Mirrored Concepts

RiDLer80

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So back to the OP.

Probably the most frustrating thing watching this offense is the insistence on slow developing vertical routes even when facing an obvious blitz/pressure situation. If the line is identifying the blitz and Gauthier is calling protection adjustments, why are Perry and the receivers kept in the dark? If Richt doesn't trust that Perry is capable of recognizing the pressure and making an audible, why does he not use a "check with me" type of system? I know Miami fan-guy didn't like James Coley using one but the fact of the matter is, you need to help your quarterback out. Josh Heupel does this all the time even when Milton was healthy. I mean the clip in the first post sums up the offense all season long. Pitt shows pressure, OL adjusts protection, QB and WR still running the same vertical switch route on the boundary side. Even if Donaldson doesn't completely miss his guy, you're still relying on your weakest position group being able to hold their blocks for long enough for the switch route to work.
One of the most frustrating things about this offense to me is Richt not returning to things that were previously successful.

What happened to the inside trap QB read that we saw for the first time against VT last season. It seems like we ran that play only during that game and it never made another appearance.

Why do we still refuse to use more jet motion? I forget which game (might've been Duke) but we used some ghost jet motion and it took a defender out of the play because he had to respect the outside threat and the running back had a big hitter where that defender used to be.

It's like Richt puts in something for one week only and never becomes a part of the core playbook and it's never to be heard from again.
 

RiDLer80

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Baylor used a switch concept in their offense pretty frequently. Check out the play at 1:05. Slot wheel, but instead of the outside WR running a post, he runs a slant. The slant is quicker developing so even if our OL gets beat quickly there's still a play to be made by the offense.

Also, Baylor's super wide WR alignments stretched the defense very thin and opens up the middle of the field. If you want to cut the field in half for your QB that you don't trust (because that seems to be what Richt is doing) this is the best way to do it; stretch the defense as thin as possible. That offense was a thing of beauty to watch. Stretched the defense vertically and horizontally.

 
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View attachment 70695
Baylor used a switch concept in their offense pretty frequently. Check out the play at 1:05. Slot wheel, but instead of the outside WR running a post, he runs a slant. The slant is quicker developing so even if our OL gets beat quickly there's still a play to be made by the offense.

Also, Baylor's super wide WR alignments stretched the defense very thin and opens up the middle of the field. If you want to cut the field in half for your QB that you don't trust (because that seems to be what Richt is doing) this is the best way to do it; stretch the defense as thin as possible. That offense was a thing of beauty to watch. Stretched the defense vertically and horizontally.

Seems like that would be a simple adjustment given that teams were eating us alive with the cornerback blitz.
 
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Below is a good read on the evolution of option football. What I took away from this in relation to Miami is how Richt does not adapt. You’ll see in this article teams destroy college football for a bit using innovative schemes/philosophy and then fail to adapt once they are figured out.

 
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Baylor used a switch concept in their offense pretty frequently. Check out the play at 1:05. Slot wheel, but instead of the outside WR running a post, he runs a slant. The slant is quicker developing so even if our OL gets beat quickly there's still a play to be made by the offense.

Also, Baylor's super wide WR alignments stretched the defense very thin and opens up the middle of the field. If you want to cut the field in half for your QB that you don't trust (because that seems to be what Richt is doing) this is the best way to do it; stretch the defense as thin as possible. That offense was a thing of beauty to watch. Stretched the defense vertically and horizontally.

That's the thing some people still aren't seeing. Richt wants to bunch everything up and beat the other team on talent and execution. So we lose to teams that execute well, and/or have watched some film. And even if we didn't, we'd eventually get to the teams that would beat us on talent.
 

Tee3000

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Nothing wrong with mirrored concepts with all of the split field coverage being ran on defense now a days...the issue is the AMOUNT of mirrored concepts.
 

Roman Marciante

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Baylor used a switch concept in their offense pretty frequently. Check out the play at 1:05. Slot wheel, but instead of the outside WR running a post, he runs a slant. The slant is quicker developing so even if our OL gets beat quickly there's still a play to be made by the offense.

Also, Baylor's super wide WR alignments stretched the defense very thin and opens up the middle of the field. If you want to cut the field in half for your QB that you don't trust (because that seems to be what Richt is doing) this is the best way to do it; stretch the defense as thin as possible. That offense was a thing of beauty to watch. Stretched the defense vertically and horizontally.

You are speaking one of my love languages here. I have been a big fan of the Baylor spread and their utilization of field spacing which creates a definite advantage. And Miami's most successful offensive component if you will, is their success on IZ/bubble. By happenstance when the bubble receiver catches the ball, he is essentially where Baylor receivers automatically line up from the jump.

Many of the big runs this year happen on this variety as well. I just love the way it will stretch the defense out and keeps them away from my running game. Plus like you said, that slant in a Baylor spread is lethal. The alignment away from the safety just gives this natural lane to the house.

I have wanted Miami to incorporate spacing into this offense for a while. good stuff.
 
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There’s no one in this staff that has legit experience with spread concepts. This pro style with spread offense was doomed from the start. Just because you’re in spread set doesn’t make you a spread offense.
 

Roman Marciante

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There’s no one in this staff that has legit experience with spread concepts. This pro style with spread offense was doomed from the start. Just because you’re in spread set doesn’t make you a spread offense.
My thing is this, If you are going to go pro, then go pro. Let me see a multi formation, motion, personnel heavy, shifting, throw the world at you gangster that essentially will give opposing defenses mental fatigue from trying to defend you.

or

Go spread, touch side lines, jet motion/orbit motion, get you out of the box so I can run at you, pre and post snap rpo based tempo demon that will give you physical fatigue and night sweats just thinking about covering my guys in space.

I will say one will fatigue you mentally, the other physically. But give opposing defenses something that will be a unique challenge to defend. I do not see how an offense that is over reliant on mirrored concepts, with no real use of tempo, formation, motion, check with me, personnel prowess and runs a handful of concepts over and over and over and over again fatigues a defense in any way.

Right now Richt's offense operates as a "PR" because there is no "O" about it.
 

Roman Marciante

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My thing is this, If you are going to go pro, then go pro. Let me see a multi formation, motion, personnel heavy, shifting, throw the world at you gangster that essentially will give opposing defenses mental fatigue from trying to defend you.

or

Go spread, touch side lines, jet motion/orbit motion, get you out of the box so I can run at you, pre and post snap rpo based tempo demon that will give you physical fatigue and night sweats just thinking about covering my guys in space.

I will say one will fatigue you mentally, the other physically. But give opposing defenses something that will be a unique challenge to defend. I do not see how an offense that is over reliant on mirrored concepts, with no real use of tempo, formation, motion, check with me, personnel prowess and runs a handful of concepts over and over and over and over again fatigues a defense in any way.

Right now Richt's offense operates as a "PR" because there is no "O" about it.

(With that said I prefer the spread here because it is less contingent on heavy game planning, easy for qb reads, less congested in the run game and ultimately puts Miami athletes in a lot more advantageous spot to beat you one on one.) Oh yeah, and it's all what these high school kids are running down here these days and there is greater familiarity with it.
 

DTP

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I think the average fan doesn't realize the whole purpose of the spread is to simplify the offense (mostly for the QB). I'm not a high school football junkie but I've been to quite a few games over the last few years and pretty much every team is running some variation of spread offense. All the concepts, run, pass, option, whatever are all based on one or two simple reads. Most of the throws are determined either before the ball is snapped or immediately after the snap. When people talk about wanting to see the quarterback go through progressions, all i can think is "Ok so you want to run an offense that takes three years to master".
 
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(With that said I prefer the spread here because it is less contingent on heavy game planning, easy for qb reads, less congested in the run game and ultimately puts Miami athletes in a lot more advantageous spot to beat you one on one.) Oh yeah, and it's all what these high school kids are running down here these days and there is greater familiarity with it.
I rather spread too. Pro style is too reliant on eleven players executing on any given play. What type of spread you prefer @Roman Marciante?
 

Roman Marciante

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I think the average fan doesn't realize the whole purpose of the spread is to simplify the offense (mostly for the QB). I'm not a high school football junkie but I've been to quite a few games over the last few years and pretty much every team is running some variation of spread offense. All the concepts, run, pass, option, whatever are all based on one or two simple reads. Most of the throws are determined either before the ball is snapped or immediately after the snap. When people talk about wanting to see the quarterback go through progressions, all i can think is "Ok so you want to run an offense that takes three years to master".
Well said.
 

Roman Marciante

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I rather spread too. Pro style is too reliant on eleven players executing on any given play. What type of spread you prefer @Roman Marciante?
Pro spread/ with baylor spread infusion.

A multi formational, multi look, tempo infused system with pre snap horizontal pressure simplifying the reads for my quarterback.

I just envision this 4 snap series of..

Quads iz/bubble rpo
Tight trips left spacing pass concept with option to toss with leverage (check with me)
2x2 space (both sets of wr outside the hash) hitch corner lead rpo
2x2 tight jet sweep action counter

But like effortless with some tempo. Give defenses both fatigue mentally and physically. We line up in different formations seamlessly. We get to where we going effortlessly

Then second half you know how they defended certain formations and you smack them in the mouth.
 

Roman Marciante

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And I need people smarter than me. Analysts. Where are they vulnerable? How do they defend sets? What are there tendency on down and distances. Where are they weakest?

I'll let my memory go from there.
 

Roman Marciante

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Then half way through the season every year we need to have a big heart to heart. Tell me my tendency. Where am I vulnerable? I can't have a blind spot im not seeing. Pay for people to find it.

I'll throw out the whole damn play book and start
Over if I have to.
 

HighSeas

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My thing is this, If you are going to go pro, then go pro. Let me see a multi formation, motion, personnel heavy, shifting, throw the world at you gangster that essentially will give opposing defenses mental fatigue from trying to defend you.
This so much. Where's the unbalanced lines? Play action TE wheel crossing the field from the 2-TE side? Motion the FB/TE for a quick flat/rub route?

It's not about pro vs. spread, tight vs. wide splits, etc. It's about design and the total absence of it. I watch these plays and I just wonder "what is this trying to accomplish?" Most of the time the answer seems to be just running staple plays for the sake of it. There's no attempt to attain an advantage, create confusion, or even beat a specific coverage. Which brings me back to my previous point about paid retirement...

I have to say there have been some good threads posted on this site but this might be the best read from start to finish. Lots of quality replies here.
 

Roman Marciante

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This so much. Where's the unbalanced lines? Play action TE wheel crossing the field from the 2-TE side? Motion the FB/TE for a quick flat/rub route?

It's not about pro vs. spread, tight vs. wide splits, etc. It's about design and the total absence of it. I watch these plays and I just wonder "what is this trying to accomplish?" Most of the time the answer seems to be just running staple plays for the sake of it. There's no attempt to attain an advantage, create confusion, or even beat a specific coverage. Which brings me back to my previous point about paid retirement...

I have to say there have been some good threads posted on this site but this might be the best read from start to finish. Lots of quality replies here.
And you just added to it. Thank you.

I agree. When you go mirrored switch concepts on third and long on FIVE out of six times (including three times in the same drive) I just agree 100% when you say "running staple plays for the sake of it." Maybe some don't notice that because one was a pass completion in tight coverage, and two were extremely covered and the quarterback scrambled.

Very easy to defend this offense on third down right now with man 1 and man 2 coverage. I don't think Switch post/wheels and all verticals are essentially man beaters. But the staff does not look to audible this and simply rely on the out execution prospect.


But look at it in action. (Man 0) This is the level the quarterback NEEDS to operate under. He takes a shot and needs to be SURGICAL to complete this. This is not a high % throw by any means.

But I don't know call me a simpleton. When a teacher's class all fail the test, maybe it's the teacher? Two quarterbacks have been bottom dwellers as far as ACC % ranks go. But I don't see anything really designed to help them out with %. A bubble screen. Less than 5 tunnel screens on the year? One or two variety of hb screens?

Yet I see the staff over use mirrored concepts, call plays for the sake of calling them, and have a repetitive nature about them that is literally hand cuffing their quarterbacks.
 

Roman Marciante

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And I will add, running a static offense (no motion) with no tempo, no check with me, limited audible potential, and dropping your RPO % this year is NOT a recipe for offensive success. That is not subjective. That is objective based on the fact you were 93rd in total offense this year.

That all handcuffs a quarterback and as a quarterback, I would never have seen the field here. I would be WAY TOO mouthy to let something like that happen.

I literally would walk to the side line and go "If you don't take the fuggn training wheels off my damn offense and give me some better play calls, I am going to keep giving you the middle finger after every unsuccessful play call. So as a man of my word, start with this one. Now get your head out of you arsce and let's go."

(no wonder why I played professional baseball) lol
 
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