MEGA Mega Merged Stadium Thread.

[Felonious Monk]

As long as the big money donors are happy with HRS and the administration isn't having to spend billions, there will be no change.

 

[canecrazy23]

Let’s say there was a sporting facility on campus that was literally 2 minutes away, would the students be willing to walk those 50 yards and take the two minutes to attend the games of one of the best teams in a college sport right now? Just a rhetorical question.

 

[canecrazy23]

So we are back to building a 60K seat stadium to accommodate 5000 undergrad students who may or may not attend a home game 6 times a year???

... not to mention, these so-called students can't be bothered to sell out an air conditioned indoor basketball arena fielding a top 25 team for a couple of hours on game day.

Someone convince me why they are even part of the discussion..

This is what is so laughable. The Students are a tiny part of what fills our stadium.

 

[canecrazy23]

Check out the attendance numbers in 2001, I don't know what the issue is but being good historically hasn't had a huge impact

2001 Miami Hurricanes football team - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[canecrazy23]

So everyone agrees that building a stadium inside TP presents a traffic and logistical nightmare the likes of which no one has experienced ever before. But those who live within walking distance of this stand-still wouldn't dream of walking a short distance to avoid it? Got it.

Also, many who live near TP could tailgate at home in their swimming pool and walk over closer to game time. Unless of course you're **** bent on tailgating for 8 hours outside the stadium in 95 degree heat which I personally don't understand.

What percentage of people who live near Tropical park go to UM football games or are even fans. I can tell you it's very small.

 

[Cane_Mutiny]

Unsurprisingly, you're misinformed. The engages HKS architects to design it. If you knew what it cost to walk in the door there you'd pee your pants, let alone for a stadium project.

@Rellyrell let em know whats up

I think you're the one who is uninformed. HKS is certainly very expensive, but for something like this where the scope is purely conceptual (i.e., there is no actual project to design yet because he doesn't have the right to build it), they're probably charging him by the hour or on a fixed-fee just for the basic conceptual renderings. Maybe it's more than what I originally estimated (~$20k), but it's not much more.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

So we are back to building a 60K seat stadium to accommodate 5K undergrad students who may or may not attend a home game 6 times a year???

... not to mention, these so-called students can't be bothered to sell out an air conditioned indoor basketball arena fielding a top 25 team for a couple of hours on game day.

Someone convince me why they are even part of the discussion..

No.

We are back to building a 60K seat stadium because the Hard Rock relationship has been problematic, and we have no idea who the future owners might be, and we have no idea if we will get even worse lease renewal terms in the future because the big moneymaker for Hard Rock has become Formula 1. In our history, when have we seen either the Orange Bowl or Hard Rock make IMMEDIATE improvements after ONE EVENT like they are now doing for the "Paddock Club" construction?

As for the students being "part of the discussion", it's because students turn into alums. And because our UM alums are our best UM donors (collectively, across the entire university, not just athletics). While we can occasionally count on a non-alum making a big contribution, our best and longest-lasting donor relationships are with people who have strong connections to UM, such as the Hechts and the Soffers and the Ruizes.

I've already seen this problem in the Alumni Association. Alums from the 1980s and 1990s and early 2000s are WAY more engaged and motivated than the alums who went to UM and graduated since we moved to Hard Rock. You can be dismissive, but that's the truth. And people can make snide comments about basketball and/or baseball attendance by the UM students, but those sports have NEVER been the driver of student participation that football has been over the decades. We aren't Duke.

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

I think you're the one who is uninformed. HKS is certainly very expensive, but for something like this where the scope is purely conceptual (i.e., there is no actual project to design yet because he doesn't have the right to build it), they're probably charging him by the hour or on a fixed-fee just for the basic conceptual renderings. Maybe it's more than what I originally estimated (~$20k), but it's not much more.

$20k? My friend, besides having invested in both new residential and commercial construction, I am currently building a private home (not for the first time). I assure you, not suggesting, assuring, that you are mistaken. By an order of magnitude. Whether you have the right to build it or not isn't the deciding factor on how far you are willing to go with a design. It's your pocketbook.

If you were to ask a small, but good private architecture firm to do an early design on a 7000 SF private home you would be past $20k, to start. Pre-engineering.

This is not residential. This is not a "small but good" architect. This is not a private home. This is a highly publicized 2M~ SF commercial stadium by the very best there is. Let that sink in. 2M SF.

HKS isn't charging anyone "by the hour" lol. Besides their obvious talent, you are buying their BRAND as well, and the credibility it brings to a project. And HKS isn't working on a "day by day" basis. This is a firm with their own internal PR division for god's sake. The initial contract would be to take it from zero to a certain place, and it would be for an amount of work and an amount of money that makes it worth their while, and worth associating their name to the project. Just like if a company engages a law firm like Paul Weiss or Skadden Arps, the initial retainer alone would blow away your number.

This is the big leagues. Over 100 architects worked on SoFi for example. Stadium projects don't come around every day, and when they do they are a fire hose of fees for the participating architects because of the amount of work and how specialized the projects are.

Let's get away from disagreement of it all, and land back at... I promise you, Ruiz is spending a considerable sum with HKS, regardless of whether this ever gets approved or built.

 

[rok]

So we are back to building a 60K seat stadium to accommodate 5K undergrad students who may or may not attend a home game 6 times a year???

... not to mention, these so-called students can't be bothered to sell out an air conditioned indoor basketball arena fielding a top 25 team for a couple of hours on game day.

Someone convince me why they are even part of the discussion..

I was at the bball game against VT this week and students are packing that place when school is in session. But this isn't about the students, it's about Miami needing and deserving its own stadium that it can call its rightful home. Ruiz will eventually get it done IMO.

 

[Hurracanes]

I was at the bball game against VT this week and students are packing that place when school is in session. But this isn't about the students, it's about Miami needing and deserving its own stadium that it can call its rightful home. Ruiz will eventually get it done IMO.

This is about $. End of story.

 

[Cane_Mutiny]

$20k? My friend, besides having invested in both new residential and commercial construction, I am currently building a private home (not for the first time). I assure you, not suggesting, assuring, that you are mistaken. By an order of magnitude. Whether you have the right to build it or not isn't the deciding factor on how far you are willing to go with a design. It's your pocketbook.

If you were to ask a small, but good private architecture firm to do an early design on a 7000 SF private home you would be past $20k, to start. Pre-engineering.

This is not residential. This is not a "small but good" architect. This is not a private home. This is a highly publicized 2M~ SF commercial stadium by the very best there is. Let that sink in. 2M SF.

HKS isn't charging anyone "by the hour" lol. Besides their obvious talent, you are buying their BRAND as well, and the credibility it brings to a project. And HKS isn't working on a "day by day" basis. This is a firm with their own internal PR division for god's sake. The initial contract would be to take it from zero to a certain place, and it would be for an amount of work and an amount of money that makes it worth their while, and worth associating their name to the project. Just like if a company engages a law firm like Paul Weiss or Skadden Arps, the initial retainer alone would blow away your number.

This is the big leagues. Over 100 architects worked on SoFi for example. Stadium projects don't come around every day, and when they do they are a fire hose of fees for the participating architects because of the amount of work and how specialized the projects are.

Let's get away from disagreement of it all, and land back at... I promise you, Ruiz is spending a considerable sum with HKS, regardless of whether this ever gets approved or built.

You are missing the entire point here. Unlike when you engage an architect to design a house, there is no stadium to design!!! Ruiz cannot engage them on a scope to design a stadium at Tropical Park when they have nothing to base their design on. No architect would agree to that. They have no idea exactly where it would be, what the parameters would be, what the budget would be, etc. Anything an architect cranks out right now is just a conceptual drawing based on nothing. HKS probably spent 10 hours of actual work on it.

From HKS's perspective, being attached to early renderings is a big leg-up in getting the contract if the thing ever gets built. ****, they might have done it for free. Spitting out a couple renderings is chump change for them, and if those renderings help sell the deal to the County, they will have been in on the ground floor of a major stadium project.

Yes, if this stadium project actually goes forward and HKS gets hired to do actual design work, their fees will be in the tens of millions. But that's not what is happening right now.

 

[rsa coral gables]

It would be a 20 minute bike/scooter ride from campus and might entail widening the sidewalk a bit to create something like the Old Cutler trail. They're currently redoing the M path along US1 that no one uses, and once had plans to make the Ludlam Trail into a thing. The city is glad to create more cyclist/pedestrian friendly thouroughfares and people from the Gables and South Miami would use it plenty if Tropical Park gets a makeover. As of now there's zero reason for anyone from Coral Gables to head west but a brand new park 20 minutes away on bike using a dedicated bike/walking path would get tons of use. The only downside would be people from westchester wandering east into and discovering all of what's outside their city limits.

statements like this evidence that you live in a delusional world. you probably played and play too many video games or your cerebral cortex was defective at birth. no one from coral gables is going to tropical to do anything except for an event. if they want to work, they can do so in the gables.

and explain what the downside is of people living in westchester wandering east into and discovering what is outside of their city limits (it is not a city, nor is there a wall). what? they never leave westchester?

 

[rsa coral gables]

So we are back to building a 60K seat stadium to accommodate 5K undergrad students who may or may not attend a home game 6 times a year???

... not to mention, these so-called students can't be bothered to sell out an air conditioned indoor basketball arena fielding a top 25 team for a couple of hours on game day.

Someone convince me why they are even part of the discussion..

the marginal increase in students going to a game by moving the stadium to tropical is +/- 500.

 

[rsa coral gables]

I was at the bball game against VT this week and students are packing that place when school is in session. But this isn't about the students, it's about Miami needing and deserving its own stadium that it can call its rightful home. Ruiz will eventually get it done IMO.

i was there and it wasn't packed. i bought $100 tickets for $20. there were comments on another thread about the game that the 150 students who were there was an embarrassing statement.

 

[rsa coral gables]

You are missing the entire point here. Unlike when you engage an architect to design a house, there is no stadium to design!!! Ruiz cannot engage them on a scope to design a stadium at Tropical Park when they have nothing to base their design on. No architect would agree to that. They have no idea exactly where it would be, what the parameters would be, what the budget would be, etc. Anything an architect cranks out right now is just a conceptual drawing based on nothing. HKS probably spent 10 hours of actual work on it.

From HKS's perspective, being attached to early renderings is a big leg-up in getting the contract if the thing ever gets built. ****, they might have done it for free. Spitting out a couple renderings is chump change for them, and if those renderings help sell the deal to the County, they will have been in on the ground floor of a major stadium project.

Yes, if this stadium project actually goes forward and HKS gets hired to do actual design work, their fees will be in the tens of millions. But that's not what is happening right now.

HKS designed a draft site plan and draft renderings. they have also visited the site. less than $100,000 IMO. they have nothing to design, no construction documents, no engineering, nothing. nada.

 

[rok]

i was there and it wasn't packed. i bought $100 tickets for $20. there were comments on another thread about the game that the 150 students who were there was an embarrassing statement.

The student section was plenty full

 

[rok]

statements like this evidence that you live in a delusional world. you probably played and play too many video games or your cerebral cortex was defective at birth. no one from coral gables is going to tropical to do anything except for an event. if they want to work, they can do so in the gables.

and explain what the downside is of people living in westchester wandering east into and discovering what is outside of their city limits (it is not a city, nor is there a wall). what? they never leave westchester?

Of course people who live 15 minutes away would visit a brand new park they could get to using a dedicated bike trail. Nothing whatsoever delusional about it but please keep it up with the personal attacks.

 

[rsa coral gables]

Of course people who live 15 minutes away would visit a brand new park they could get to using a dedicated bike trail. Nothing whatsoever delusional about it but please keep it up with the personal attacks.

i have lived in the gables for 25 years, +/- 12 minutes from tropical. of all my friends and acquaintances in the gables, NOT ONE will go to tropical. there is no need to do so.

and to be clear, my retorts to your statements aren't personal attacks, they are observations and inferences based upon evidence in the form of your delusional statements. i repeat too many videos games or damage to or lack of formation of the cerebral cortex. if the latter, you should feel no shame, not your fault.

 

[Cryptical Envelopment]

You are missing the entire point here. Unlike when you engage an architect to design a house, there is no stadium to design!!! Ruiz cannot engage them on a scope to design a stadium at Tropical Park when they have nothing to base their design on. No architect would agree to that. They have no idea exactly where it would be, what the parameters would be, what the budget would be, etc. Anything an architect cranks out right now is just a conceptual drawing based on nothing. HKS probably spent 10 hours of actual work on it.

From HKS's perspective, being attached to early renderings is a big leg-up in getting the contract if the thing ever gets built. ****, they might have done it for free. Spitting out a couple renderings is chump change for them, and if those renderings help sell the deal to the County, they will have been in on the ground floor of a major stadium project.

Yes, if this stadium project actually goes forward and HKS gets hired to do actual design work, their fees will be in the tens of millions. But that's not what is happening right now.

My dude, you don't get how it works. Your "points" aren't valid. You are basing your guesswork on the fact that this isn't green-lit and funded. Which is misguided. Please don't let this be the hill you die on. I promise you, you've got it wrong. HKS was certainly asked to use the proposed site in the sketch I posted a couple of days ago above, for a certain size stadium, with certain amenities, within a certain budget. Nothing is set in stone, nor does it need to be at this stage. It's a "proposed" design. Pre-engeneering. This is actually how architects come up with their best ideas, when they aren't quite boxed in yet.

(Insert my entire previous post here) and add that it's called a "speculative" project, which I think is where you're going wrong here. It doesn't change the initial work, and yes, every and any architect would agree to the work as long as they are being paid appropriately. Especially at the institutional level.

And here is where the argument ends (again), they already released basic design renderings months ago. Which again, alone, cost an order or magnitude more than what you think. Hours and hours of consultation, input, back and forth, brainstorms, consulting, design work, renderings. You really think they paid f'ing HKS an "hourly rate" that added up to $20k for this AND everything else they've done in the FIVE MONTHS SINCE THESE RENDERINGS WERE RELEASED? HKS' travel budget ALONE for site visits and meetings is more than $20k, I promise you.

You also think HKS has been doing nothing over these five months since the renderings were dropped while Ruiz has been telling everyone more work is coming? They have everything to base it on. They are designing a stadium to try to sell to the city and public. They are investing in that. Maybe it doesn't make sense to YOU, but you're wrong. Really, really, really wrong. If this post didn't get through to you, then good luck! But I PROMISE you, I know what I'm talking about here. And what you are saying is WILDLY incorrect. Go Canes.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

My dude, you don't get how it works. Your "points" aren't valid. You are basing your guesswork on the fact that this isn't green-lit and funded. Which is misguided. Please don't let this be the hill you die on. I promise you, you've got it wrong. HKS was certainly asked to use the proposed site in the sketch I posted a couple of days ago above, for a certain size stadium, with certain amenities, within a certain budget. Nothing is set in stone, nor does it need to be at this stage. It's a "proposed" design. Pre-engeneering. This is actually how architects come up with their best ideas, when they aren't quite boxed in yet.

(Insert my entire previous post here) and add that it's called a "speculative" project, which I think is where you're going wrong here. It doesn't change the initial work, and yes, every and any architect would agree to the work as long as they are being paid appropriately. Especially at the institutional level.

And here is where the argument ends (again), they already released basic design renderings months ago. Which again, alone, cost an order or magnitude more than what you think. Hours and hours of consultation, input, back and forth, brainstorms, consulting, design work, renderings. You really think they paid f'ing HKS an "hourly rate" that added up to $20k for this AND everything else they've done in the FIVE MONTHS SINCE THESE RENDERINGS WERE RELEASED? HKS' travel budget ALONE for site visits and meetings is more than $20k, I promise you.

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You also think HKS has been doing nothing over these five months since the renderings were dropped while Ruiz has been telling everyone more work is coming? They have everything to base it on. They are designing a stadium to try to sell to the city and public. They are investing in that. Maybe it doesn't make sense to YOU, but you're wrong. Really, really, really wrong. If this post didn't get through to you, then good luck! But I PROMISE you, I know what I'm talking about here. And what you are saying is WILDLY incorrect. Go Canes.

Had HKS had site visits at Tropical Park?