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Off-Topic Mass killings

OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
Two days of training in the last couple of years is not nearly enough for something so critical.

Obviously you have to sacrifice yourself and go in if necessary, but go in at all costs, and you can read that in a textbook, but unless that’s drilled into you, for some people the instinct for self-preservation will take over. This needs to be drilled into every police officer everywhere, all the time. Because these things aren’t going to stop tomorrow.

Also, a catastrophic failure of leadership on site. Just heart wrenchingly inept.
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This is why elite units are elite. It's a combo of constant training, repetition, and mindset.

I think a major issue is loss of manpower now though. This can be a chicken or the egg debate, but with the defund the police movement, there are less and less people willing to start a LEO career, and many veteran officers are turning in earlier than they would have. You still have to have patrol officers on the streets and most departments are already getting stretched thin. It's not always feasible, or safe for the public, to schedule a heavy training load for patrol officers who already completed their basic FTO.
 
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Now the excuse du jour is that it was a barricade situation rather than an active shooter. Even if it was, wouldn’t you first confirm that all kids are out? If not, it should be treated as an active shooter as long as kids are still in the school.
 
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Caneinator said:
This is why elite units are elite. It's a combo of constant training, repetition, and mindset.

I think a major issue is loss of manpower now though. This can be a chicken or the egg debate, but with the defund the police movement, there are less and less people willing to start a LEO career, and many veteran officers are turning in earlier than they would have. You still have to have patrol officers on the streets and most departments are already getting stretched thin. It's not always feasible, or safe for the public, to schedule a heavy training load for patrol officers who already completed their basic FTO.
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Reality of life no doubt. Stretching people thin is a recipe for disaster. It becomes a lose lose scenario. Essential personnel like police officers do not close for holidays and vacations as you know, so running thin is always a nearby adversary. Running thin leads to fatigue and bad decision making. That is bad for the public.
 
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One fix would be for law enforcement is :

If you hear gun shots in a room full of children and you have guns at the ready yiu must try to save them not wait for support it’s to arrive 20 minutes later then meet and make a politically correct plan .
Oh and wait for the janitor to arrive with keys to unlock the door .
 
AUcane said:
Now the excuse du jour is that it was a barricade situation rather than an active shooter. Even if it was, wouldn’t you first confirm that all kids are out? If not, it should be treated as an active shooter as long as kids are still in the school.
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If there was even one shot fired during this "barricaded suspect" situation (and I believe the police account says there were multiple fired), it would automatically turn into an active shooter/breech situation anyways.
 
GOCANES05 said:
One fix would be for law enforcement is :

If you hear gun shots in a room full of children and you have guns at the ready yiu must try to save them not wait for support it’s to arrive 20 minutes later then meet and make a politically correct plan .
Oh and wait for the janitor to arrive with keys to unlock the door .
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That’s already in their training and they JUST had this training a month or so ago. That’s the maddening part.
 
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GOCANES05 said:
One fix would be for law enforcement is :

If you hear gun shots in a room full of children and you have guns at the ready yiu must try to save them not wait for support it’s to arrive 20 minutes later then meet and make a politically correct plan .
Oh and wait for the janitor to arrive with keys to unlock the door .
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That's not a fix for law enforcement, that's already SOP for, I assume, every agency. It's inexplicable why this was not followed by these officers.
 
Caneinator said:
That's not a fix for law enforcement, that's already SOP for, I assume, every agency. It's inexplicable why this was not followed by these officers.
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I misconstrued sorry, what I meant is police have there hands tied . We need to take the gloves off to battle crime.

You can’t have political officers run the police departments.

We have to be more aggressive then the enemy.

I saw a news bite while some punk brandished a gun at the camera , criminals are enabled and emboldened to run free.
 
People are certainly reconsidering their employment options. Police officers are no different. Anyone remember RoboCop? Don't let me be the voice of reason here, but are Robo Cops and Drones the next wave of police and military forces for humans here on Earth? Those sectors represent a lot of money and a lot of jobs.
 
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A little on the Uvalde CISD Police Chief who is also the 'Resource Officer', and was the Incident Commander

- He is a former 911 dispatcher. After 20 years he worked way up to assistant police chief. Worked various jobs for Webb County Sheriff's office in Laredo, TX. Covid gave him the opportunity to return home to Uvalde.
- He was elected to Uvalde city council recently, campaigned on platform of communication and community outreach

- He (Resource Officer) initial reported he was on campus and exchanged fire with the gunman in the back of the building
- DPS reported yesterday he was actually off campus, and when he came back he drove directly past the gunman in the parking lot who was between cars (and maybe firing at the windows), went to the back of the building, and confronted a male teacher who he mistook for the gunman
- I wonder if he engaged the male teacher. He initially said he fired shots at the back of the building.
 
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JD08 said:
Have you heard some of the side effects for those depression/anxiety meds? I'm not saying that's the cause, but it would be worth investigating if the number of homicides/suicides would be even greater without the meds.
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I will say that a couple of years ago my daughter was put on depression meds and she tried committing suicide within a month of being on them. She said that she never really had suicidal thoughts prior but they became overwhelming and she decided to take the whole bottle one day.
 
I'm sure it's been posted in here but haven't taken the time to look through all the pages


more kids killed in classrooms this year than police in line of duty

obviously would hope both are zero but this is a wild *** statistic and something needs to be done, regardless of people's political or compensation priorities
 
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MISTER OWL said:
A little on the Uvalde CISD Police Chief who is also the 'Resource Officer', and was the Incident Commander

- He is a former 911 dispatcher. After 20 years he worked way up to assistant police chief. Worked various jobs for Webb County Sheriff's office in Laredo, TX. Covid gave him the opportunity to return home to Uvalde.
- He was elected to Uvalde city council recently, campaigned on platform of communication and community outreach

- He (Resource Officer) initial reported he was on campus and exchanged fire with the gunman in the back of the building
- DPS reported yesterday he was actually off campus, and when he came back he drove directly past the gunman in the parking lot who was between cars (and maybe firing at the windows), went to the back of the building, and confronted a male teacher who he mistook for the gunman
- I wonder if he engaged the male teacher. He initially said he fired shots at the back of the building.
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A dispatcher has no business being a police chief or a resource officer. Did this guy go to a police academy? Does he have any tactical training? Based on the outcome I am likely to say no.

I loved and relied on our dispatchers, but they are not road officers/deputies.

And do I read this correctly that he was the lead and was a school police dept chief? Not the municipal police department?
 
407cane said:
I'm sure it's been posted in here but haven't taken the time to look through all the pages


more kids killed in classrooms this year than police in line of duty

obviously would hope both are zero but this is a wild *** statistic and something needs to be done, regardless of people's political or compensation priorities
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Interesting statistic but consider the following…

1) It’s easier to kill unarmed children in classrooms than armed policemen.
2) there are way more children in classrooms than there are policemen… so if killing was a completely random act, you would expect more children to be killed in classrooms than policemen.

The things that prevent this statistic from being a constant truism are empathy, strong societal frameworks, and rational though. Unfortunately, there are those among us who lack empathy, lose the ability for rational thought, and are able to find a society through social media that works with a different framework. This is the case of the Buffalo shooter. Others, like the Uvalde shooter, take themselves out of societal frameworks altogether. If someone like this has access to any weapon of mass destruction, there’s not much we can do about it… so our options are to 1) effect the individual (prevent/identify/rehabilitate/restrict) or 2) effect the access of such individuals to destructive weapons.
 
Caneinator said:
And do I read this correctly that he was the lead and was a school police dept chief? Not the municipal police department?
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Yes, that's correct. The school district had their own police department and he was chief of the school district police, not part of the municipal. And he was Incident Commander
 
GOCANES05 said:
Lawsuits will be of EPIC proportions and they should be.

Government says we’ve learned from past mass children killings REALLY.

Probably only added political advisers.
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Who in your eyes is in legal trouble here? It isn’t the police, they aren’t legally obligated to confront the shooter here if that Supreme Court decision also covers this circumstance, like it did for stoneman.
 
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