Off-Topic Mass killings

[BoxingRobes]

The 'intent' was for 'the people' to be able to fight a war, not hunt rabbits or shoot skeet. And 'well-regulated' in that time meant well-oiled, well-armed, well-kept etc... not 'well moderated by the state'.

I whole-heartedly agree with your last statement though.

I understand the intent, and I agree with where you are coming from...however, the more time we spend interpreting words and intent through the lens of people from 1787 that could not imagine the world we live in today, the less time we have to getting something done about our contemporary issues. The second amendment, gun control, and our spiraling domestic safety as a nation are the dictionary definition of how the problem of interpreting intent creates our current landscape.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Yeah but no gun control law makes guns disappear. The only people that would hand over there guns are the people who are not using them for crime.

You can have a working AK thats 80 years old. Guns are so entrenched into this society that they are here to stay.

Politicians yank peoples chains about them for votes. They have no solutions. But let me ask you this... which side is responsible for our mental health crisis?

Your answer is why people are not screaming about that... there are no votes when you have no one to blame but yourself. And the hysteria (which drives radicals) in this country is at an all time high because people can live in their echo chambers more now than ever. They can find information that drives their selected hate every single second of the day. They barely have to interact with people they don't agree with. The media drives hate as strategy to get more viewers. Hate sells and business is great but these are the consequences.

I would say that no gun has ever made anyone kill another person on purpose, but everyone who kills another person on purpose is mad. To me people need to call out politicians and the media for creating this mess and stop letting them distract us with more vote getting non solutions. They will use the deaths of these kids to get votes while the rhetoric they use in doing so will silently create the next round of killers.

An AK is a terrible example since, one they aren't very used gun in murders in chicago and they are a huge outlier.

Which side is responsible? Both sides. Neither of them want to help stop poverty which is the main cause for crime in chicago.

 

[Citizen Cane]

Will "gun confiscator" become the newest trending job in the US? How much would you charge an hour to knock on some guy's shack in West Virginia to inform him that you are taking his guns?

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Agreed. Civilians owned cannons and warships in those times etc.

Yup. Alright, so we are on the same page here then haha.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Will "gun confiscator" become the newest trending job in the US? How much would you charge an hour to knock on some guy's shack in West Virginia to inform him that you are taking his guns?

They would just send the cops like they do in black neighborhoods when they find out they have illegal guns.

 

[Dan E. Dangerously]

What is that going to stop? The guns are already out there. It’s a nice talking point but it solves nothing.

It's why I said as a starting point, versus the policy of absolutely nothing we've been doing. I don't care if guns are outlawed and taken away, like they did in Australia in the 90s. Canada has gun ownership and they don't have these issues with the frequency we do. It also involves making mental health treatment far more accessible than it currently is, to the point there isn't an out of pocket expense.

 

[Citizen Cane]

They would just send the cops like they do in black neighborhoods when they find out they have illegal guns.

I hear ya...but it'll never happen. It's just not even a discussion. You can't take people's firearms without some serious pushback. Look how people lost their minds when they were told they had to get a vaccine lol

 

[Suhrthing]

I understand the intent, and I agree with where you are coming from...however, the more time we spend interpreting words and intent through the lens of people from 1787 that could not imagine the world we live in today, the less time we have to getting something done about our contemporary issues. The second amendment, gun control, and our spiraling domestic safety as a nation are the dictionary definition of how the problem of interpreting intent creates our current landscape.

I dunno man, I think they were wise beyond their years. The more things change, the more they stay the same. If the founders could see the state of our corrupt leadership today - they'd probably be asking us WTF we're waiting for.

 

[MidnightCane]

Agreed. Civilians owned cannons and warships in those times etc.

We should be able to own tanks. Not sure about fighter jets though, you need an airport like John Travolta in Ocala.

 

[JD08]

Come on. You know those things aren't even close to the same. Anyone can make or grow drugs. Not anyone can make an effective gun.

True, but drugs still come over the border. Look around the world and see what every child soldier is carrying. Do you think AK47s are hard to come by?

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

I hear ya...but it'll never happen. It's just not even a discussion. You can't take people's firearms without some serious pushback. Look how people lost their minds when they were told they had to get a vaccine lol

Of course. It would start a civil war.

 

[hotshot]

Why does any citizen need a car than can travel faster than 70MPH?

Maybe coz speed limits in many places are 80 or more.

Seriously, you're not equating a car (not designed to maim or kill) with a high-powered firearm (designed to do just that) are you? If we ban citizens having their own howitzers, grenade launchers and machine guns, why shouldn't AR-type weaponry be added to that prohibited list --- as it once was. Why does anyone other than the military and LE professionals need them?

 

[westcoastcanes]

It was shootings. 100 shootings and 18 deaths in 2021. My bad.

Chicago shootings: 100 shot, 18 fatally, in weekend gun violence across city, CPD says | abc7chicago.com

Chicago%20shootings%20over%20the%20weekend%20involved%20at%20least%20100%20people%2C%20including%2018%20who%20were%20killed%2C%20according%20to%20CPD.

abc7chicago.com

I did a quick google, because I DO remember coverage of the 4th of July weekend, just not 70 deaths in Chicago. Here is ten+ different media outlets of various leanings, regional and national, domestic and international, referencing 4th of July shootings including Chicago specifically. Fox, CNN, NPR, CBS, AP, etc what is your bar for coverage in MSM?

At least 150 people killed in 400 shootings over the Fourth of July weekend

More than 90 people were reportedly injured in shootings in Chicago over the weekend

www.independent.co.uk

Chicago’s Independence Day weekend marred by violence, with at least 108 people shot, 17 fatally

At least 108 people were shot in Chicago over the long Independence Day weekend, including two police officers; children, including 5- and 6-year-old girls; and a group of six people early Monday i…

www.chicagotribune.com

4th Of July Shootings Across The Country Killed More Than 180 People

The Gun Violence Archive reports that shootings across the country this holiday weekend claimed the lives of more than 180 people.

www.npr.org

More than 230 people fatally shot in shootings over the Fourth of July weekend

At least 233 people were killed and 618 people were injured by gun violence in more than 500 shootings across the country during the Fourth of July weekend, a 26% drop from last year's holiday weekend, according to the latest data compiled by the Gun Violence Archive.

www.cnn.com

14 Dead In Gun Violence Over Fourth Of July Weekend In Chicago

The United States celebrated Independence Day with parades, barbecues and fireworks, but in violence-plagued Chicago, 88 people were shot, 14 of them fatally.

www.ndtv.com

16 killed, over 100 shot, during Fourth of July weekend in Chicago

Bullets struck six children in total over the weekend.

wgntv.com

At least 82 Shot, 14 Fatally, In Independence Day Weekend Shootings In Chicago

At least 82 people have been shot, 14 of them fatally, since 5 p.m. Friday and in a violent holiday weekend in Chicago.

www.cbsnews.com

Chicago police: 100 shot, 18 homicides over holiday weekend

CHICAGO (AP) — One hundred people — including two police officers — were shot in Chicago over the long Fourth of July weekend, including 18 homicides, the city's police department said Tuesday.

apnews.com

July 4 bloodbath: 379 are shot - 142 fatally - across US this weekend

Multiple US cities saw horrific shootings over the July 4 weekend, with Chicago, Philly, Dallas and New York among those worst hit. At least 165 were shot across all four, with 49 killed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

At least 150 killed in nationwide shootings this July 4th weekend: data

As many as 150 people were shot dead in at least 450 acts of gun violence across the country over the Fourth of July weekend.

nypost.com

Chicago violence spikes over July 4 weekend with up to 88 shootings

Chicago saw an incredibly violent holiday weekend as July Fourth saw around 88 people shot, including over a dozen killed in crimes across the city.

www.foxnews.com

At Least 12 Children Among 100 Shot in Chicago Over July 4th Weekend

As of Tuesday morning, none of the injured children had died, but at least three were in critical condition, according to authorities.

www.newsweek.com

More than 100 wounded, 14 killed in Chicago over July 4th weekend

Chicago police spokesman Officer Jose Estrada said he could not verify but would not dispute the numbers reported by local media.

www.usatoday.com

Fourth of July weekend saw more mass shootings than any other weekend this year: report

The number of mass shootings over the Fourth of July weekend topped any other weekend this year, new research shows.According to the Gun Violence Archive, there were 14 mass shootings over the holi…

thehill.com

At least 150 killed in more than 400 shootings over July 4 weekend

The holiday period continued a trend of deadly violent weekends in the U.S.

www.axios.com

189 People Dead in 500+ Shootings Over Fourth of July Weekend

The Gun Violence Archive has compiled data from shooting incidents and gun-violence victims over a 72-hour period between Friday to Sunday.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[Dan E. Dangerously]

Ok someone please edumacate me. Whats the difference between the background check i took in Bass Pro Shops for my Remington 870 Tac to this “Universal Background” check that always gets thrown in conversation whenever something like this happens. Serious question.

Not all firearms or firearm sales require a background check. Some private sales, "the gunshow loophole," have always existed like under the Brady Bill. There's also one particular firearm that seems to always be used in these situations.

 

[Suhrthing]

Let’s be real here.

If we’re going to be honest, nobody here really is hitting the core issue.

The one solution that we know works, is a complete outlawing of the private ownership of most firearms, and the subsequent mass collection of any outstanding firearms. Anything else is just a bullshlt measure that won’t prevent what’s happened. Basically a clone of what they did in the UK after the Scotland school massacre many years ago.

That’s the only question that needs to be answered because that’s the only solution that will prevent mass shootings if you want to approach it from the gun angle.

That’s the one solution that we know works, because it’s been proven in the real world.

There is also the possibility of hardening every single school in the nation but I don’t even know how practical that would be. The logistics and cost might be prohibitive, and it may even take many years to get it all done.

So the question you have to ask yourself is are you for English type gun control or not. Anything else you’re just kidding yourself.

Absolutely, I've been saying this for years. There are no incremental gun-laws that will change the reality of this situation. You are either lying - and you support incremental changes to the end goal of full confiscation; or you're pie-in-the-sky ignorant.

PS regarding hardening schools... redeploying the 50bil spent on UKR this year alone could have have provided every public school in America with half a million dollars to support homicidal incel protection.

 

[scrantoncane]

We also need to stop trying to interpret the intent of people that had no idea about anything modernity would bring. Young adults shooting up classrooms of 3rd graders was not in their world view nor was the mental health of citizens collectively something they would consider.

I agree with you. However, I can respect the Federalist Society types that argue for the text of the Constitution to control. At some point, the legislature needs to do its job and take it out of the hands of the courts (who are tasked with trying to interpret the intent, as you stated).

The partisan divide that plagues this country is a huge contributing factor. It is kinda crazy that there have only been 2 Amendments to the Constitution in the last 50 years. You would think that, as the world evolves in ways no one could ever imagine even 50 years ago, there would be at least a few topics with bipartisan support that would give rise to an amendment.

 

[BoxingRobes]

I dunno man, I think they were wise beyond their years. The more things change, the more they stay the same. If the founders could see the state of our corrupt leadership today - they'd probably be asking us WTF we're waiting for.

On a macro level...I agree, sure. Unfortunately, the further we are removed from them, we are becoming more aware of the blind spots...and my overall point was that I give them credit for being wise beyond their years in that we should take a more direct approach to what they wrote in the Constitution instead of trying to wrap our minds around intent to concepts these men couldn't fathom.

I do agree, they'd meltdown if they saw what had become of this nation...and I think they'd be disgusted at the way people have interpreted that piece of paper over the years.

 

[MidnightCane]

Maybe coz speed limits in many places are 80 or more.

Seriously, you're not equating a car (not designed to maim or kill) with a high-powered firearm (designed to do just that) are you? If we ban citizens having their own howitzers, grenade launchers and machine guns, why shouldn't AR-type weaponry be added to that prohibited list --- as it once was. Why does anyone other than the military and LE professionals need them?

Lol @ Machine guns. Do you even know what an AR is? Or do you just picture this ugly evil black weapon in your head associated with Mass shootings?

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

True, but drugs still come over the border. Look around the world and see what every child soldier is carrying. Do you think AK47s are hard to come by?

Yes drugs do come over the border, but they are also FAR more lucrative than illegal gun sales. A way larger portion of the country is willing to partake in illegal drug use versus buying illegal guns. You buy way more illegal drugs, than you would illegal guns.

Not to mention a lot of illegal drugs here(just like with guns) were at one point legal. Weed moved from legal states. Pills/codeine that were once prescribed by docs. Meth which was at one point just a few things you bought at a local drug store.

As far as every child soldier carrying AKs. That is because the USSR just threw AKs at any country that said they didn't like support the US. That is no longer happening and most of them are using antique guns. Not to mention its clearly difficult to get AKs as a gang member in the USA. Otherwise they would be using them. Why would a gangster use a glock for a driveby if it was so easy for them to get their hands on an AK? Its one thing for the USSR to give crates and crates of AKs to the actual Gov, or to a warlord that literally controls a region. When compared to gang territory. Let the Russians try to land a helicopter full of AKs in Chicago.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

It's why I said as a starting point, versus the policy of absolutely nothing we've been doing. I don't care if guns are outlawed and taken away, like they did in Australia in the 90s. Canada has gun ownership and they don't have these issues with the frequency we do. It also involves making mental health treatment far more accessible.

The mental health issue is a lot more tricky than people realize. It is super complicated by the intersection of personal civil liberties, legal limits as to detaining individuals, and how our legal system operates. If you’ve never been through the process of trying to have someone, for example, baker acted, you just don’t realize how hard it is to get that done. There are probably literally millions of children writing violent fiction as we speak, but only a minuscule few are going to act on it.

Saying making mental health treatment more accessible sounds good, but what does that entail?

There’s so much talk about this, but I still don’t see practical solutions.

I’m not saying do nothing, and I’m not being personally critical of you, but after all these things happen there’s always a period of two or three days of just the type of discussions we’re having, but nobody comes up with any practical solutions, and at the end of the day, it all fades, until the next one.

I’m just being honest. That’s what happens. Nothing is going to get done. That’s not a political statement that leans one way or the other it’s just a statement of fact.

Oh sure, maybe some esoteric law will get passed by Congress sometime this year, and what impact do you think that’s going to have?