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Off-Topic Mass killings

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hotshot said:
Maybe coz speed limits in many places are 80 or more.

Seriously, you're not equating a car (not designed to maim or kill) with a high-powered firearm (designed to do just that) are you? If we ban citizens having their own howitzers, grenade launchers and machine guns, why shouldn't AR-type weaponry be added to that prohibited list --- as it once was. Why does anyone other than the military and LE professionals need them?
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Drunks and their cars will kill 100x more children than 'weApunz of Waorzs' will this year.
****, doctors kill like 10x more people per year than guns do...
 
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Suhrthing said:
Drunks and their cars will kill 100x more children than 'weApunz of Waorzs' will this year.
****, doctors kill like 10x more people per year than guns do...
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CARS have a function of transportation and service. AR 15 are meant to kill the most amount of police officers and children in a 30 second time span. Next!
 
Cribby said:
It was shootings. 100 shootings and 18 deaths in 2021. My bad.

Chicago shootings: 100 shot, 18 fatally, in weekend gun violence across city, CPD says | abc7chicago.com

Chicago%20shootings%20over%20the%20weekend%20involved%20at%20least%20100%20people%2C%20including%2018%20who%20were%20killed%2C%20according%20to%20CPD.
abc7chicago.com abc7chicago.com
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That is very very different. That is almost 4x less than you originally said. Thats like saying 80 kids were killed by this shooter in Texas.
 
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OriginalGatorHater said:
Yes drugs do come over the border, but they are also FAR more lucrative than illegal gun sales. A way larger portion of the country is willing to partake in illegal drug use versus buying illegal guns. You buy way more illegal drugs, than you would illegal guns.

Not to mention a lot of illegal drugs here(just like with guns) were at one point legal. Weed moved from legal states. Pills/codeine that were once prescribed by docs. Meth which was at one point just a few things you bought at a local drug store.

As far as every child soldier carrying AKs. That is because the USSR just threw AKs at any country that said they didn't like support the US. That is no longer happening and most of them are using antique guns. Not to mention its clearly difficult to get AKs as a gang member in the USA. Otherwise they would be using them. Why would a gangster use a glock for a driveby if it was so easy for them to get their hands on an AK? Its one thing for the USSR to give crates and crates of AKs to the actual Gov, or to a warlord that literally controls a region. When compared to gang territory. Let the Russians try to land a helicopter full of AKs in Chicago.
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Would illegal guns from out of the country become cost effective to transport should they suddenly become illegal here? Contrary to popular belief, a gun is not as complex as a nuclear trigger. AKs are made out of stamped steel. The toothpaste isn't going back in the tube.
 
TipDrill said:
This is isn’t the shooter just some rando online. It's just fake news.

Chuds, why vehemently fight against fake news and pretend fake news is the ultimate evil while simultaniously churning out fake news on a daily basis? The public is starting to realize this the more you do this and nobody believes your dumb bull**** anymore.
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Saw it was debunked today. Definitely fake news everywhere. All Social Media platforms has only added multiple layers to it.
 
Suhrthing said:
Drunks and their cars will kill 100x more children than 'weApunz of Waorzs' will this year.
****, doctors kill like 10x more people per year than guns do...
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Cars are also "needed" by the vast majority of the population. Guns are needed by a very small segment. If some new device was created that caused 40k deaths a year,but it was needed by a small chunk of people that lived in Alaska to survive. They would either outlaw it entirely or make a very special exception for the people in Alaska.
 
JD08 said:
True, but drugs still come over the border. Look around the world and see what every child soldier is carrying. Do you think AK47s are hard to come by?
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mirvin88 said:
I mentioned a few times in this thread that I do believe in background checks and more strict criteria to qualify for ownership (testing, classes, psychological exam, etc). Most domestically trafficked guns are from 8 states that do not require background checks. That could possibly help some but traffickers will just find another way. The United States produces something like 46% of exported firearms. Criminals will get their hands on them (there are so many in circulation) or traffic them back in.
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PCBcanefan said:
I think the point is that no matter the laws, people can always find the guns. Even countries that have very strong laws for guns, the gangs and mobs still find them. So whether they were purchased legally from a boarding state, or illegally smuggled in from another country, the ones that really want them are going to find a way to get them.

But you are right, the original purchase of all guns most likely started out as a legal purchase and eventually was sold illegally or stolen and used.
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But isn't the "criminals will get them anyways" argument just a cop-out to not do anything? Throw our arms up and say "we're ****ed anyways" or "fix mental health"? (As an aside, I would like to see how the nationwide segment of gun owners overlaps with people that would be okay with their taxes going up to combat mental health... me thinks you'd hear the word "socialism" thrown around very often if Biden wanted to raise taxes for mental health or even cops in schools.)

But, I agree, criminals WILL still get guns... for now. But if you start to get guns off the street now, doesn't supply and demand dictate that eventually they WON'T be so easy to get? Less supply means higher prices so maybe it becomes a little more difficult to get your hands on a gun. Esp an 18 year old, like this kid. Maybe it takes another generation or two, but why aren't we at least doing something? We all agree that children should not be dying at the rate they are in this country.

It's like the guy that tells himself on December 1 that "I am going to start dieting and exercising on New Years," so he eats like a slob all December... but never ends up starting that diet when NYD rolls around.
 
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OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
The mental health issue is a lot more tricky than people realize. It is super complicated by the intersection of personal civil liberties, legal limits as to detaining individuals, and how our legal system operates. If you’ve never been through the process of trying to have someone, for example, baker acted, you just don’t realize how hard it is to get that done. There are probably literally millions of children writing violent fiction as we speak, but only a minuscule few are going to act on it.

Saying making mental health treatment more accessible sounds good, but what does that entail?

There’s so much talk about this, but I still don’t see practical solutions.

I’m not saying do nothing, and I’m not being personally critical of you, but after all these things happen there’s always a period of two or three days of just the type of discussions we’re having, but nobody comes up with any practical solutions, and at the end of the day, it all fades, until the next one.

I’m just being honest. That’s what happens. Nothing is going to get done. That’s not a political statement that leans one way or the other it’s just a statement of fact.

Oh sure, maybe some esoteric law will get passed by Congress sometime this year, and what impact do you think that’s going to have?
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I agree with this. As the investigation continues we will learn more. For example. I just heard on tv that the shooter bought his first AR on 5/17 or 5/18 then turned around and bought a second one on 5/21. Should that had been a 🚩?

Im pretty sure your purchases are monitored by ATF. I was under the impression that amassing weapons in such a quick succession may trigger a response.
 
JD08 said:
Would illegal guns from out of the country become cost effective to transport should they suddenly become illegal here? Contrary to popular belief, a gun is not as complex as a nuclear trigger. AKs are made out of stamped steel. The toothpaste isn't going back in the tube.
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They are already cost effective to transport here and yes they will become more cost effective if they were outlawed, but still not even close to the level of drugs. Its also a lot easier to hide drugs. Look at prisons. Prisons are filled to the brim with drugs even though they are fully locked down and the border could never even dream of getting locked down as tight as prisons. Yet its very rare for inmates to smuggle in guns.

AKs are still much harder to make than weed or meth. Again, if it was so easy to make them, more people would be using makeshift AKs. They don't. And if your point is "it shouldn't be illegal because they are going to smuggle them in anyway" Then why don't we just legalize drugs while we are at it?
 
scrantoncane said:
But isn't the "criminals will get them anyways" argument just a cop-out to not do anything? Throw our arms up and say "we're ****ed anyways" or "fix mental health"? (As an aside, I would like to see how the nationwide segment of gun owners overlaps with people that would be okay with their taxes going up to combat mental health... me thinks you'd hear the word "socialism" thrown around very often if Biden wanted to raise taxes for mental health or even cops in schools.)

But, I agree, criminals WILL still get guns... for now. But if you start to get guns off the street now, doesn't supply and demand dictate that eventually they WON'T be so easy to get? Less supply means higher prices so maybe it becomes a little more difficult to get your hands on a gun. Esp an 18 year old, like this kid. Maybe it takes another generation or two, but why aren't we at least doing something? We all agree that children should not be dying at the rate they are in this country.

It's like the guy that tells himself on December 1 that "I am going to start dieting and exercising on New Years," so he eats like a slob all December... but never ends up starting that diet when NYD rolls around.
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I posted a link earlier to red flag laws. This guy was known and had issues. He had cut his face up himself. There was a behavioral pattern. Is it better that we remove all guns and just hope he doesn't figure out some other way to kill people?

 
AUcane said:
Does this mean you support stricter background checks to theoretically weed out people with mental issues? Ya know, there can be more than one cause of the shootings. It’s not a mental issue OR a gun control issue.
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OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
The mental health issue is a lot more tricky than people realize. It is super complicated by the intersection of personal civil liberties, legal limits as to detaining individuals, and how our legal system operates. If you’ve never been through the process of trying to have someone, for example, baker acted, you just don’t realize how hard it is to get that done. There are probably literally millions of children writing violent fiction as we speak, but only a minuscule few are going to act on it.

Saying making mental health treatment more accessible sounds good, but what does that entail?

There’s so much talk about this, but I still don’t see practical solutions.

I’m not saying do nothing, and I’m not being personally critical of you, but after all these things happen there’s always a period of two or three days of just the type of discussions we’re having, but nobody comes up with any practical solutions, and at the end of the day, it all fades, until the next one.

I’m just being honest. That’s what happens. Nothing is going to get done. That’s not a political statement that leans one way or the other it’s just a statement of fact.

Oh sure, maybe some esoteric law will get passed by Congress sometime this year, and what impact do you think that’s going to have?
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Prioritizing mental health requires funding and more importantly access, like most countries do. Here, access to mental health treatment (actually, all health care) is determined on insurance coverage. Many of those countries with stricter gun laws also consider health care a right.

List of countries with universal health care - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

If you are on medicaid, you can get access to a therapist and someone to write you a script for meds. However, most phsych/therapists won't take someone on medicaid because the process of receiving payment is much more convoluted, than a typical well-off person on insurance with a copay.

The vast majority of the country is for universal background checks. It doesn't happen because of a lack of political will. 72% of NRA membership support it.

 
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OriginalGatorHater said:
They are already cost effective to transport here and yes they will become more cost effective if they were outlawed, but still not even close to the level of drugs. Its also a lot easier to hide drugs. Look at prisons. Prisons are filled to the brim with drugs even though they are fully locked down and the border could never even dream of getting locked down as tight as prisons. Yet its very rare for inmates to smuggle in guns.

AKs are still much harder to make than weed or meth. Again, if it was so easy to make them, more people would be using makeshift AKs. They don't. And if your point is "it shouldn't be illegal because they are going to smuggle them in anyway" Then why don't we just legalize drugs while we are at it?
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Again, once it becomes cost effective, things change. Look at ghost guns. The AR lower receiver is machined from a block of aluminum. That's not all that difficult to do.
 
scrantoncane said:
But isn't the "criminals will get them anyways" argument just a cop-out to not do anything? Throw our arms up and say "we're ****ed anyways" or "fix mental health"? (As an aside, I would like to see how the nationwide segment of gun owners overlaps with people that would be okay with their taxes going up to combat mental health... me thinks you'd hear the word "socialism" thrown around very often if Biden wanted to raise taxes for mental health or even cops in schools.)

But, I agree, criminals WILL still get guns... for now. But if you start to get guns off the street now, doesn't supply and demand dictate that eventually they WON'T be so easy to get? Less supply means higher prices so maybe it becomes a little more difficult to get your hands on a gun. Esp an 18 year old, like this kid. Maybe it takes another generation or two, but why aren't we at least doing something? We all agree that children should not be dying at the rate they are in this country.

It's like the guy that tells himself on December 1 that "I am going to start dieting and exercising on New Years," so he eats like a slob all December... but never ends up starting that diet when NYD rolls around.
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How about this. Instead of sending billions to Ukraine and further inflate this economy. How about investing some of that money for school security and mental health?
 
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OriginalGatorHater said:
Cars are also "needed" by the vast majority of the population. Guns are needed by a very small segment. If some new device was created that caused 40k deaths a year,but it was needed by a small chunk of people that lived in Alaska to survive. They would either outlaw it entirely or make a very special exception for the people in Alaska.
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Cars dont 'need' to go faster than the speed limit - was my point. Next time someone asks why anyone 'needs' an ar-15 I'll just say 'its none of your gd business'!
 
Dan E. Dangerously said:
Prioritizing mental health requires funding and more importantly access, like most countries do. Here, access to mental health treatment (actually, all health care) is determined on insurance coverage. Those countries with stricter gun laws also consider health care a right.

List of countries with universal health care - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

If you are on medicaid, you can get access to a therapist and someone to write you a script for meds. However, most phsych/therapists won't take someone on medicaid because the process of receiving payment is much more convoluted, than a typical well-off person on insurance with a copay.

The vast majority of the country is for universal background checks. It doesn't happen because of a lack of political will. 72% of NRA membership support it.

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Its not just that is convoluted. The Medicaid reimbursement rate is far lower than that of regular insurance. Most good doctors don't take Medicaid because they end up getting paid less.
 
JD08 said:
I posted a link earlier to red flag laws. This guy was known and had issues. He had cut his face up himself. There was a behavioral pattern. Is it better that we remove all guns and just hope he doesn't figure out some other way to kill people?

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But isn't that what I just said? Hey, lets keep guns because he would've found another way anyways? Dog chasing its tail.

Idk. Those red flag laws prevent known criminals and mentally ill from getting guns. But if you have no police record, what do they really do?

I would also think that any attempt to "profile" people (say, a teacher says she thinks little Johnny is a little off and might be dangerous) wouldn't hold up either... if little Johnny isn't convicted of something, why should he be on a watchlist? Isn't that government overreach too?
 
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