My rant...

[marshallrc13]

Both of our coordinators suck. Been saying that all year to my friends. I have held out and hoped for the best but they just aren't creative. No imagination what so ever. PLay action on 3rd and longs over and over again. I am tired of the predominant shotgun formations. What happened to the I-formation and power running game? Same vanilla defenses every game. Any QB that plays us knows right away what the coverage is and whether it's zone or man. We have good players and hard workers which will overcome deficiencies against most teams but not against the elite. I held out hope and during the first half I was still thinking we had a chance. Second half we came out flat and played terrible.

 

[Coach Macho]

Alot of blind faith in here.

 

[Coach Macho]

I don't think anybody has a problem with the scheme...it's the principles within the scheme.

Do you guys enjoy being nickel and dimed to death? I don't. I know WHY that's happening to us, and that's my main complaint. You guys just sit back and attribute it to a lack of talent, but I'm watching the replays and what I'm seeing are flawed zone principles.

The reason Perryman can't cover a simple curl route has NOTHING to do with talent.

For anybody who says it's talent, SHOW ME. Show me where we're being beat. Are we being beat in man coverage? Are offensive players toasting our defensive players? Are o-linemen pushing around our d-linemen? No. Many of the times we're not even in the right spots to be beat!

Show me! (cause i can show you what makes me frustrated about the scheme)

 

[ssj4cane]

I don't know a lot of the technical stuff mentioned in this thread but I don't understand why we don't go more with 3-4 looks with Chick/Green, Renfrow/Porter, and Pierre/Robinson rotations on the D-line. Use AQM and McCord as the OLB/pass rushers and get those guys on the field more than just 3rd and longs. Teams have all day to throw on 1st and 2nd downs with the group we run out there now.

 

[Coach Macho]

I don't think they're confident in McCord and AQM's ability to hold the edge against the run. They like Green at the OLB spot on running downs. I don't really disagree with that cause Green is very stout against the run.

 

[CanesAreAble]

Many of the times we're not even in the right spots to be beat!

Show me! (cause i can show you what makes me frustrated about the scheme)

I guess the difference is I don't think that's solely on the coaching.

For example, Golden said we were in man coverage on the screen pass to Freeman that went for a TD. He said we were supposed to "hug" the RB, and the ball should've been thrown in the dirt, but nobody picked him up.

Sounds like a mental error to me.

Now you could argue that Golden/D'Onofrio aren't teaching the defense effectively enough, and they're not reducing the mental errors quickly enough. I don't necessarily agree with that, but to me, that makes more sense than the scheme is patently unsound.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

It's just ridiculous to me that something about what Coach D is doing (spot dropping his players) can't be addressed

I haven't analyzed this in depth.

Why do you think we spot-drop?

I know there's been somewhat of a sea change toward pattern recognition over the years.

Do you think Golden and D'Onofrio are behind the times? Do you think they're trying to build toward pattern reading? Do you think we pattern-read, but not enough? Do you think they've tried it and the results were worse than spot-dropping?

There has to be a rhyme and reason to all of this beyond "Golden and D'Onofrio are dolts" (I know you've never said anything like that, but others have).

Love the discussion Able. I don't think there is anyway Golden and Coach D don't teach pattern recognition. He specifically talked about pattern recognition as it related to Gunter in our cover 2 "sink" scheme post UNC game. We teach the principles. **** I've been teaching pattern recognition to my high school Defense in small school Montana for **** near a decade. As to why our guys LB's are "spot" dropping...no idea, but I'm sure they have a justification and reason for it.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

Many of the times we're not even in the right spots to be beat!

Show me! (cause i can show you what makes me frustrated about the scheme)

I guess the difference is I don't think that's solely on the coaching.

For example, Golden said we were in man coverage on the screen pass to Freeman that went for a TD. He said we were supposed to "hug" the RB, and the ball should've been thrown in the dirt, but nobody picked him up.
Sounds like a mental error to me.

Now you could argue that Golden/D'Onofrio aren't teaching the defense effectively enough, and they're not reducing the mental errors quickly enough. I don't necessarily agree with that, but to me, that makes more sense than the scheme is patently unsound.

Which is exactly what I posted yesterday.......pre Golden interview.

 

[Coach Macho]

Don't really care why they're doing it, all i know is that it's a glaring weakness in our defense. It's the #1 reason why we can't defend the intermediate passing game.

If you're at LB and you're "pattern matching" in cover-2 then your read is 2-to-1 within your hook/curl zone. When the ball is snapped your eyes get on #2 immediately and if 2 runs a curl right next to you then you cover him. We just stand there looking at the QB instead. Bang! Completed pass for 8+ yards.

We have juniors and seniors that do this, so IMO the issue falls on coaching. It doesn't take 3 years to teach pattern matching. Pruitt doesn't seen to have an issue teaching it at FSU.

 

[CanesAreAble]

It's just ridiculous to me that something about what Coach D is doing (spot dropping his players) can't be addressed

I haven't analyzed this in depth.

Why do you think we spot-drop?

I know there's been somewhat of a sea change toward pattern recognition over the years.

Do you think Golden and D'Onofrio are behind the times? Do you think they're trying to build toward pattern reading? Do you think we pattern-read, but not enough? Do you think they've tried it and the results were worse than spot-dropping?

There has to be a rhyme and reason to all of this beyond "Golden and D'Onofrio are dolts" (I know you've never said anything like that, but others have).

Love the discussion Able. I don't think there is anyway Golden and Coach D don't teach pattern recognition. He specifically talked about pattern recognition as it related to Gunter in our cover 2 "sink" scheme post UNC game. We teach the principles. **** I've been teaching pattern recognition to my high school Defense in small school Montana for **** near a decade. As to why our guys LB's are "spot" dropping...no idea, but I'm sure they have a justification and reason for it.

Yeah I was going to mention the play against UNC where Gunter didn't sink.

I'd love to be able to sit in the film room when they go over this stuff. Maybe the trade-off was to give up the underneath stuff to avoid getting hit with deep dig routes and things like that.

 

[CanesAreAble]

Don't really care why they're doing it

I do.

A lot of thought goes into decisions like that.

 

[LuCane]

It's just ridiculous to me that something about what Coach D is doing (spot dropping his players) can't be addressed

I haven't analyzed this in depth.

Why do you think we spot-drop?

I know there's been somewhat of a sea change toward pattern recognition over the years.

Do you think Golden and D'Onofrio are behind the times? Do you think they're trying to build toward pattern reading? Do you think we pattern-read, but not enough? Do you think they've tried it and the results were worse than spot-dropping?

There has to be a rhyme and reason to all of this beyond "Golden and D'Onofrio are dolts" (I know you've never said anything like that, but others have).

Love the discussion Able. I don't think there is anyway Golden and Coach D don't teach pattern recognition. He specifically talked about pattern recognition as it related to Gunter in our cover 2 "sink" scheme post UNC game. We teach the principles. **** I've been teaching pattern recognition to my high school Defense in small school Montana for **** near a decade. As to why our guys LB's are "spot" dropping...no idea, but I'm sure they have a justification and reason for it.

Yeah I was going to mention the play against UNC where Gunter didn't sink.

I'd love to be able to sit in the film room when they go over this stuff. Maybe the trade-off was to give up the underneath stuff to avoid getting hit with deep dig routes and things like that.

I don't think that's a maybe. I mentioned that they were dropping with serious emphasis. FSU could have run RBs out of their backfield all night if they so chose. They really weren't ever at huge risk offensively. I mean, you don't go 11 for 15 on 3rd downs feeling uncomfortable.

 

[Coach Macho]

What defensive philosophy purposely ALLOWS offenses to march down the field 8 yards at a time?

The difference between pattern matching vs. spot dropping is Perryman sitting on top of that curl route vs. standing 5 feet next to it. There's no logical reason why Perryman should allow that curl to be complete. He doesn't give up anything by converging on the curl.

 

[Pentagon Cane]

What defensive philosophy purposely ALLOWS offenses to march down the field 8 yards at a time?

The difference between pattern matching vs. spot dropping is Perryman sitting on top of that curl route vs. standing 5 feet next to it. There's no logical reason why Perryman should allow that curl to be complete. He doesn't give up anything by converging on the curl.

So then why isn't D'Onofrio using pattern reading?

 

[Dwinstitles]

Not going to read your rant cuz u showed your hand along time ago u will always blame Coley. So your Offensive cd. is awesome where you coach? Or do you tell him he sucks too? You can only play with the players you have, I for one liked the way the 1st half was called and some of the 2nd half. Morris killed Miami with the WIDE OPEN COLEY................who called the play? did Morris audible??? or did James Coley call the right play??? he was open all night its on Morris. Also the reason we could not run late in the game was because of FSUs talent started to pick up tendencies faster thats what the more talented team usually does. Morris had happy feat and was rattled even when the pocket was perfect, that particular behavior in the pocket causes no mechanics and quick decisions that he cant make because he cant read a 2nd read most of the time. If you wanna kill Coach D cool I got no problem with that but cmon the talent aint there yet and all this Porter nonsense in the offseason was hype as I suspected hes an ok player, if he gets drafted in the first 2 rounds then Im wrong. Even though I knew AQM or Tyriq was our biggest key against Winston they are fkin young with no other depth around them. I like James Coley and at least he knew to run the ball where Jedd would try a reverse on fsu which would be ridiculous, Jedd and Coley are interchangeable and one recruits better so its an upgrade IMO, because CFB is and always will be about who gets the better players as Bowden just recently said the other day. You get the best players you win period top 3 classes in 3 straight years will make you a top program.

 

[Dynasty]

It's just ridiculous to me that something about what Coach D is doing (spot dropping his players) can't be addressed

I haven't analyzed this in depth.

Why do you think we spot-drop?

I know there's been somewhat of a sea change toward pattern recognition over the years.

Do you think Golden and D'Onofrio are behind the times? Do you think they're trying to build toward pattern reading? Do you think we pattern-read, but not enough? Do you think they've tried it and the results were worse than spot-dropping?

There has to be a rhyme and reason to all of this beyond "Golden and D'Onofrio are dolts" (I know you've never said anything like that, but others have).

Love the discussion Able. I don't think there is anyway Golden and Coach D don't teach pattern recognition. He specifically talked about pattern recognition as it related to Gunter in our cover 2 "sink" scheme post UNC game. We teach the principles. **** I've been teaching pattern recognition to my high school Defense in small school Montana for **** near a decade. As to why our guys LB's are "spot" dropping...no idea, but I'm sure they have a justification and reason for it.

I think one of the reasons our guys spot drop is because it gets as many eyes as possible on the ball thereby increasing the likelihood of interceptions, etc . Additionally, it is easier to teach.

When assessing the overall defensive scheme and/or philosophy, what is immediately noticeable is that we don't have a consistent pass rush from the down four. The second thing is that we play a lot of loose coverage. That's not a good combination. I'm of the mindset that you either tweak the down four techniques to help generate a pass rush, or tighten the back seven coverage to help allow the pass rush to get there (coverage pressure).

Historically, we've spot drop with the backers before. Jimmy Johnson's defenses were centered around cover-2 and cover-4 zone. The defenses under Sonny Lubick consisted primarily of man cover-1,cover-2 and 4 zone. Butch Davis along with Chuck Pagno(sp) implemented the inverted, single cover-2 and cover-3 and used JJ's cover 2 and 4 zone. During the Coker/Shannon era they ran almost exclusively man-1 and man-2. Shannon during the latter years used more cover-2 and 3 zone. The common denorminator, however, was the play of the front four. They all used an attacking, penetrating 40 front.

 

[LuCane]

It's just ridiculous to me that something about what Coach D is doing (spot dropping his players) can't be addressed

I haven't analyzed this in depth.

Why do you think we spot-drop?

I know there's been somewhat of a sea change toward pattern recognition over the years.

Do you think Golden and D'Onofrio are behind the times? Do you think they're trying to build toward pattern reading? Do you think we pattern-read, but not enough? Do you think they've tried it and the results were worse than spot-dropping?

There has to be a rhyme and reason to all of this beyond "Golden and D'Onofrio are dolts" (I know you've never said anything like that, but others have).

Love the discussion Able. I don't think there is anyway Golden and Coach D don't teach pattern recognition. He specifically talked about pattern recognition as it related to Gunter in our cover 2 "sink" scheme post UNC game. We teach the principles. **** I've been teaching pattern recognition to my high school Defense in small school Montana for **** near a decade. As to why our guys LB's are "spot" dropping...no idea, but I'm sure they have a justification and reason for it.

I think one of the reasons our guys spot drop is because it gets as many eyes as possible on the ball thereby increasing the likelihood of interceptions, etc . Additionally, it is easier to teach.

When assessing the overall defensive scheme and/or philosophy, what is immediately noticeable is that we don't have a consistent pass rush from the down four. The second thing is that we play a lot of loose coverage. That's not a good combination. I'm of the mindset that you either tweak the down four techniques to help generate a pass rush, or tighten the back seven coverage to help allow the pass rush to get there (coverage pressure).

Historically, we've spot drop with the backers before. Jimmy Johnson's defenses were centered around cover-2 and cover-4 zone. The defenses under Sonny Lubick consisted primarily of man cover-1,cover-2 and 4 zone. Butch Davis along with Chuck Pagno(sp) implemented the inverted, single cover-2 and cover-3 and used JJ's cover 2 and 4 zone. During the Coker/Shannon era they ran almost exclusively man-1 and man-2. Shannon during the latter years used more cover-2 and 3 zone. The common denorminator, however, was the play of the front four. They all used an attacking, penetrating 40 front.

I answered Able earlier that my complete guess is that we choose to spot drop because it's easier to teach and causes less confusion (miscommunications). I think we've both mentioned that it's just an odd combination to play "contain" with the front 4 and then ask guys to "stay together" with the back 7. Way too many options - not the least of which is just time elapsed - for an offense to take advantage of that. Nevertheless, I'll continue to guess that it's a conscious decision by our coaches because it's the safest way to play right now.

 

[ARJB]

Don't really care why they're doing it, all i know is that it's a glaring weakness in our defense. It's the #1 reason why we can't defend the intermediate passing game.

If you're at LB and you're "pattern matching" in cover-2 then your read is 2-to-1 within your hook/curl zone. When the ball is snapped your eyes get on #2 immediately and if 2 runs a curl right next to you then you cover him. We just stand there looking at the QB instead. Bang! Completed pass for 8+ yards.

We have juniors and seniors that do this, so IMO the issue falls on coaching. It doesn't take 3 years to teach pattern matching. Pruitt doesn't seen to have an issue teaching it at FSU.

You don't care why they're doing it? Really?

Glad you enjoy being ignorant...I guess.

 

[Dynasty]

It's just ridiculous to me that something about what Coach D is doing (spot dropping his players) can't be addressed

I haven't analyzed this in depth.

Why do you think we spot-drop?

I know there's been somewhat of a sea change toward pattern recognition over the years.

Do you think Golden and D'Onofrio are behind the times? Do you think they're trying to build toward pattern reading? Do you think we pattern-read, but not enough? Do you think they've tried it and the results were worse than spot-dropping?

There has to be a rhyme and reason to all of this beyond "Golden and D'Onofrio are dolts" (I know you've never said anything like that, but others have).

Love the discussion Able. I don't think there is anyway Golden and Coach D don't teach pattern recognition. He specifically talked about pattern recognition as it related to Gunter in our cover 2 "sink" scheme post UNC game. We teach the principles. **** I've been teaching pattern recognition to my high school Defense in small school Montana for **** near a decade. As to why our guys LB's are "spot" dropping...no idea, but I'm sure they have a justification and reason for it.

I think one of the reasons our guys spot drop is because it gets as many eyes as possible on the ball thereby increasing the likelihood of interceptions, etc . Additionally, it is easier to teach.

When assessing the overall defensive scheme and/or philosophy, what is immediately noticeable is that we don't have a consistent pass rush from the down four. The second thing is that we play a lot of loose coverage. That's not a good combination. I'm of the mindset that you either tweak the down four techniques to help generate a pass rush, or tighten the back seven coverage to help allow the pass rush to get there (coverage pressure).

Historically, we've spot drop with the backers before. Jimmy Johnson's defenses were centered around cover-2 and cover-4 zone. The defenses under Sonny Lubick consisted primarily of man cover-1,cover-2 and 4 zone. Butch Davis along with Chuck Pagno(sp) implemented the inverted, single cover-2 and cover-3 and used JJ's cover 2 and 4 zone. During the Coker/Shannon era they ran almost exclusively man-1 and man-2. Shannon during the latter years used more cover-2 and 3 zone. The common denorminator, however, was the play of the front four. They all used an attacking, penetrating 40 front.

I answered Able earlier that my complete guess is that we choose to spot drop because it's easier to teach and causes less confusion (miscommunications). I think we've both mentioned that it's just an odd combination to play "contain" with the front 4 and then ask guys to "stay together" with the back 7. Way too many options - not the least of which is just time elapsed - for an offense to take advantage of that. Nevertheless, I'll continue to guess that it's a conscious decision by our coaches because it's the safest way to play right now.

Yes, we've been having this discussion since Golden/D arrived in Coral Gables. It's a methodical approach to defensive football. The old saying it that you can either wait for an offense to make a mistake or you can force them into a mistake.

 

[Coach Macho]

What defensive philosophy purposely ALLOWS offenses to march down the field 8 yards at a time?

The difference between pattern matching vs. spot dropping is Perryman sitting on top of that curl route vs. standing 5 feet next to it. There's no logical reason why Perryman should allow that curl to be complete. He doesn't give up anything by converging on the curl.

*shrugs*



So then why isn't D'Onofrio using pattern reading?

You tell me. Maybe it's not apart of his scheme? Maybe he doesn't believe in it?

Tell me why we get tore up intermediately no matter who we play.