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May 27, ACCT vs Duke, 11am (possible stream link included)

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It would be nice to see just one outstanding sports program at UM. That would give fans some confidence that AD is competent enough to recognize talent and hire at least one good coach, so we can have some faith that the others will eventually succeed if given enough time. Unfortunately, UM sports fall somewhere on the spectrum between "dumpster fire" and "mediocre." I envy Blake James in a way. I'd love to have a job where I get paid a million dollars and there are no expectations for success.
 
TimeBum said:
It would be nice to see just one outstanding sports program at UM. That would give fans some confidence that AD is competent enough to recognize talent and hire at least one good coach, so we can have some faith that the others will eventually succeed if given enough time. Unfortunately, UM sports fall somewhere on the spectrum between "dumpster fire" and "mediocre." I envy Blake James in a way. I'd love to have a job where I get paid a million dollars and there are no expectations for success.
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That’s why so many of us believe that the move to the ACC is what did the athletic department in.

Folks can claim the bad calls and playing your tournament in NC is the actual problem, but it’s not. We continue to be terrible in all sports bc theres no accountability. The money keeps flowing in whether we win or not.
 
NC_Canes_11 said:
That’s why so many of us believe that the move to the ACC is what did the athletic department in.

Folks can claim the bad calls and playing your tournament in NC is the actual problem, but it’s not. We continue to be terrible in all sports bc theres no accountability. The money keeps flowing in whether we win or not.
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I fear you are right. I want you to be wrong. But I fear you are right.
 
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NC_Canes_11 said:
It’s been a decade and a half. There’s no more fearing. It’s the truth.
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Correlation ain’t causation, bro.

It’s convenient to blame the move to the ACC. But that ignores the simple reality that virtually all programs go through ups and downs over time. How’s USC football and baseball been over the past decade? Texas football?
 
CaneInHeelCountry said:
Correlation ain’t causation, bro.

It’s convenient to blame the move to the ACC. But that ignores the simple reality that virtually all programs go through ups and downs over time. How’s USC football and baseball been over the past decade? Texas football?
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You don’t understand the point I’m making. My view is different from those who blame the conference and say it cheats us and all that nonsense. I’m not blaming the ACC. I’m blaming the athletic department for getting comfortable cashing ACC checks and no longer caring. The move to this conference was the right one, but it has killed any motivation to win, the school previously had.

And don’t blame cycles of ups and downs for incompetence. What we are witnessing at Miami is incompetence and zero accountability.
 
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NC_Canes_11 said:
You don’t understand the point I’m making. My view is different from those who blame the conference and say it cheats us and all that nonsense. I’m not blaming the ACC. I’m blaming the athletic department for getting comfortable cashing ACC checks and no longer caring. The move to this conference was the right one, but it has killed any motivation to win, the school previously had.
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I understood your point. i just disagree with it and find it a tired excuse.

I'll veer away from baseball for a moment and talk about football. Every single one of our coaching hires over the last dozen years or so previous to Manny had been well-regarded by sportswriters across the country. Shannon, Golden, Richt...they were all A/A-/B+ hires according to the folks who cover this stuff. Could we have done better? Obviously the results say yes. But we doled out decent money for what the admin thought, in their honest evaluations, would be good for the program and get us Ws.

This idea that the admin just cares about the ACC checks rolling in and doesn't care about winning...or that somehow being an Indy or being in the Big East made our admin "hungrier" to win...it's just kinda silly. As I said, virtually all programs go through droughts...that doesn't mean the admin got lazy or de-motivated by money or whatever. Bad hires happen to good organizations all the time. Mediocrity strikes even those programs that are motivated and want to win.
 
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CaneInHeelCountry said:
I understood your point. i just disagree with it and find it a tired excuse.

I'll veer away from baseball for a moment and talk about football. Every single one of our coaching hires over the last dozen years or so previous to Manny had been well-regarded by sportswriters across the country. Shannon, Golden, Richt...they were all A/A-/B+ hires according to the folks who cover this stuff. Could we have done better? Obviously the results say yes. But we doled out decent money for what the admin thought, in their honest evaluations, would be good for the program and get us Ws.

This idea that the admin just cares about the ACC checks rolling in and doesn't care about winning...or that somehow being an Indy or being in the Big East made our admin "hungrier" to win...it's just kinda silly. As I said, virtually all programs go through droughts...that doesn't mean the admin got lazy or de-motivated by money or whatever. Bad hires happen to good organizations all the time. Mediocrity strikes even those programs that are motivated and want to win.
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You mean to tell me Shannon from a failed regime, extending Golden and Richt for no reason, letting Richt bring his son with no experience, letting Manny strong arm them into a job after getting a $20 million re-do bc Richt walked away and didn’t fight, Morris letting baseball fall apart with no push back, hiring a donors son, and letting Coach L still be here would happen if they weren’t getting large sums of money from the ACC? Seems to me like this school would be in life support if they set that much money on fire without a big conference deal. Not too mention someone would be fired if it actually hurt the bottom line, but bc of the new tv deal it doesn’t.
 
NC_Canes_11 said:
You mean to tell me Shannon from a failed regime, extending Golden and Richt for no reason, letting Richt bring his son with no experience, letting Manny strong arm them into a job after getting a $20 million re-do bc Richt walked away and didn’t fight, Morris letting baseball fall apart with no push back, hiring a donors son, and letting Coach L still be here would happen if they weren’t getting large sums of money from the ACC? Seems to me like this school would be in life support if they set that much money on fire without a big conference deal. Not too mention someone would be fired if it actually hurt the bottom line, but bc of the new tv deal it doesn’t.
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You can slam the hires all you want, and in retrospect it's **** easy to do so. But as I said, at the time they were each well-regarded hires that sportswriters across the country pegged in the A to B+ range. Shannon was from a "failed regime"...but he was also from a regime that had won a National title while he was DC, and his defenses were stout every single year, and he knew the UM program in and out.
 
CaneInHeelCountry said:
Correlation ain’t causation, bro.

It’s convenient to blame the move to the ACC. But that ignores the simple reality that virtually all programs go through ups and downs over time. How’s USC football and baseball been over the past decade? Texas football?
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You're not wrong. My personal take is that the ACC money made them complacent.

Better is the enemy of good enough is the motto of the mediocre.
 
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"Well-regarded hires by sportswriters", that's your measuring stick? How about conference titles, national championships, Omaha/Elite 8/CFB playoff participant, etc? Those are mine.

Remember when the joke was the baseball team used the runner- up trophy as a door stop? What happened to those lofty expectations. Of course we were never going to repeat the glory days, but a 20 year drought of even sniffing a title in Men's athletics is getting old.
 
CaneInHeelCountry said:
I understood your point. i just disagree with it and find it a tired excuse.

I'll veer away from baseball for a moment and talk about football. Every single one of our coaching hires over the last dozen years or so previous to Manny had been well-regarded by sportswriters across the country. Shannon, Golden, Richt...they were all A/A-/B+ hires according to the folks who cover this stuff. Could we have done better? Obviously the results say yes. But we doled out decent money for what the admin thought, in their honest evaluations, would be good for the program and get us Ws.

This idea that the admin just cares about the ACC checks rolling in and doesn't care about winning...or that somehow being an Indy or being in the Big East made our admin "hungrier" to win...it's just kinda silly. As I said, virtually all programs go through droughts...that doesn't mean the admin got lazy or de-motivated by money or whatever. Bad hires happen to good organizations all the time. Mediocrity strikes even those programs that are motivated and want to win.
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Let me chime in really quick here;

These “well-regarded” sports writers have been lazy af, lately. Truth be told, the folks that write about us have always given half-hearted efforts, UNLESS, there was something controversial or sensational.

So let’s go through our coaching hires for football:

Saban
Schnelly
Johnson
Erickson
Davis

Go look at their pedigrees. Either they all had previous successful coaching experience at the highest level, or they came from an absolutely incredible coaching tree.

Now, let’s go to Coker. Coker, at first glance, made sense b/c he was from Butch’s coaching tree. Had the BCS not screwed us in 2000, he would’ve been a Nat’l championship OC taking over. I had zero issues w/ The Coker hire, until it proved he was resting on his laurels. Now; this is where NONE of the next subsequent hires made sense:

-Randy Shannon (apart of a failed regime w/ Coker, where the team was completely undisciplined). Why make this hire?

-Al Golden (a sub .500 G5 coach who had one good yr in his 3rd yr as HC, before taking a step back the follow season in wins total before accepting the job. Furthermore the coaching tree he came from absolutely sucked ***!) Again, why make this hire.

-Mark Richt (a man who once upon a time had a solid rep, was on the downside of his career, wanted to retire) For name sake, this was a solid hire.....if the yr was 2006. We hired him in 2016, & he was sliding.
From 2001 - 2007 (72-19 {.791 winning%} w/ 4 divisional crowns & 2 Conference Crowns)

2008 - 2015 (73-32 {.695 winning%} w/ 2 divisional crowns & 0 Conference Crowns)

We had to not only over spend to hire him (the biggest pay day he ever had), but sweetened the pot by allowing his inexperienced, unqualified son to be the OC to stop him from retiring! Not very smart

Which brings us to Manny (see my comments about Randy Shannon & add a touch of Al Golden’s coaching tree & voila, you have Diaz.)

My friend, from 2006 - present, this is the unequivocal definition of a poorly ran AD. Forget the fact we hired a Baseball coach who, too, came from a failed regime, but it was clear it was nepotistic hire! So we hire the guy who’s daddy is one of the biggest boosters? What’s the likelihood he’ll be fired for continuously under achieving? I know he’s a former player & alum, but come on! Lol.
 
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Rellyrell said:
Let me chime in really quick here;

These “well-regarded” sports writers have been lazy af, lately. Truth be told, the folks that write about us have always given half-hearted efforts, UNLESS, there was something controversial or sensational.

So let’s go through our coaching hires for football:

Saban
Schnelly
Johnson
Erickson
Davis

Go look at their pedigrees. Either they all had previous successful coaching experience at the highest level, or they came from an absolutely incredible coaching tree.

Now, let’s go to Coker. Coker, at first glance, made sense b/c he was from Butch’s coaching tree. Had the BCS not screwed us in 2000, he would’ve been a Nat’l championship OC taking over. I had zero issues w/ The Coker hire, until it proved he was resting on his laurels. Now; this is where NONE of the next subsequent hires made sense:

-Randy Shannon (apart of a failed regime w/ Coker, where the team was completely undisciplined). Why make this hire?

-Al Golden (a sub .500 G5 coach who had one good yr in his 3rd yr as HC, before taking a step back the follow season in wins total before accepting the job. Furthermore the coaching tree he came from absolutely sucked ***!) Again, why make this hire.

-Mark Richt (a man who once upon a time had a solid rep, was on the downside of his career, wanted to retire) For name sake, this was a solid hire.....if the yr was 2006. We hired him in 2016, & he was sliding.
From 2001 - 2007 (72-19 {.791 winning%} w/ 4 divisional crowns & 2 Conference Crowns)

2008 - 2015 (73-32 {.695 winning%} w/ 2 divisional crowns & 0 Conference Crowns)

We had to not only over spend to hire him (the biggest pay day he ever had), but sweetened the pot by allowing his inexperienced, unqualified son to be the OC to stop him from retiring! Not very smart

Which brings us to Manny (see my comments about Randy Shannon & add a touch of Al Golden’s coaching tree & voila, you have Diaz.)

My friend, from 2006 - present, this is the unequivocal definition of a poorly ran AD. Forget the fact we hired a Baseball coach who, too, came from a failed regime, but it was clear it was nepotistic hire! So we hire the guy who’s daddy is one of the biggest boosters? What’s the likelihood he’ll be fired for continuously under achieving? I know he’s a former player & alum, but come on! Lol.
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Lol, this “failed regime” stuff kills me. Virtually anyone who hasn’t recently won an NCcould be considered part of a failed regime by most posters here.

—Shannon was a part of several NCs as a player and coach. His defenses were stellar by virtually all measures. He had deep connections in the community and a **** good resume for someone without HC experience.

Now you can say maybe we should never hire anyone who hasn’t had previous success as an HC. But then that knocks out a guy like Schnelly, who had only been an HC once before, for 1 losing season with the Colts. And even guys like Jimmy and Erickson had mediocre-at-best records as HCs previous to getting the nod here...so let’s don’t pretend that they were sure-thing home-run hires with top-notch resumes.

—Golden had a decent-not-great pedigree, and was heralded as a “diamond in the rough” pretty much like a lot of our previous hires.

—Richt had tons of success at UGA, ties to UM, etc. The knock on him Was that he’d lost his edge—but there were also rumors that the UGA admin had basically tied his hands, and that UM would give him free reign.

You guys look at these things in hindsight, and you only focus on the down side. But each of these hires were very plausible and in keeping with our previous philosophy on hires.
 
TimeBum said:
It would be nice to see just one outstanding sports program at UM. That would give fans some confidence that AD is competent enough to recognize talent and hire at least one good coach, so we can have some faith that the others will eventually succeed if given enough time. Unfortunately, UM sports fall somewhere on the spectrum between "dumpster fire" and "mediocre." I envy Blake James in a way. I'd love to have a job where I get paid a million dollars and there are no expectations for success.
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They have a top-notch Quidditch team I'm told
 
CaneInHeelCountry said:
You can slam the hires all you want, and in retrospect it's **** easy to do so. But as I said, at the time they were each well-regarded hires that sportswriters across the country pegged in the A to B+ range. Shannon was from a "failed regime"...but he was also from a regime that had won a National title while he was DC, and his defenses were stout every single year, and he knew the UM program in and out.
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Zero head coaching experience. We went from a national title contender to a learn on the job school. Nobody cares if the hire is “well regarded.” It was all a guess bc he was never a HC before he got here.
 
Allabouttheu95 said:
We can argue all we want about football but we have a walking corpse running the hoops program and the son of a prominent board member running our baseball program.

it’s hard to top how bad that is on paper
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It’s not just that it’s a joke on paper, it’s a joke on the court and on the field as well. Let’s not even mention how EVERYBODY here knew what was gonna happen before it happened, but for some reason the people getting paid to make those decisions missed it.
 
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