Myth Buster: Talent or Coaching?

Nice write-up and analysis.

I think we lacked the talent to compete against Clemson, UGA, and Alabama.

We also have not coached and developed players to defeat our weaker Coastal competitors. With the talent discrepancy in our favor within the Coastal, we should have been winning the Coastal yearly.
 
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Everything about this program has sucked for the last 2 decades. Getting the wrong “blue chip” guys. Not coaching up the really talented kids that do come here. Not putting them in positions to succeed. Every issue that plagues college football programs, we’ve had all of them.

In general there are ways to mask the lack of one of those two, but you gotta have competent coaching and a ton of talent to actually win big.

Also I’ve always wanted to see a Sasquatch, let me have hope 😂
Right but you guys focus on the wrong coaches... Everyone on here "MARIO THIS MARIO THAT,PERCEPTION BLAH BLAH BLAH. Now if I can have the courts attention I'd simply like to state Dumbo Fisher and Kirby Not so Smart have both won national championships. In Kirby's case he's won multiple chips now and news flash THEY BOTH REALLY SUCK *** & are morons... Ur coordinators and ur position coaches make all the difference. Hence why YET AGAIN ITS NOT ABOUT JUST STACKING ALL THE BEST RECRUITERS AS COACHES... Boise state simply would like to remind y'all of that. North Dakota state wants to remind y'all that... Etc etc it's gotta mesh and it's on players and coaches.
 
Right but you guys focus on the wrong coaches... Everyone on here "MARIO THIS MARIO THAT,PERCEPTION BLAH BLAH BLAH. Now if I can have the courts attention I'd simply like to state Dumbo Fisher and Kirby Not so Smart have both won national championships. In Kirby's case he's won multiple chips now and news flash THEY BOTH REALLY SUCK *** & are morons... Ur coordinators and ur position coaches make all the difference. Hence why YET AGAIN ITS NOT ABOUT JUST STACKING ALL THE BEST RECRUITERS AS COACHES... Boise state simply would like to remind y'all of that. North Dakota state wants to remind y'all that... Etc etc it's gotta mesh and it's on players and coaches.

So now, Todd Monken is the glue holding Georgia together?

 
This one is a little more convoluted; Mario coached UO from 2018-2021. The class of 2019-2020 were apart of the draft class of 2023, but in 2022, they were coached by Lanning.

To simplify this, I’m just going to credit those players to Mario since he did recruit them.

From 2018-21:
Oregon recruited 57 blue chips (including 3 Five-Stars & the transfer of DJ Johnson).

-Only the classes of 2018-20 have been draft eligible, so far.
38 blue chips was recruited during this time frame (3 Five-Stars):
-24% of Oregon’s blue chips were drafted
-66% of Oregon’s 5 stars were drafted
-44% of those blue chips were drafted in the first 3 rounds

Record from 2018-2021:
35-13
-2 Conference Titles
-2 bowl victories (1 NY6 bowl)
Only issue I'd take with that assessment (unless you included them and I simply wasn't paying attention)the kids Mario brought in & coached up previous to taking over. Did you include those?
 
Just with the OL additions this year, if we cant show significant improvement offensively.....

Season 9 Reaction GIF by The Office


Our leading receiver (WR) had 367 yards last season, almost 20% of which came from one play against Duke.
That Is Bad No Thank You GIF by Wired Productions
 
⚠️ Lengthy Post‼️‼️ ⚠️

There’s a lot of myths that’s plagued our society: The Lockness Monster, Big Foot, Kim Kardashian’s *** being real; but, no myth has divided the CIS society into factions none other than the debate of Miami not having enough talent vs. coaching. This subject is as divisive as if Miami should have its own stadium, Miami is broke, & if Miller Lite is truly less filling or if it indeed taste great.

I wanted to examine this notion from several angles, looking at polar opposite ends of the spectrum regarding top tier programs who are flushed w/ talent (e.g Bama) and successful programs without the same caliber of talent (e.g Baylor) to see where we fall. I will also look at how we’ve faired when it comes to blue chip success, and finally I will take a look at how we compare to our contemporaries in the woeful ACC Coastal.

The starting point I’ll use is 2007; why? B/c in 2007, two seismic hires took place that changed two historic programs’ fate, Miami & Alabama.

BLUE CHIP ACQUISITION-

Let’s first examine 6 programs in regards to blue chip acquisition since 2007 - present: Alabama, UGA, Clemson, Utah, Baylor, & TCU. (Please note: I did not take into account player attrition for any program since it all washes it out, but I did take in consideration transfer-in from The Transfer Portal).

-Alabama: 342 blue chip players (71 Five-Stars)
-UGA: 268 blue chip players (54 Five-Stars)
-Clemson: 188 blue chip players (28 Five-Stars)
-TCU: 58 blue chip players (1 Five-Star)
-Baylor: 41 blue chip players (2 Five-Stars)
-Utah: 37 blue chip players

How does Miami compare? 179 blue chip players (12 Five-Stars).

Conclusion on talent acquisition: While we have not hoarded the same amount of blue chip talent as three of the most dominant programs since 2007, it was interesting to see how we’ve been fairly on par w/ Clemson in regards to acquiring total blue chips during this time frame.

With that being said, let’s see what we’ve done with such acquisitions, comparably, with the draft (to gage why we may struggle to get high end blue chips to consistently consider us).

THE DRAFT (I’ll only focus on the top 3 teams compared to Miami in this exercise, since we love to blame bags for everything as an excuse)-

*The classes of 2007-2020 are the only ones that have been drafted or draft eligible since 2010-2023.*
-Bama had 259 blue chips (50 Five-Stars)
-UGA had 202 blue chips (40 Five-Stars)
-Clemson had 142 blue chips (22 Five-Stars)
-Miami had 132 blue chips (7 Five-Stars)

-Bama:
38% of Bama’s total blue chips were drafted (99)
68% of their 5* were drafted
72% of Bama’s drafted blue chips were in the first 3 rounds

-UGA:
33.6% of UGA’s total blue chips were drafted (68)
67.5% of their 5* were drafted
48.5% of UGA’s drafted blue chips were in the first 3 rounds

-Clemson:
31.6% of Clemson’s total blue chips were drafted (45)
77% of their 5* were drafted
60% of Clemson’s drafted blue chips were in the first 3 rounds

Miami:
28% of Miami’s blue chips drafted (27)
86% of our 5* were drafted
32% of our drafted blue chips were in the first 3 rounds

Conclusion on The NFL Drafts: This could explain why high end players are not beating down our doors with consistency; the blue chip players we’ve acquired, we’ve done far less in not only getting them drafted, but the draft position for our blue chips have been well below sub-par.

RECORDS SINCE 2007 (Let’s deep dive in the notion of talent vs. coaching)-

-Bama: 194-27
-Clemson: 173-46
-UGA: 166-49
-TCU: 142-63
-Utah: 138-64
-Baylor: 114-88

Miami? 116-84

In this example, Miami has the 6th worst record out of two polar opposite ends of the spectrum. We can reason why Miami would have a worst record than Bama, UGA, & Clemson due to a talent discrepancy, but Utah, and TCU??
-We’ve acquired 300% more blue chips than TCU
-We’ve acquired almost 500% more blue chips than Utah
-We’ve acquired about 430% more blue chips than Baylor;

Yet, since 2007:
-TCU has won 10+ games 8x (including 4 Conference Titles, 9 bowl games {3 NY6 bowls}).
-Utah has won 10+ games 7x, (including 3 Conference Titles, 10 bowl games {1 NY6 bowl})
-Baylor has won 10+ games 5x (including 3 Conference Titles, 6 bowl games {1 NY6 bowl})

Miami? One 10 win season, and one bowl victory since 2007.

Utah, TCU, & Baylor are also doing this as under dogs, having far less talent than the likes of USC, Oregon, Texas, Oklahoma or equal talent as the likes of UCLA, Washington, Iowa St, & OK St. Which brings me to

THE ACC COASTAL AND HOW WE COMPARE-

Unlike TCU, Utah, & Baylor, we’ve out recruited every single team in our division since 2007.

Blue Chip Acquisition during that time:
-UNC: 107 (6 Five-Stars)
-VT: 69 (2 Five-Stars)
-UVA: 35 (2 Five-Stars)
-GT: 33
-Pitt: 25 (since joining the ACC in 2013)
-Duke: 11

Yet, here’s our record against said opponents:
UNC: 6-10
VT: 9-7
UVA: 9-7
GT: 10-5
Pitt: 7-3
Duke: 12-4

So is this a talent issue, or have something else been going on?

Final Conclusion: Yes, we have experienced a plethora of attrition; however, if u compare our attrition and stack the remaining roster talent/season to the majority of the teams we’ve faced annually, on paper, we’ve still had more than enough talent.

The NFL draft agrees with that assessment:
Since 2007-
-Miami: 57 Players Drafted (19 in first 3 rounds)
-UNC: 43 Players Drafted (20 in first 3 rounds)
-VT: 34 Players Drafted (11 in first 3 rounds)
-Pitt: 29 Players Drafted (7 in the first 3 rounds)
-GT: 19 Players Drafted (4 in the first 3 rounds)
-Duke: 9 Players Drafted (2 in the first 3 rounds)

Imo, the fate of Miami’s program is all cumulative. It’s not a coincidence that programs like Baylor, Utah, & TCU have thrived in a CFB world filled w/ handlers, w/ big fish choosing bigger programs; that’s coaching. Then again, it shouldn’t surprise anyone that programs like Bama, UGA, & Clemson are thriving w/ the shear amount of 5 stars & blue chips they’ve acquired; we can say that’s talent.

With Miami, we’re neither Bama-esque nor Utah-esque when it comes to talent or coaching. We should have enough talent to be a perennial 10 win team + winning the division (which is no longer an option), but the coaching has been putrid.

Every top program I’ve studied all have one thing in common: dedication and commitment from the top-down. With Miami, we’ve seen apathy from the admin, lazy hires filled with cronyism and nepotism, and a lack of semblance both at the AD and coaching levels. To constantly hide behind the theory of “Miami doesn’t have talent or enough talent” is foolish and disingenuous. Once upon a time, I believed that, but when I see other programs filled w/ non blue chip caliber rosters, taking down much tougher opponents, it puts things into perspective.

The hardest thing for anyone to do is face truth b/c it hurts. The NFL draft is a reminder that the program has some work to do, but with this renewed dedication, it shouldn’t take 5 yrs. There’s too many past and current examples showing that a turn around can be done in two yrs. Hopefully moving forwards, we’ll have a definitive answer vs. a theory of talent vs. coaching; I’m of the opinion we’ll have both, but this season will give me an even more definitive answer one way or another.
It’s no coincidence that Miami’s decline coincided with the SEC ramping up its investment while Miami stayed pat. Unlike Baylor, Miami was not innovative enough to out scheme its opponents, but no longer had an overwhelming talent advantage like Alabama or Georgia. Indeed, it had a schematic deficiency from 2011-2015 that made Miami’s relative talent advantage irrelevant. You can argue the same was in place offensively under Richt and Enos.

Regardless of Miami’s blue chip ratio - which was actually quite low from 2012 to 2017 - a more recent denominator is its offensive line. Much as very poor offensive line play was one of the main catalysts to FSU’s downfall, Miami’s poor performance here hampered the offensive for years. Its no surprise Mario attacked it relentlessly in recruiting and the portal, as a poor line renders other talent meaningless.
 
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As others have pointed out, the problem isn’t a lack of development.

We have the second highest % of our 5* players get drafted.

We have the second highest % of our 4* players get drafted.



The problem is we don’t land enough 5* recruits, and we have too many 4* guys in that .89 to .92 ranking.

It’s better to have a recruiting class made up of like 13 kids that are 5*, and 4* with a rating closer to 5* than 3*, and fill the rest of the class out with mid to low 3*, than it is to have a class that has a higher average recruit ranking, but got there with a stable .90 quality ranking per recruit.

Elite talent is what moves the wheel.
 
My friend; mon ami….r u talking about that one time when TAMU first joined the SEC in 2012 & won 11 games for the first time in 14 yrs? TAMU has been the same program in the SEC as they were when they joined the B12 in 1996; one flash in the pan 11 win season, but consistently between 6-8 wins, w/ a dash of 9. This is w/ them recruiting pretty well since 2012. That’s a weirdo program & they provide weirdo results yr in & out DESPITE the mega resources they have.

What was the other team u mentioned; Mizzou?

Missouri actually faired well in the B12 prior to jumping to the SEC. They posted 10+ wins in 3 of their final 5 seasons b4 the jump to the SEC. And like TAMU, they found early success in the SEC with 10+ games in 2 of their first 3 seasons….and wouldn’t u know, they went right back to being the perennial 5-7 win team/year just like their grand pappy’s, pappy’s Tigers have been since the inception of that program wayyyyyy back in the ripe year of 1901.

So let me ask; what or how have the SEC helped either program, besides lining their pockets w/ more $$? Their results have remained mediocre like they were prior to joining.
Just a lot more money, and better exposure in the eastern part of the country. That's about it.
 
Big supporter of our approach under Mario getting on those fringe 4 star guys on board early. Isaiah Thomas, Dylan Day and CWH will all end up 4 stars. Currently .8825, .8769, .8744 respectively with clear 4 star traits and film (they're all within .0256 from a 4 star rating) with the lowest being CWH. No chance a kid with his athleticism remains that low (see Johnson from last year, he was a fringe 4 when we got on him).
 
This is really well done & interesting. First thought is not all Blue Chips & 5 stars are the same. We’ve not signed close to the level of elite talent as Bama, UGA & even Clemson - forget what the stars say.

Second, recruiting services & the star system aren’t the end all. Some elite players a blind man could identify. But a lot of this stuff is guess work & very in exact science. Could spend all day discussing player evaluation & projects.

Next is stability within the program. The elites - Bama, UGA & Clemson have long-term stability at the top. Assistant come & go, but the program is what it is & replacements adapt to the system.

Could go on & on, but last thing mentioned is QB play. You can have all the other pieces, but if QB also isn’t high level & at least a competent game manager it’s gonna be struggle. Can look back to Mario’s last QB at Oregon - transfer from BC - or Richt’s demise at UGA. Talented teams, but subpar QB play.

So, lot of factors go into long-term success.

Let me expound on one of your points... Not only is it an "inexact science," but the rankings are basically what happens when you let librarians into the lab to perform the experiments. The people who rank these kids are not player personnel people, they aren't scouts, they aren't coaches, they are literally superfans who didn't have the journalistic chops to get a job at a real outlet and basically declared themselves capable of evaluating HS kids, one of the hardest things to do in sports. Furthermore, their system is corrupt and they've admitted as much. It's an amateur clown show.
 
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We all know the recruiting services matrix is not some fool proof system, just like using analytics in sports; however, it’s the best guideline available in terms of rating talent w/o actually seeing hrs and hrs of film of each player.

U’ve hit the nail on the head regarding QB play. I mentioned this b4, but since 2003, we’ve only had two QBs drafted: Dorsey and Kaaya. However, one could argue coaching screwed up Brad. Kaaya had a favorable draft grade going into his Jr yr; statistically he had his best campaign under Richt, but that was due to Richt finally allowing Brad to rip the ball those last 5 games. Until then, it was a very conservative play calling, placing Kaaya under center many times, when his comfort level since HS was from the gun.

It's not though. They have no business ranking anything. See my previous post right above. They should stick to reporting, as they are unqualified to evaluate anything. What would be more accurate is if they just reported the offers (accurately some way), and we somehow quantified a value based on what paid college coaches and personnel people see. Not these clowns.
 
Right but you guys focus on the wrong coaches... Everyone on here "MARIO THIS MARIO THAT,PERCEPTION BLAH BLAH BLAH. Now if I can have the courts attention I'd simply like to state Dumbo Fisher and Kirby Not so Smart have both won national championships. In Kirby's case he's won multiple chips now and news flash THEY BOTH REALLY SUCK *** & are morons... Ur coordinators and ur position coaches make all the difference. Hence why YET AGAIN ITS NOT ABOUT JUST STACKING ALL THE BEST RECRUITERS AS COACHES... Boise state simply would like to remind y'all of that. North Dakota state wants to remind y'all that... Etc etc it's gotta mesh and it's on players and coaches.
Kirby is an elite defensive coach. He won with an average QB bc his defense and roster as a whole was elite. Jimbo won bc he had a generational college QB and a stacked roster. Mario had an elite QB and didn’t win big. If you wanna blame his coordinators or roster, that’s also on him.

Absolving Mario of blame, while also saying Kirby and Jimbo won in spite of them being the HC is laughable. Mario has everything to prove, while those guys have a ring. Stop with the mental gymnastics.
 
It's not though. They have no business ranking anything. See my previous post right above. They should stick to reporting, as they are unqualified to evaluate anything. What would be more accurate is if they just reported the offers (accurately some way), and we somehow quantified a value based on what paid college coaches and personnel people see. Not these clowns.

But the proof is in the pudding. Lol.
 
Only issue I'd take with that assessment (unless you included them and I simply wasn't paying attention)the kids Mario brought in & coached up previous to taking over. Did you include those?

No, for three reasons:

1. I didn’t give Lanning credit for the kids who he coached in 2022 that were drafted in 2023.

2. I believe the poster was asking about blue chip kids Mario recruited & those analytics

3. Ironically, when I was about to include kids Mario inherited that were drafted, none were blue chips.

Point 3 is interesting b/c it’s the 3 stars that’s actually faired pretty well under his leadership.
 
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