would jump to the ACC without exhausting all avenues to the SEC, and I'm not sure if Texas A&M could cobble together a "veto coalition" to block Texas, the way that UF, USC, UGa, and UK formed a veto bloc to prevent the SEC from inviting UM, F$U, Clemson, GaTech and/or Louisville.

Anyhow, I'd love to get Texas, let the SEC get OU and OSU, the Big 10 get KU and KSU, and the fires of **** get WVU and Baylor. The only other acceptable variation of that would be the ACC getting PSU and the Big 10 getting UT, KU, and KSU.

WVU doesn't fit academically or much in the way of offer new viewers.

PSU has nothing to gain by jumping to the ACC.

Texas has the SEC literally sitting between them and the ACC. With all that money, I would think the SEC could convince TAMU to STFU and say yes if Texas were looking for a new home.

After having looked a little more closely, I see your points but still don't think any of these schools make sense in any sense other than "we need 2 more schools so..." and I guess that's where we are right now.

I'm not sure I understand your post.

First, I never said that WVU "fit academically", I'm only giving you the reasons why they make sense. It wasn't an exhaustive analysis of all of the pros and cons. As I pointed out at the end, I truly hope WVU is holding an empty bag at the end of this round of musical chairs. And while WV is not the biggest media market unto itself, they would bring the entire state, plus a big chunk of Western PA and Eastern OH. Pittsburgh and Cleveland TV markets deliver solid numbers for WVU games. Not that it makes them worth taking, with the negatives, but let's not pretend they have no attributes either.

Whether you think that PSU has "nothing to gain" is just an overly simple analysis. Yes, I think that the Big 10 Network will keep PSU in the Big 10, but there are lots of reasons why their fanbase wouldn't mind seeing ACC games instead of Big 10 games. I know JoePa is dead and all, but for years PSU dreamed of being a dominant part of an eastern time zone conference. The Big 10 is still pretty solid, but if you have a few more years of Michigan-Ohio State domination (and PSU being overlooked for the Final 4), you could see a pathway to open-mindedness on the part of PSU. Frankly, I think a 1-year outcome is not enough to think about conference-swapping, but everyone is impatient these days.

As for Texas, the SEC was sitting next to them when they almost jumped to the Pac 10. And the Pac 10 deal still almost happened. Here's what is interesting. The SEC has already cashed in on its "TV partners pay a premium for expanding into a new state" chips when it comes to Texas. Yes, adding UT would add to the ratings, but it won't add to the money that cable networks and cable companies have to pay to the SEC for expansion. Adding Oklahoma to the footprint would help A LOT. Texas is an interesting "hey, let me think about this for a minute" addition to any conference because of their past history of trying to dominate their conference partners, as well as their "taking care of #1 " mentality. The SEC has been steering clear of establishing more than one school in one state for a while now, and they would have liked to have taken UNC from the ACC with no other NC schools being invited. VaTech would love to go to the SEC without UVa too. WVU, for all of its rancidness, still came surprisingly close to getting an SEC bid last time around. I still think that Texas is simply big enough for anyone to covet, but you simply never know how the votes will go down.

Finally, I'm not sure why you mentioned "we need 2 more schools so" in relation to the ACC. The whole discussion is predicated on Notre Dame joining, which puts us at 15. We would only take 1 more school.

WVU and UConn would jump easily, based on a lot of factors, if invited.

PSU and Texas are the ones that are more complicated.

I think a lot of folks on the board are seeing the ACC becoming a more desirable conference, both among coaches, and with the results of national championship games in football and hoops. Then you add in the impending ACC Network. I don't think we have surpassed the SEC YET, but it's becoming a more interesting conversation. I think we are very close to the Big 10 in the academic sense, I think we are very close to the SEC in the sporting sense, and we might be getting very close in the monetary sense, even after sporting the others a 10 year head start.

So, yes, I see PLENTY of reasons why the conference would NOT take WVU, PSU, or UT, and/or reasons why they would not choose us, but I think that outside of those schools and UConn, we are not going to have to dip down that low for Team 16. Cincinnati suffers some of the same issues as WVU/UConn. As much as I admire UCF, I think UCF and USF should be a package deal in a conference. Memphis and ECU are not worthy.

I mean, seriously, if you hold a press conference to announce ND is joining, what other school will not be a total letdown in comparison? UT or PSU would astound. WVU and UConn would garner a response of "oh, yeah, I understand". Any other schools will raise eyebrows.

 

[CaneFan79]

Does anyone actively promoting Cincy in this thread actually live in Southwest Ohio or even Northern Kentucky? Cincy is NOT analogous to Miami. Cincy is the largest (barely) Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) of the Big 3 Ohio cities, but that MSA includes Kentucky and even Indiana, both places that have very little fan interest in a campus that is in a depressed area of a city they don't identify with...it's either O$Uck or UK by far!

Atleast cinn add to the footprint, large population, with a new recruiting territory. While ucnn and west va provides none of that

What footprint/large population? The city itself has less than 300K people and I, being on the ground in Southwest Ohio can tell you that the Miami of Ohio grads have more school spirit than the UC grads; most Bearcat alums are quite ambivelent about the school and those with more passion are interested in the basketball team. Luke Fickell, a guy Al outcoached is now their football HC! New recruiting territory? You want more Alex Galls? Heck, Miami has been historically better in Northeast Ohio for recruiting, so lets get John Carroll, Akron, Case Western, and Cleveland State into the ACC!

As Tad first mentioned, you don't bring in Notre Dame with a wannabe. You make a double power move and really shake up CFB.

 

[kryptonite]

I'm completely lost. Why do we think that Texas, WVU, and/or PSU make sense/want to join? If we're just throwing names out, how about USC? Good academics and sports, they'd be a great fit.

WVU "makes sense" as a former BE team. As for "wants to join", are you f-ing kidding? I know someone who worked in their Athletic Department during the "failed SEC bid/successful Big 12 bid" time, and I guarantee you that the WVU administration would collectively suck Julio Frenk's bare chest to get in.

PSU "makes sense" from a geographic standpoint. As for "wants to join", I think that the money is way too good in the Big 10 right now, but pending any new math computations from the ACC Network and/or Notre Dame addition, it COULD make a slightly more balanced financial argument, and maybe PSU isn't completely happy in the Big 10? Seems like there have been, ahem, bigger stories coming out of PSU over the last few years.

Texas "makes sense" only because they were "thisclose" to joining the Pac 12 a few years ago, which is just about as far removed from their homebase as the ACC is. As for the "wants to join", I think it is always because UT is looking out for itself, rather than the Big 12, and if things keep trending towards 16 teams for the ACC (with the SEC and Big 10 sure to follow), then they have to look out for [URL=https://www.canesinsight.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 [/URL] . I don't know if Texas would jump to the ACC without exhausting all avenues to the SEC, and I'm not sure if Texas A&M could cobble together a "veto coalition" to block Texas, the way that UF, USC, UGa, and UK formed a veto bloc to prevent the SEC from inviting UM, F$U, Clemson, GaTech and/or Louisville.

Anyhow, I'd love to get Texas, let the SEC get OU and OSU, the Big 10 get KU and KSU, and the fires of **** get WVU and Baylor. The only other acceptable variation of that would be the ACC getting PSU and the Big 10 getting UT, KU, and KSU.

WVU doesn't fit academically or much in the way of offer new viewers.

PSU has nothing to gain by jumping to the ACC.

Texas has the SEC literally sitting between them and the ACC. With all that money, I would think the SEC could convince TAMU to STFU and say yes if Texas were looking for a new home.

After having looked a little more closely, I see your points but still don't think any of these schools make sense in any sense other than "we need 2 more schools so..." and I guess that's where we are right now.

I'm not sure I understand your post.

First, I never said that WVU "fit academically", I'm only giving you the reasons why they make sense. It wasn't an exhaustive analysis of all of the pros and cons. As I pointed out at the end, I truly hope WVU is holding an empty bag at the end of this round of musical chairs. And while WV is not the biggest media market unto itself, they would bring the entire state, plus a big chunk of Western PA and Eastern OH. Pittsburgh and Cleveland TV markets deliver solid numbers for WVU games. Not that it makes them worth taking, with the negatives, but let's not pretend they have no attributes either.

Whether you think that PSU has "nothing to gain" is just an overly simple analysis. Yes, I think that the Big 10 Network will keep PSU in the Big 10, but there are lots of reasons why their fanbase wouldn't mind seeing ACC games instead of Big 10 games. I know JoePa is dead and all, but for years PSU dreamed of being a dominant part of an eastern time zone conference. The Big 10 is still pretty solid, but if you have a few more years of Michigan-Ohio State domination (and PSU being overlooked for the Final 4), you could see a pathway to open-mindedness on the part of PSU. Frankly, I think a 1-year outcome is not enough to think about conference-swapping, but everyone is impatient these days.

As for Texas, the SEC was sitting next to them when they almost jumped to the Pac 10. And the Pac 10 deal still almost happened. Here's what is interesting. The SEC has already cashed in on its "TV partners pay a premium for expanding into a new state" chips when it comes to Texas. Yes, adding UT would add to the ratings, but it won't add to the money that cable networks and cable companies have to pay to the SEC for expansion. Adding Oklahoma to the footprint would help A LOT. Texas is an interesting "hey, let me think about this for a minute" addition to any conference because of their past history of trying to dominate their conference partners, as well as their "taking care of #1 " mentality. The SEC has been steering clear of establishing more than one school in one state for a while now, and they would have liked to have taken UNC from the ACC with no other NC schools being invited. VaTech would love to go to the SEC without UVa too. WVU, for all of its rancidness, still came surprisingly close to getting an SEC bid last time around. I still think that Texas is simply big enough for anyone to covet, but you simply never know how the votes will go down.

Finally, I'm not sure why you mentioned "we need 2 more schools so" in relation to the ACC. The whole discussion is predicated on Notre Dame joining, which puts us at 15. We would only take 1 more school.

WVU and UConn would jump easily, based on a lot of factors, if invited.

PSU and Texas are the ones that are more complicated.

I think a lot of folks on the board are seeing the ACC becoming a more desirable conference, both among coaches, and with the results of national championship games in football and hoops. Then you add in the impending ACC Network. I don't think we have surpassed the SEC YET, but it's becoming a more interesting conversation. I think we are very close to the Big 10 in the academic sense, I think we are very close to the SEC in the sporting sense, and we might be getting very close in the monetary sense, even after sporting the others a 10 year head start.

So, yes, I see PLENTY of reasons why the conference would NOT take WVU, PSU, or UT, and/or reasons why they would not choose us, but I think that outside of those schools and UConn, we are not going to have to dip down that low for Team 16. Cincinnati suffers some of the same issues as WVU/UConn. As much as I admire UCF, I think UCF and USF should be a package deal in a conference. Memphis and ECU are not worthy.

I mean, seriously, if you hold a press conference to announce ND is joining, what other school will not be a total letdown in comparison? UT or PSU would astound. WVU and UConn would garner a response of "oh, yeah, I understand". Any other schools will raise eyebrows.

You say that you weren't doing an exhaustive analysis, and neither was I. I was just stating that I think the biggest factor regarding each of these schools joining the ACC is a negative one. Sure, there are reasons for the ACC to want them and/or for them to want in, but in my view the negatives I mentioned outweigh those positives.

I respect the amount of time that you've put into thinking about this, so I'll mention a few things...

1. I think that there needs to be a compelling reason for a school to leave a conference, and PSU doesn't have one. You can argue that the ACC is the better conference, but the BIG is doing just fine and I think they're a better cultural fit there.
2. Regarding Texas, I'm just old school...I think that there should be some geographic/cultural reason behind conference membership. Obviously I'm in the minority on that, but that's how I feel. Viewed in that light, Texas makes no sense. Of course they are basically an underachieving pot of gold so I see how the ACC would want them.
3. Nobody wants WVU.
4. 16 teams should probably happen, and we could do much worse than ND, but I'm just not feeling the love. I think we've got enough ex Big East teams that are bad at football and as I think those are the only kind we're likely to end up with. So here's me not being too pumped about expansion.

 

[mirednmediocrity2]

What's with the PSU talk? Getting Notre Dame as a full member is possible although probably not likely. PSU is a pure impossible fantasy.

PSU is a horrible fantasy.

Yes. We don't need Kiddie Fiddler U in the ACC. Far worse even than the snaggled toothed couch burning Mountaineers. At least they only sexually abuse their sisters and farm animals, not little kids.

 

[villain]

Does anyone actively promoting Cincy in this thread actually live in Southwest Ohio or even Northern Kentucky? Cincy is NOT analogous to Miami. Cincy is the largest (barely) Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) of the Big 3 Ohio cities, but that MSA includes Kentucky and even Indiana, both places that have very little fan interest in a campus that is in a depressed area of a city they don't identify with...it's either O$Uck or UK by far!

Atleast cinn add to the footprint, large population, with a new recruiting territory. While ucnn and west va provides none of that

What footprint/large population? The city itself has less than 300K people and I, being on the ground in Southwest Ohio can tell you that the Miami of Ohio grads have more school spirit than the UC grads; most Bearcat alums are quite ambivelent about the school and those with more passion are interested in the basketball team. Luke Fickell, a guy Al outcoached is now their football HC! New recruiting territory? You want more Alex Galls? Heck, Miami has been historically better in Northeast Ohio for recruiting, so lets get John Carroll, Akron, Case Western, and Cleveland State into the ACC!

As Tad first mentioned, you don't bring in Notre Dame with a wannabe. You make a double power move and really shake up CFB.

Ohio is maybe number 5 th or 6th in producing talent for the nfl. For some reason Michigan is only school able to pull top talent from ohio.due to no other school having presence. Also, Cinn is not large market for tvs, but look at the surrounding states that you might be able to infiltrate areas such as wva, south mich, west. Pa and etc...

 

[Canedude08]

The same UCONN that sued Miami for leaving the Big East, uhhh, no. All they have is a decent BB program, their FB program is in shambles and they have absolutely zero draw.

The UConn program that won a couple NCAA Championship the last few years is only decent? Facts are not your strong suit. They have won 4 of the last 13.

The ACC isnt a basketball conference / its balanced excelling in both football and basketball / gtfoh with this basketball conference bs / UCONN is a joke of a football program and doesnt belong anywhere near the ACC

Just the facts. The ACC is the NCAA prime basketball conference. Basketball is more important than football to the majority of ACC schools. Notre Dame put their basketball team into the ACC for that reason.

Thats actually a false narrative

UM, FSU, Clemson, BC, GT, VT, PITT, NC state and UVA are all football first.

UVA has never been football first, outside of a couple of years under Welsh. They are a basketball school, and that's being generous. Miami fans complain about the administration hating athletics, UVA's administration craps on the athletic department almost daily, it's a snob school that doesn't want "Those People" sullying the "Grounds".