Nfl free agency thread

[BoxingRobes]

CMac is not a cog in Carolina’s offense. He is the offense.

I get not paying RBs on their second contract because they break down. But special RBs change your offense, and there is no issue using first round picks on truly special backs.

They've won a total of 12 games since he's really become the face of that franchise and "the offense".

If your RB is your offense, you stink. Which is the point.

 

[DMoney]

@DMoney a late 1st on J Taylor or CEH is totally reasonable imo. Can't forget the 5th year option is excellent value for a top tier back and then you hopefully get a nice comp pick after those 5 years of cheap value.

I agree. Taylor is still being underrated nationally. This guy is the most productive back in the draft, the most explosive athlete, he’s big, physical and durable.

Backs like Taylor and Dillon might not make you miss, but they don’t need to. I didn’t see Tennessee, Baltimore or San Francisco’s backs making people miss and they ran all over everyone.

 

[brock]

@DMoney a late 1st on J Taylor or CEH is totally reasonable imo. Can't forget the 5th year option is excellent value for a top tier back and then you hopefully get a nice comp pick after those 5 years of cheap value.



Who are you gonna get in free agency at a reasonable price where you're paying for future performance not past production? Dion Lewis is already past his prime, for example, and would still cost more than a 2nd rd pick.

Pass game RB is a crucial position with Brady. Bucs have whiffed on most 2nd rounders under Licht. If you can find a plug and play impact RB it's a no brainer versus getting a 2nd or 3rd tier guy at another position that's not as big a need. Like a 2nd round pass rusher is more likely to bust than not. And WR would be nice but we can find a good one even later and CEH will help more than any rookie WR.



Most of the guys on that list are just not very good. Abdullah and Ball had some hype but I didn't like them. Walton has average traits and still only busted because of off field. Singletary and Ellington have some juice and they made impacts. Riddick was a very good 3rd down back and CEH is more dynamic.

If the argument is that short plodders like Stepfan Taylor or Joe Randle have a short shelf life...well that's self evident. I wouldn't draft those types period they are the epitome of replaceable.

There are options out there, Lamar Miller would complement well with Ronald jones and Chris Thompson who was with the redskins would be a good fit for a pass catching rb. I truly Believe Ronald jones has star ability at rb so I’m not worried about drafting a starter in an early rounds and if I did I wouldn’t draft edwards helaire with a pick that early which would be what the 46th or 47th pick? Get me deejay Dallas who is a pass catching back in round 4 or 5. Or like i said Anthony McFarland and Maybe Keshawn Vaughn from vandy who was very good. There will still be quality backs in rounds 3-5 where we don’t have to spend a first or second round pick on one of them. I might Be fine spending a second round pick on someone like deandre swift or Jonathan Taylor but other than that? Na, plus I think Swift is getting first round buzz anyway. I like Jonathan Taylor the best regardless

 

[DMoney]

They've won a total of 12 games since he's really become the face of that franchise and "the offense".

If your RB is your offense, you stink. Which is the point.

Carolina stinks because the rest of the team is a disaster. He carried them.

The ‘18 Rams are an example of an elite RB in a dynamic offense. They were smart to spend a high pick on Gurley. Their only mistake was extending him as he was breaking down.

 

[BoxingRobes]

Carolina stinks because the rest of the team is a disaster. He carried them.

The ‘18 Rams are an example of an elite RB in a dynamic offense. They were smart to spend a high pick on Gurley. Their only mistake was extending him as he was breaking down.

Again, which is the point...transfer his value elsewhere that matters. Carrying a team to 12 wins in two years isn't something to note.

2017/2018 Rams, I'd argue are more of a result of Jared Goff playing out of his mind and above expectation than Todd Gurley who had career seasons in years 3/4 of his NFL career with Goff playing well. Not the other way around, as you are insinuating here.

Two seasons before Goff became the legitimate starter and they hired McVay with Todd Gurley as their focal point of the offense...they won 11 total games. Last year, with ****ty Goff, they won 9.

 

[bshaw28]

Again, which is the point...transfer his value elsewhere that matters. Carrying a team to 12 wins in two years isn't something to note.

2017/2018 Rams, I'd argue are more of a result of Jared Goff playing out of his mind and above expectation than Todd Gurley who had career seasons in years 3/4 of his NFL career with Goff playing well. Not the other way around, as you are insinuating here.

Two seasons before Goff became the legitimate starter and they hired McVay with Todd Gurley as their focal point of the offense...they won 11 total games. Last year, with ****ty Goff, they won 9.

Goff was largely effective because of play action and the threat of Gurley. When the run game isn't going, Goff won't be very good.

Same with Henry and Tannehill. Without the threat of Henry, there's not much Tannehill can do. When Henry is rolling, he can carry Tannehill and Mariotta to playoff wins.

 

[bshaw28]

@DMoney a late 1st on J Taylor or CEH is totally reasonable imo. Can't forget the 5th year option is excellent value for a top tier back and then you hopefully get a nice comp pick after those 5 years of cheap value.

Most of the guys on that list are just not very good. Abdullah and Ball had some hype but I didn't like them. Walton has average traits and still only busted because of off field. Singletary and Ellington have some juice and they made impacts. Riddick was a very good 3rd down back and CEH is more dynamic.

If the argument is that short plodders like Stepfan Taylor or Joe Randle have a short shelf life...well that's self evident. I wouldn't draft those types period they are the epitome of replaceable.

The point is there's 20 years of evidence that says any small & slow RB has almost no chance of becoming a dynamic player.

If a team is thinking of drafting CEH in the first 3 Rounds, they're betting on a very long shot.

 

[BoxingRobes]

Goff was largely effective because of play action and the threat of Gurley. When the run game isn't going, Goff won't be very good.

Same with Henry and Tannehill. Without the threat of Henry, there's not much Tannehill can do. When Henry is rolling, he can carry Tannehill and Mariotta to playoff wins.

I'd just reverse what you say and say that effective QB play allows players like Gurley and Henry to do their thing...not the other way around.

 

[Poptimus]

CEH reminds me of a poor man's Mark Ingram. I would not draft him before the 3rd round, but I suspect he goes in the 2nd, partly because he gets that national championship bump in draft stock.

 

[bshaw28]

I'd just reverse what you say and say that effective QB play allows players like Gurley and Henry to do their thing...not the other way around.

So in the Titans playoff wins last year....

vs NE - Tannehill's 72 yds passing allowed Henry to run for 182 yds?
vs Bal - Tannehill's 88 yds passing allowed Henry to run for 195 yds?

I don't see it that way - but we just disagree on that.

It's a sliding scale IMO.

There's 5-7 great QB's that can lift their RB/WR's level of play. Weapons at RB/WR's aren't as necessary when you have a great QB.

For 25 team that don't have great QB play but want to be competitive - Weapons at RB/WR's are essential for the QB to play well.

 

[gogeta4]

While I get the logic - this is where the hole in the market I'm talking about has been created.

The Top 30 RB's average $5.5 million per season. The highest paid Kicker makes $5 million per season. The RB average salary is brought down by every team having multiple 3rd/4th string RB's making minimum while Kickers/Punters are 1 per team.

If you think Christian McCaffery can be easily replaced by Clyde Edwards-Helaire - then the devaluing of RB's has gone way too far. That's crazy.

If I'm the GM of say the Buccaneers, and McCaffery can be had, I'm getting you on the phone asap and starting to make moves to get that deal done.

Would straight fleece his ***.

 

[gogeta4]

The Miami Dolphins are going to be a problem in another year or two.

View attachment 113909

 

[DMoney]

Again, which is the point...transfer his value elsewhere that matters. Carrying a team to 12 wins in two years isn't something to note.

McCaffrey makes $4 million a year. He’s not the reason the rest of the team is bad. Their franchise QB broke down and the front office made poor choices. McCaffrey was one of the few good ones.

As for Goff carrying the Rams, we must’ve been watching two different teams. Goff lived off of play action and the threat of Gurley. Once Gurley broke down, Goff crashed back to earth.

 

[BoxingRobes]

I like CEH for a few reasons:

Excellent pass catcher from a pro system.
He can block. Check out his block reel. For a 5'8" dude, he isn't afraid to square up and take on a defender. This gets him on the field ASAP.
He's got a little over 450 career touches and his style of play is all about making you miss. Not a lot of wear on those tires and you should get a full rookie deal out of him without becoming a dented can.

Good comparison for him is Gio Bernard, Duke Johnson. Thats a long NFL career.

 

[gogeta4]

btw - gogeta turned this into a "who is better CEH, McCAC" discussion. No one thinks CEH is better than him, but the value of RBs means McCAC, no matter how special he is, doesn't really matter to a franchise. RBs don't really matter anymore. They are just cogs in an offense. McCAC will do incredibly things in Brady's system...but if you could transfer his value to another more important position while you get a functional RB in the same system like CEH, you are a better team for it, IMO.

I think you got it misconstrued. I didnt make it into who's better. Thats OBVIOUS as to who is.

I'm shooting at you guys that think CEH or guys like that can do/bring what he does to the table. THEY CANT.

MCCAFFERY wouldnt need "Brady's" system to do anything...he is breaking records ALREADY doing incredible things in whomever system they had before. He's so good that it factors into their pass game so much that they literally have a pedestrian group of wrs that have become avg. He's essentially a wr for them as well. Forget "functional"...yall comparing functional to likely the best rb in the league.

I know yall dont value rbs and the league has devalued...**** i have to...But in the case of dude...Naw brah. For example..i wouldnt have paid Ezekiel Elliot as much

 

[BoxingRobes]

McCaffrey makes $4 million a year. He’s not the reason the rest of the team is bad. Their franchise QB broke down and the front office made poor choices. McCaffrey was one of the few good ones.

As for Goff carrying the Rams, we must’ve been watching two different teams. Goff lived off of play action and the threat of Gurley. Once Gurley broke down, Goff crashed back to earth.

Who is saying he is the reason they are bad? If your best player is a RB, that is a reflection on the rest of your team, ya.

We must be watching different Rams teams then. Gurley's two best seasons came with Goff playing above expectation. He's been nothing before or after. Now he's a dented can.

Yall just live in 1995 where you still think RBs really matter.

 

[Cribby]

McCaffrey makes $4 million a year. He’s not the reason the rest of the team is bad. Their franchise QB broke down and the front office made poor choices. McCaffrey was one of the few good ones.

As for Goff carrying the Rams, we must’ve been watching two different teams. Goff lived off of play action and the threat of Gurley. Once Gurley broke down, Goff crashed back to earth.

Goff is stealing money lol. Right when the play action threat died , he died.

 

[gogeta4]

@DMoney a late 1st on J Taylor or CEH is totally reasonable imo. Can't forget the 5th year option is excellent value for a top tier back and then you hopefully get a nice comp pick after those 5 years of cheap value.



Who are you gonna get in free agency at a reasonable price where you're paying for future performance not past production? Dion Lewis is already past his prime, for example, and would still cost more than a 2nd rd pick.

Pass game RB is a crucial position with Brady. Bucs have whiffed on most 2nd rounders under Licht. If you can find a plug and play impact RB it's a no brainer versus getting a 2nd or 3rd tier guy at another position that's not as big a need. Like a 2nd round pass rusher is more likely to bust than not. And WR would be nice but we can find a good one even later and CEH will help more than any rookie WR.



Most of the guys on that list are just not very good. Abdullah and Ball had some hype but I didn't like them. Walton has average traits and still only busted because of off field. Singletary and Ellington have some juice and they made impacts. Riddick was a very good 3rd down back and CEH is more dynamic.

If the argument is that short plodders like Stepfan Taylor or Joe Randle have a short shelf life...well that's self evident. I wouldn't draft those types period they are the epitome of replaceable.

I wont spend a 1st on a high 4.6 40 5'7 rb ( i thought he was 5'8). He has some good receiving qualities and balance. To me he is a late 2nd rounder,3rd rounder type.

 

[BoxingRobes]

Goff is stealing money lol. Right when the play action threat died , he died.

Goff was still a Top 15 QB in the first half of 2019.
source -- https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff-rankings-nfl-quarterback-rankings-following-week-8-2019

However, fell off a bit in the latter half of the year.
source -- https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-best-quarterbacks-ahead-of-super-bowl-liv

PFF outlines the reason as the decline in play from the Rams OL, not the effectiveness of Todd Gurley.

NextGenStats paint a similar picture...

Completition Percentage Above Expectation / Aggressive Throw Percentage / Time To Throw

2017 -- -3 / 14.3 / 2.93
2018 -- +.6 / 13.2 / 2.95
2019 -- -3.6 / 12.8 / 2.8

Less Aggressive than ever in 2019, career low CPAE, and less time to throw.

PFF ranked the Rams the 31st OL in the league in 2019 --

Ranking all 32 NFL offensive lines following the 2019 regular season | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

PFF's Ben Linsey provides the offensive line rankings following the 2019 NFL regular season.

www.pff.com

I'm not a fan of Goff, but to credit his success with Todd Gurley isn't really correct.

 

[TOcane]

CEH reminds me of a poor man's Mark Ingram. I would not draft him before the 3rd round, but I suspect he goes in the 2nd, partly because he gets that national championship bump in draft stock.

I don't buy him personally, he blew up because of the success of that offense .When we played LSU other than the one long run he was pedestrian.