My rant...

[Coach Macho]

Don't really care why they're doing it, all i know is that it's a glaring weakness in our defense. It's the #1 reason why we can't defend the intermediate passing game.

If you're at LB and you're "pattern matching" in cover-2 then your read is 2-to-1 within your hook/curl zone. When the ball is snapped your eyes get on #2 immediately and if 2 runs a curl right next to you then you cover him. We just stand there looking at the QB instead. Bang! Completed pass for 8+ yards.

We have juniors and seniors that do this, so IMO the issue falls on coaching. It doesn't take 3 years to teach pattern matching. Pruitt doesn't seen to have an issue teaching it at FSU.

You don't care why they're doing it? Really?

Glad you enjoy being ignorant...I guess.

Dude, STFU. You sit in the corner, quiet like a little boy, looking for an opportunity to jump in with a smartass remark. GTFO of this thread. You're not gonna bring any substance in here.

 

[DAU4life]

Don't really care why they're doing it, all i know is that it's a glaring weakness in our defense. It's the #1 reason why we can't defend the intermediate passing game.

If you're at LB and you're "pattern matching" in cover-2 then your read is 2-to-1 within your hook/curl zone. When the ball is snapped your eyes get on #2 immediately and if 2 runs a curl right next to you then you cover him. We just stand there looking at the QB instead. Bang! Completed pass for 8+ yards.

We have juniors and seniors that do this, so IMO the issue falls on coaching. It doesn't take 3 years to teach pattern matching. Pruitt doesn't seen to have an issue teaching it at FSU.

You don't care why they're doing it? Really?

Glad you enjoy being ignorant...I guess.

Dude, STFU. You sit in the corner, quiet like a little boy, looking for an opportunity to jump in with a smartass remark. GTFO of this thread. You're not gonna bring any substance in here.

I agree w everything you have said cat, idk why these people can't tell the difference between talent and scheme.

 

[Coach Macho]

Ok, so let me get this straight. Here are the different theories...


*We do play pattern-matching zone but the players are ******** up. So basically this theory says that guys who have been here 3 to 4 years still haven't mastered the pattern-matching.

Or...

*We spot-drop because we wanna keep everything in front of us. In return, we allow WR's to catch the ball and tackle them after they get 7+ yards.

Or...

*It's talent. Guys like Perryman aren't talented enough to play zone defense.


These are all the theories we have, correct?

 

[LuCane]

Ok, so let me get this straight. Here are the different theories...


*We do play pattern-matching zone but the players are ******** up. So basically this theory says that guys who have been here 3 to 4 years still haven't mastered the pattern-matching.

Or...

*We spot-drop because we wanna keep everything in front of us. In return, we allow WR's to catch the ball and tackle them after they get 7+ yards.

Or...

*It's talent. Guys like Perryman aren't talented enough to play zone defense.


These are all the theories we have, correct?

My opinion is that it's #2. Take it or leave it, I think we're banking on an errant pass, a tipped ball, a dropped pass, etc. Maybe in the future that will change.

 

[User-4525]

@Manny_Navarro: D'Onofrio said Highsmith needed help from his corner (Ladarius Gunter) on catch Kelvin Benjamin made Saturday night #UM

@Manny_Navarro: D'Onofrio on #UM D: "Overall we're all disappointed. We had a lot invested in the game and were all disappointed in our execution."

@Manny_Navarro: D'Onofrio said S AJ Highsmith went into Saturday's game having played 250 snaps without making a mental error #UM

 

[Bennubird]

I'll say this...I appreciate him not publicly throwing Highsmith under the bus. Anyone with 20/200 vision and who saw that game and other games can reach their own conclusions.

@Manny_Navarro: D'Onofrio said Highsmith needed help from his corner (Ladarius Gunter) on catch Kelvin Benjamin made Saturday night #UM

@Manny_Navarro: D'Onofrio on #UM D: "Overall we're all disappointed. We had a lot invested in the game and were all disappointed in our execution."

@Manny_Navarro: D'Onofrio said S AJ Highsmith went into Saturday's game having played 250 snaps without making a mental error #UM

 

[Coach Macho]

Ok, so let me get this straight. Here are the different theories...


*We do play pattern-matching zone but the players are ******** up. So basically this theory says that guys who have been here 3 to 4 years still haven't mastered the pattern-matching.

Or...

*We spot-drop because we wanna keep everything in front of us. In return, we allow WR's to catch the ball and tackle them after they get 7+ yards.

Or...

*It's talent. Guys like Perryman aren't talented enough to play zone defense.


These are all the theories we have, correct?

My opinion is that it's #2. Take it or leave it, I think we're banking on an errant pass, a tipped ball, a dropped pass, etc. Maybe in the future that will change.

Ok, that's a logical reason, however I still think it sucks.

Our intermediate passing defense at WHS used to look exactly like Miami's. We allowed guys to catch the ball and then we attempted to tackle them afterwards. When the original DC left and my boy and I took over the defense I installed a pattern matching principle to our pass defense. It was a ***** to teach but once we got it our intermediate pass defense became very good.

This kid is all of 5'7' 185lbs and runs a 4.9 forty. This kid would have zero chance to help us if he was spot dropping. He simply doesn't take up enough space. (i.e. Denzel Perryman) He has no length. However, with pattern-matching it allows him to close passing windows that he would normally have no chance of closing.

Starting at 0:30 you can see where the pattern matching helps us. Instead of sitting in an area of grass he's got his head on a swivel and he's finding WR's. (or as I call it "find work") This allows him to "match" the WR's route and make plays he would have no chance of making if he was covering an area. On the next play after the INT @ 0:30 he destroys a WR that he would be NOWHERE NEAR if he was spot dropping. At the snap his eyes go to initial read, which is the #2 WR. By rule, if #2 goes away he's suppose to match the route of #1. #2 went away and he immediately sprinted to #1 which allowed him to close that passing window and make a big hit.

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/o/1603596/highlights/27712385

 

[AUcane]

Ok, so let me get this straight. Here are the different theories...


*We do play pattern-matching zone but the players are ******** up. So basically this theory says that guys who have been here 3 to 4 years still haven't mastered the pattern-matching.

Or...

*We spot-drop because we wanna keep everything in front of us. In return, we allow WR's to catch the ball and tackle them after they get 7+ yards.

Or...

*It's talent. Guys like Perryman aren't talented enough to play zone defense.


These are all the theories we have, correct?

My opinion is that it's #2. Take it or leave it, I think we're banking on an errant pass, a tipped ball, a dropped pass, etc. Maybe in the future that will change.

With a great DL...

 

[Dynasty]

Ok, so let me get this straight. Here are the different theories...


*We do play pattern-matching zone but the players are ******** up. So basically this theory says that guys who have been here 3 to 4 years still haven't mastered the pattern-matching.

Or...

*We spot-drop because we wanna keep everything in front of us. In return, we allow WR's to catch the ball and tackle them after they get 7+ yards.

Or...

*It's talent. Guys like Perryman aren't talented enough to play zone defense.


These are all the theories we have, correct?

I'm also of the opinion that it is number two with respect to underneath defenders. The back four *might* be doing some pattern reading, but I highly doubt they are being taught pattern distribution principles.

As has been mentioned in this thread, I would like for some of our beat writers to ask Golden/D to explain in simplistic form their defensive coverage principles. Until we get an answer for them everything else is pure speculation.

 

[Cribby]

So everyone griping about Lowsmith is wrong? Denofrio thinks he's quite the player, I guess that explains why he stays on the two deep. He's good mentally, just sucks physically.

 

[LuCane]

Ok, so let me get this straight. Here are the different theories...


*We do play pattern-matching zone but the players are ******** up. So basically this theory says that guys who have been here 3 to 4 years still haven't mastered the pattern-matching.

Or...

*We spot-drop because we wanna keep everything in front of us. In return, we allow WR's to catch the ball and tackle them after they get 7+ yards.

Or...

*It's talent. Guys like Perryman aren't talented enough to play zone defense.


These are all the theories we have, correct?

My opinion is that it's #2. Take it or leave it, I think we're banking on an errant pass, a tipped ball, a dropped pass, etc. Maybe in the future that will change.

Ok, that's a logical reason, however I still think it sucks.

Our intermediate passing defense at WHS used to look exactly like Miami's. We allowed guys to catch the ball and then we attempted to tackle them afterwards. When the original DC left and my boy and I took over the defense I installed a pattern matching principle to our pass defense. It was a ***** to teach but once we got it our intermediate pass defense became very good.

This kid is all of 5'7' 185lbs and runs a 4.9 forty. This kid would have zero chance to help us if he was spot dropping. He simply doesn't take up enough space. (i.e. Denzel Perryman) He has no length. However, with pattern-matching it allows him to close passing windows that he would normally have no chance of closing.

Starting at 0:30 you can see where the pattern matching helps us. Instead of sitting in an area of grass he's got his head on a swivel and he's finding WR's. (or as I call it "find work") This allows him to "match" the WR's route and make plays he would have no chance of making if he was covering an area. On the next play after the INT @ 0:30 he destroys a WR that he would be NOWHERE NEAR if he was spot dropping. At the snap his eyes go to initial read, which is the #2 WR. By rule, if #2 goes away he's suppose to match the route of #1. #2 went away and he immediately sprinted to #1 which allowed him to close that passing window and make a big hit.

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/o/1603596/highlights/27712385

The thing is, WildCat, pattern reading is done all over the place. It's done even at the ****** HS football level. I refuse to believe Golden and D'Ono aren't aware of it and/or incapable of teaching it. That leads me to one conclusion: their conscious decision is made because they think it gives them the best chance to win. One example: I've seen us sprinkle in some man coverages as we've apparently begun to trust our guys more. Nevertheless, I think we're currently in the business and mindset of grinding out Ws. Whether that's getting into shootouts, like last year, or trying to make less mistakes toward victory. What we ask our guys to do shows that we're deathly afraid of a couple things: (1) giving up big plays the running QB and (2) giving up big plays to guys in space.

That could honestly be for any number (like 10, off the top of my head) of reasons. Maybe they simply don't think some of our guys can hang. Maybe they're just inclined to a certain philosophy that forces the offense to be either consistently accurate/effective or incredibly talented. Personally, I think it's a combination and I think about guys like Groh, Paterno and other influences on these guys.

What I do know for sure is that everything Al Golden does seems to be done with a lot of thought and with a specific plan. I hate to sum it up to this, but "it is what it is."

 

[OBLIVION]

We can't handle the passing game, because we have no pass rush. Everyone in pass coverage is going to look suspect when a QB has a decade to throw. Even the best DB/S/LB is going to struggle when no one even comes close to sacking a QB. Coaches should have already unleashed AQM on all downs. Dude is far better than any DE we have atm.

 

[am1640]

Haven't read all the post but are people stating that we're spot dropping because a LB is looking at the qb?

 

[moshated305]

Can't disagree except Duke is an elite player. Best player to wear the uni since ST.

The problem is he's being overused bc there is no one else and bc our OC is afraid to use other backs in big games. It's killing me that he's hurt today. He's one of the real Canes.

I don't think he is being overused. But I don't think he is being used properly either. We make no attempt to get Duke out in space. Don't think we have ran a designed pass play to him all year. What is funny is, he ran back to back screens to Crawford the series after Duke got injured LOL

 

[avicenna75]

Our pas coverage issues date back to the 2011 Maryland game. Middle of the field open, flats uncovered, high completion percentages among opposing QBs.

 

[avicenna75]

Can't disagree except Duke is an elite player. Best player to wear the uni since ST.

The problem is he's being overused bc there is no one else and bc our OC is afraid to use other backs in big games. It's killing me that he's hurt today. He's one of the real Canes.

I don't think he is being overused. But I don't think he is being used properly either. We make no attempt to get Duke out in space. Don't think we have ran a designed pass play to him all year. What is funny is, he ran back to back screens to Crawford the series after Duke got injured LOL

I don't think we've used Duke on one toss play all year. Not one screen. Not one flare out, wheel, out pattern in the slot. It's sad he only had 4 catches on the year.

 

[moshated305]

Haven't read all the post but are people stating that we're spot dropping because a LB is looking at the qb?

Our guys cover grass period. They stand in their zone and watch the QB. The only position that looks like it should on that side of the ball is CB. Gunter and Tracy are ballers. Deon is a baller when healthy, need him to regain his form. Not enough explosiveness up front (best pass rushers are young and too small). I wish Jethro would teach them something besides a speed rush. Outside of Perryman, our LBs aren't very good. Just average, and they look lost in zone coverage just standing around covering grass.

 

[am1640]

Haven't read all the post but are people stating that we're spot dropping because a LB is looking at the qb?

Our guys cover grass period. They stand in their zone and watch the QB. The only position that looks like it should on that side of the ball is CB. Gunter and Tracy are ballers. Deon is a baller when healthy, need him to regain his form. Not enough explosiveness up front (best pass rushers are young and too small). I wish Jethro would teach them something besides a speed rush. Outside of Perryman, our LBs aren't very good. Just average, and they look lost in zone coverage just standing around covering grass.

hmmmm ok, I guess I'll just not even bother because our players aren't just constantly standing in a zone and you should be checking your key and the qb in pattern rec tech using the QB drop and which way his shoulders are turned (not his eyes) to assist in guessing the pattern. Saban teaches the tech that way also and teaches not react to anything in front of you until you see the ball thrown.

 

[zone3cane]

Miami should play nickel as its base.... that's our strength.

We dont have 3 LBs thats good enough to start, only Perryman and Gaines should be on the field.

Then put Bush or KC at nickel on 1st and 2nd downs and then Antonio Crawford or Artie Burns can play the nickel on 3rd downs.

Sending Shayon Green back in pass coverage is the dumbest **** ever, they should all only have to focus, on containment, pressure, and dominating the line of scrimmage only.

 

[LuCane]

Haven't read all the post but are people stating that we're spot dropping because a LB is looking at the qb?

Our guys cover grass period. They stand in their zone and watch the QB. The only position that looks like it should on that side of the ball is CB. Gunter and Tracy are ballers. Deon is a baller when healthy, need him to regain his form. Not enough explosiveness up front (best pass rushers are young and too small). I wish Jethro would teach them something besides a speed rush. Outside of Perryman, our LBs aren't very good. Just average, and they look lost in zone coverage just standing around covering grass.

hmmmm ok, I guess I'll just not even bother because our players aren't just constantly standing in a zone and you should be checking your key and the qb in pattern rec tech using the QB drop and which way his shoulders are turned (not his eyes) to assist in guessing the pattern. Saban teaches the tech that way also and teaches not react to anything in front of you until you see the ball thrown.

It's your opinion that this isn't spot dropping? Just one game I remember clearly, so went and took a couple quick screenshots. Please see:

WR ran a shallow cross almost directly next to the LB.



QB held the ball because there was no rush, which allowed WR to find a bigger window, as our LB didn't really move very much.



I'm all for differing opinions and would love to keep this discussion going, but I encourage everyone to at least try to back up their statements with video, images, or something. I think it'd help everyone who hopes to learn.