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Off-Topic Mass killings

CaneintheWilderness said:
And yet every day, hundreds of millions of people in the developed world without stand your ground laws get along just fine and don't become "prey." Despite all its faults, our society is such that for the vast majority of people things like stand your ground laws - a modern invention, by the way - never affect their lives at all. This kind of fear and hysteria is common in radical 2A circles, and understandably so because it serves the ultimate beneficiaries of the contemporary 2A movement: gun manufacturers. After all, if people aren't terrified all the time, who's going to keep buying guns? There's only so many hunters and sportsmen out there.



Clearly you've never heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect. This response just further convinces me you either haven't spent a whole lot of time around the average gun owner or have a near-delusional amount confidence in your fellow man. A quick search of Florida's or Texas' statistics on road rage shootings will yield dozens of stories of people who probably described themselves as "responsible" gun owners right up until someone cut them off on the turnpike.

A fun thought experiment is wondering whether people who think that everyone should be able to conceal/open carry without a permit also think that the average American is competent enough to vote without passing a basic civics test.
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How about both? Call it a compromise law.
 
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Cribby said:
Not even the politicians know what that answer is. I’ve never been a gun guy, **** I’ve never owned or shot one but even I know more than these idiots lol. If you think an AR15 is a machine gun or anything close you’ve never seen how one works. It’s not even a powerful gun or in the stratosphere of a machine gun. Each shot you need to pull the trigger.
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Bc it’s a made up term. As soon as they are able to classify something as “assault” for example anything with the ability to fire X amount of bullets in X amount of time, they’ll ban everything. Doesn’t matter that it’s the user that enables the weapon to fire at that rate.

If that doesn’t work they’ll pass some ambiguous ban without a definition so judges can “interpret” the law how they see fit. Meaning they’ll come after yours if you have the wrong opinion.
 
JD08 said:
How about both? Call it a compromise law.
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We’ve had waiting periods and gun restrictions in place for decades. Some people still think that didn’t work. Voting has been open to anyone for decades. Some people think that’s not working. So let’s reverse it. Const carry for all and civics test to vote.

It’s only fair to try it out, if we’re gonna compare the two. We can check back in a couple decades from now and see how it’s worked out.
 
NC_Canes_11 said:
Road rage shootings are less than .5 a day in Florida and Texas. They are not an issue anywhere. In fact guns at large are not an issue. There are more guns than people in this country. If it was an actual problem, you would know. The crime rate by CC permit holders is minuscule. That simple fact shows the vast majority of CC gun owners are responsible.

The rest of the developed world means nothing to me. But they are prey if someone wanted to do something about it. If you didn’t come out of Covid with a sense that the 2A is more important now, than ever, you’ll never have an understanding of it.
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I grew up shooting guns and own several myself since before COVID. Unlike the hysterics and the newly minted wannabe preppers with more disposable income than sense (we call them "loot boxes"), I didn't need COVID to convince me of the benefits of responsible gun ownership. It is precisely because of this that I am confident in saying that permitless concealed carry is a very stupid idea. If someone was not able to pass the very, very easy procedures to obtain a concealed carry permit, they had absolutely no business owning a gun to begin with. We're talking fingerprinting, a very generously scored shooting test, and in some cases a few hours of classes or a demonstration that you know how to handle your weapon safely. This whole process takes at most one month. Most who emerge the other side of it still don't know how to properly engage a target in a self-defense situation without being a danger to themselves or other people, so I'm not sure what the ultimate utility is other than giving terminally frightened people the illusion of safety. But that's a discussion for another time. The point is, any person who was hesitant about going to South Beach strapped to drink and party next spring break - as at least a hundred people decided to do this past March, with two bodies to show for it - now can do so without any fear of getting in trouble for a concealed weapon as long as they legally purchased it. Can't imagine what could go wrong.
 
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CaneintheWilderness said:
I grew up shooting guns and own several myself since before COVID. Unlike the hysterics and the newly minted wannabe preppers with more disposable income than sense (we call them "loot boxes"), I didn't need COVID to convince me of the benefits of responsible gun ownership. It is precisely because of this that I am confident in saying that permitless concealed carry is a very stupid idea. If someone was not able to pass the very, very easy procedures to obtain a concealed carry permit, they had absolutely no business owning a gun to begin with. We're talking fingerprinting, a very generously scored shooting test, and in some cases a few hours of classes or a demonstration that you know how to handle your weapon safely. This whole process takes at most one month. Most who emerge the other side of it still don't know how to properly engage a target in a self-defense situation without being a danger to themselves or other people, so I'm not sure what the ultimate utility is other than giving terminally frightened people the illusion of safety. But that's a discussion for another time. The point is, any person who was hesitant about going to South Beach strapped to drink and party next spring break - as at least a hundred people decided to do this past March, with two bodies to show for it - now can do so without any fear of getting in trouble for a concealed weapon as long as they legally purchased it. Can't imagine what could go wrong.
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I have also been a firearm owner and permit carrier long before Covid and knew what it meant. But it solidified everything I believed before, and woke up a ton of normies. And good for them, exercising their right.

You can claim whatever you want and use situations here and there, but it doesn’t prove anything. You can cherry pick tragedies for anything. I’ve stated numbers that prove my point. You have given your opinion. Guns aren’t close to being the top danger issue in this country.
 
CaneintheWilderness said:
I grew up shooting guns and own several myself since before COVID. Unlike the hysterics and the newly minted wannabe preppers with more disposable income than sense (we call them "loot boxes"), I didn't need COVID to convince me of the benefits of responsible gun ownership. It is precisely because of this that I am confident in saying that permitless concealed carry is a very stupid idea. If someone was not able to pass the very, very easy procedures to obtain a concealed carry permit, they had absolutely no business owning a gun to begin with. We're talking fingerprinting, a very generously scored shooting test, and in some cases a few hours of classes or a demonstration that you know how to handle your weapon safely. This whole process takes at most one month. Most who emerge the other side of it still don't know how to properly engage a target in a self-defense situation without being a danger to themselves or other people, so I'm not sure what the ultimate utility is other than giving terminally frightened people the illusion of safety. But that's a discussion for another time. The point is, any person who was hesitant about going to South Beach strapped to drink and party next spring break - as at least a hundred people decided to do this past March, with two bodies to show for it - now can do so without any fear of getting in trouble for a concealed weapon as long as they legally purchased it. Can't imagine what could go wrong.
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One of the things you learned in class is that you can't carry to bars. Has that changed? Of course, criminals aren't really known to follow the law.
 
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Tony4Miami said:
JFC

www.businessinsider.com

After a Texas family asked a neighbor to stop shooting a gun in his yard because their baby was trying to sleep, he came over and killed 5 people with an AR-15 style rifle, police say.

The suspect was "agitated" after neighbors asked him to stop shooting from his porch. That's when he went next door and opened fire, police said.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com
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Twice deported illegal alien. Once again another shooting that could have been stopped if the laws on the books were enforced. But keep blaming the guns.
 
I have questions for the anti-2A crowd:
1. Take away all the legal guns from gun owners who never shot anyone, even in self-defense. What is your plan to remove the now overwhelming gang and cartel weapon usage? Asking pretty please? Anti-4A Raids in violation of the USCON?
2. If someone kills a bunch of people, like running over them with a rented truck (like that's never happened before), what do you do to confiscate all the rented trucks?
3. If someone were to snap and kill people, this would be easily stopped if they had brain chip and we could predict thought processes only laden to violence. is that ok with you?
 
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ben said:
Peter Santenello did a few YouTube videos on the US-Mexican border recently that I highly recommend. Was illuminating for me as someone who did not understand the true scale of the problem.
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People want to ignore it under the guise of compassion, but the reality is anything but.
 
CaneintheWilderness said:
I grew up shooting guns and own several myself since before COVID. Unlike the hysterics and the newly minted wannabe preppers with more disposable income than sense (we call them "loot boxes"), I didn't need COVID to convince me of the benefits of responsible gun ownership. It is precisely because of this that I am confident in saying that permitless concealed carry is a very stupid idea. If someone was not able to pass the very, very easy procedures to obtain a concealed carry permit, they had absolutely no business owning a gun to begin with. We're talking fingerprinting, a very generously scored shooting test, and in some cases a few hours of classes or a demonstration that you know how to handle your weapon safely. This whole process takes at most one month. Most who emerge the other side of it still don't know how to properly engage a target in a self-defense situation without being a danger to themselves or other people, so I'm not sure what the ultimate utility is other than giving terminally frightened people the illusion of safety. But that's a discussion for another time. The point is, any person who was hesitant about going to South Beach strapped to drink and party next spring break - as at least a hundred people decided to do this past March, with two bodies to show for it - now can do so without any fear of getting in trouble for a concealed weapon as long as they legally purchased it. Can't imagine what could go wrong.
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Is there not a law about drinking and partying with a CC weapon? I would think that wouldn't be allowed.
 
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JD08 said:
One of the things you learned in class is that you can't carry to bars. Has that changed? Of course, criminals aren't really known to follow the law.
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I'll set aside your point about criminals, which is well taken but it's true whether permitless cc exists or not and to criticize the merits of the law it's best to assume someone who is otherwise carrying legally under it.


For pure bars - that is, establishments with no other purpose - yes, this hasn't changed with the new bill and it would be unlawful to be carrying inside one. But with a place like Miami Beach that restriction is practically meaningless. Most of the spots on that busy strip of South Beach are restaurants that serve alcohol, and in those kinds of establishments the only restriction is you can't be in the "bar area." You can still be in the restaurant and you can still order drinks. Not to mention the number of open air bars where it's sort of not clear where the bar begins and ends (I'm thinking Wet Willies but there are others), and the fact that a lot of people BYO and drink out of their cars or hotels before walking around Collins. You can also legally bring guns into night clubs too (not considered single purpose bars), though in theory the establishments themselves have rules about that and are supposed to be checking people at the door. This isn't only a Miami Beach spring break problem of course but that's a very obvious example where no one can plausibly believe that adding more guns to the situation is going to improve things.
 
CaneintheWilderness said:
I'll set aside your point about criminals, which is well taken but it's true whether permitless cc exists or not and to criticize the merits of the law it's best to assume someone who is otherwise carrying legally under it.


For pure bars - that is, establishments with no other purpose - yes, this hasn't changed with the new bill and it would be unlawful to be carrying inside one. But with a place like Miami Beach that restriction is practically meaningless. Most of the spots on that busy strip of South Beach are restaurants that serve alcohol, and in those kinds of establishments the only restriction is you can't be in the "bar area." You can still be in the restaurant and you can still order drinks. Not to mention the number of open air bars where it's sort of not clear where the bar begins and ends (I'm thinking Wet Willies but there are others), and the fact that a lot of people BYO and drink out of their cars or hotels before walking around Collins. You can also legally bring guns into night clubs too (not considered single purpose bars), though in theory the establishments themselves have rules about that and are supposed to be checking people at the door. This isn't only a Miami Beach spring break problem of course but that's a very obvious example where no one can plausibly believe that adding more guns to the situation is going to improve things.
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But that hasn't really changed. there are over 2.5 million legal carry holders. By and large, the legal gun owners still aren't going to be the problem. There is a legal BAC limit for using a firearm, there probably should be for carry as well, but I expect that will be enacted if an issue arises.
 
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