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Lonnie entering the draft

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Consigliere said:
Is that video good?
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I liked it. A lot of the expected nostalgia and asking Lonnie about why he's going and what he expects and wants (what team does he want to go to, etc, and Lonnie is understandably prudent in his answers), but they talk with L about Huell and Brown a little, and how Coach is going to fill out the team with several players potentially leaving. Says Gak is raw like when Huell came in, but he expects him to be a big contributor next year, and Wilson has a good 3 pt shot. That's pretty much most of it haha.
 
DTP said:
LMAO. In the 80's the big complaint was that teams played no defense, so in the 90's they started to let teams get away with more physical play ie: hand checking, grabbing, holding, basically Pat Riley era Knicks basketball. Towards the turn of the century, NBA fans got tired of 88-79 snoozers so they changed the rules again to allow for more scoring and a faster pace. Yes, guys don't play "defense" like they used to but it's because they're not allowed to anymore. As for the lack of low post scorers, two reasons for that. The first is the legalization of zone defense in the NBA. Teams no longer have to throw some journeyman 7 footer out against a star center and hope he can stop him by himself. The second is the three pointer. It took forever for teams to realize but shooting 35% on threes is better than shooting 50% on twos. It's the same reason you don't see the midrange jump shot much anymore. Technically it's the worst shot you can take. So here were are in 2018 with a bunch of fast paced, three point shooting teams that are restricted on how they can play defense. You build your team as the rules of the league dictate. There's a reason why the two highest scoring teams in the league are the heavy favorites to win the title.
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That's a great post. When I moved to Las Vegas in 1984 the average NBA over/under was something like 219. Nuggets games would be in the low 240s. It was insulting basketball. Even the touted Laker and Celtics teams of that era played very little defense. They would let you have an uncontested 10 footer throughout the game and only clamp down marginally at crunch time.

Chuck Daly and the Pistons changed the game. Drastically for the better, IMO. Showtime didn't go away willingly. It was nullified by superior sustained intensity and legitimate defense over 48 minutes. I had friends in Las Vegas who absolutely despised that Pistons team because they were "over" bettors. Suddenly the over bets were not cashing any more. I loved it as an under bettor because it took a long time for the oddsmakers and sportsbooks to adjust to the new reality. Those totals didn't drop nearly as sharply as they should have. When the matchup was favorable I was sometimes winning an under by 30-50 points. From the outset of the game you knew it would take double overtime to defeat you.

During those years I remember showing friends some tapes I had of the famous Laker/Celtic battles from the early to mid '80s. They were in disbelief. Jaws literally dropped. Stunned silence. Those teams were remembered in awe but now when you were watching them in comparison to the relentless defense played league wide in the late '80s through mid to later '90s suddenly those Laker and Celtic teams looked like cupcake teams that didn't play a lick of defense. Michael Cooper was winning defensive player of the year awards in that era but watching him a decade later it didn't look like he could qualify as above average by mid '90s standards.

BTW, Scottie Pippen never received enough credit for what an awesome defender he was. There was a well known stat in betting circles that Bulls opponents scored a ridiculously higher percentage of points per minute when Pippen was off the court as opposed to on the court. Guys would bet that angle heavily when Pippen was injured or taking a game off.

I preferred that era. Cavalier totals would sometimes be in low 160s. High 160s as a rule.

I knew it would never last. Frankly I'm surprised the league allowed defense of that type for as long as it did.

The current pro game is incomparably boring, IMO. Centers should rule the game, and outside shooters properly mocked as kids who simply can't do anything else so they lounge 25 feet away.

I find it basically unwatchable.

***

Regarding Lonnie Walker, this was inevitable so I never cared one way or another. Not a smart player. I certainly wouldn't want him on my NBA team. Not in a meaningful role anyway. The end of his college career was wonderfully apropos because he wasn't even smart enough to turn and keep the ball away from the defender when the Canes led 62-61 and he received that inbounds pass on the left sideline. That shouldn't require any coaching whatsoever. Only a complete dope with no basketball game-ending instincts would intentionally spin his body to the inside, allowing the ball to be exposed fully to the defender trying to foul him or slap the ball away.

Lonnie Walker got what he deserved in that situation, and eventually the Canes did as well.
 
nycane said:
dude i watch the nba. the quality of play is HORRIBLE. no one plays defense, big man can even post up, guys dont have mid-range games, etc
do you realize how many points a guy like michael jordan, isiah thomas, or larry bird would score with todays rules and lack of fundamentals?
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Imagine Wilt going against the big men of today.
 
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Awsi Dooger said:
That's a great post. When I moved to Las Vegas in 1984 the average NBA over/under was something like 219. Nuggets games would be in the low 240s. It was insulting basketball. Even the touted Laker and Celtics teams of that era played very little defense. They would let you have an uncontested 10 footer throughout the game and only clamp down marginally at crunch time.

Chuck Daly and the Pistons changed the game. Drastically for the better, IMO. Showtime didn't go away willingly. It was nullified by superior sustained intensity and legitimate defense over 48 minutes. I had friends in Las Vegas who absolutely despised that Pistons team because they were "over" bettors. Suddenly the over bets were not cashing any more. I loved it as an under bettor because it took a long time for the oddsmakers and sportsbooks to adjust to the new reality. Those totals didn't drop nearly as sharply as they should have. When the matchup was favorable I was sometimes winning an under by 30-50 points. From the outset of the game you knew it would take double overtime to defeat you.

During those years I remember showing friends some tapes I had of the famous Laker/Celtic battles from the early to mid '80s. They were in disbelief. Jaws literally dropped. Stunned silence. Those teams were remembered in awe but now when you were watching them in comparison to the relentless defense played league wide in the late '80s through mid to later '90s suddenly those Laker and Celtic teams looked like cupcake teams that didn't play a lick of defense. Michael Cooper was winning defensive player of the year awards in that era but watching him a decade later it didn't look like he could qualify as above average by mid '90s standards.

BTW, Scottie Pippen never received enough credit for what an awesome defender he was. There was a well known stat in betting circles that Bulls opponents scored a ridiculously higher percentage of points per minute when Pippen was off the court as opposed to on the court. Guys would bet that angle heavily when Pippen was injured or taking a game off.

I preferred that era. Cavalier totals would sometimes be in low 160s. High 160s as a rule.

I knew it would never last. Frankly I'm surprised the league allowed defense of that type for as long as it did.

The current pro game is incomparably boring, IMO. Centers should rule the game, and outside shooters properly mocked as kids who simply can't do anything else so they lounge 25 feet away.

I find it basically unwatchable.

***

Regarding Lonnie Walker, this was inevitable so I never cared one way or another. Not a smart player. I certainly wouldn't want him on my NBA team. Not in a meaningful role anyway. The end of his college career was wonderfully apropos because he wasn't even smart enough to turn and keep the ball away from the defender when the Canes led 62-61 and he received that inbounds pass on the left sideline. That shouldn't require any coaching whatsoever. Only a complete dope with no basketball game-ending instincts would intentionally spin his body to the inside, allowing the ball to be exposed fully to the defender trying to foul him or slap the ball away.

Lonnie Walker got what he deserved in that situation, and eventually the Canes did as well.
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I agree with you, but the NBA realized people would rather buy gear and jerseys of guards then the center so they needed to find a way to make the superstars of the teams guards instead of the centers like it was back in the day.
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
Russell used to tear that *** up at 220. Wilt would get destroyed today if he didn't foul out.
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You do realize Wilt set the rebound record against Russell, right? 55 in one game. Russell had better teams, without question. Also, Wilt never fouled out of a game in his career. He was also one of the strongest men to ever play the game. He would dominate against these scrubs.
 
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ThomasM said:
You do realize Wilt set the rebound record against Russell, right? 55 in one game. Russell had better teams, without question. Also, Wilt never fouled out of a game in his career. He was also one of the strongest men to ever play the game. He would dominate against these scrubs.
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That is one game they played many times with Russel having won the majority of the matchups. Russells team was not that much better he is just a way better team player then Wilt. That is why you always hear about Marburry and Carmello being compared to Wilt in that they are great players, but they don't benefit the team. Ya wilt was very strong for the 60s, but he would be weak compare to now. Have you ever actually seen him play or do you just go by what the old guys in the barbershop tell you? First of all he is the only guy on the floor over 7 foot and most of the other guys he goes against where like 6'5 and unathletic. Go watch some tape of Wilt and come back to me. His little finger roll isn't going to work against another 7 footer. Even when he blocks the ball he jumps a full second after the other guy releases the ball that doesn't work unless you are a foot taller then the other guy. Go watch an NBA game in the 60s of a team besides the Philadelphia warriors/sixers or the lakers. Everyone on those other teams look like local YMCA teams. These where the type of teams he scored 100 on.
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
That is one game they played many times with Russel having won the majority of the matchups. Russells team was not that much better he is just a way better team player then Wilt. That is why you always hear about Marburry and Carmello being compared to Wilt in that they are great players, but they don't benefit the team. Ya wilt was very strong for the 60s, but he would be weak compare to now. Have you ever actually seen him play or do you just go by what the old guys in the barbershop tell you? First of all he is the only guy on the floor over 7 foot and most of the other guys he goes against where like 6'5 and unathletic. Go watch some tape of Wilt and come back to me. His little finger roll isn't going to work against another 7 footer. Even when he blocks the ball he jumps a full second after the other guy releases the ball that doesn't work unless you are a foot taller then the other guy. Go watch an NBA game in the 60s of a team besides the Philadelphia warriors/sixers or the lakers. Everyone on those other teams look like local YMCA teams. These where the type of teams he scored 100 on.
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I saw him block three Kareem sky hooks, and that was at the tail end of his career, and Kareem was young and in his prime. So yeah. And no, he was not going against a bunch of unathletic 6'5" guys. You're believing the lies the modern BB fans like to spread about basketball back then. The league is watered down now with too many teams and too many players.

And yes, the Celtics were far and away the better team in the 60s. Darn near every one of their players is in the HOF for a reason. Wilt is the only reason his team even made the finals so many times, and certainly the reason they won when they did.

As for his strength, ask Artis Gilmour how strong he was. He was one of the strongest men to ever play, and he tells the story of the time Wilt picked him up and simply moved him to where he wanted him to be. Arnold Swartzenegger said that Wilt did things in the gym that his body builder friends couldn't do, and that was 10 years after he retired. You simply have no clue how strong Wilt was, or how athletic. Dude could dunk from the free throw line by taking three steps from inside the top of the key, and you say he's not as athletic as modern players. Seriously?
 
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ThomasM said:
I saw him block three Kareem sky hooks, and that was at the tail end of his career, and Kareem was young and in his prime. So yeah. And no, he was not going against a bunch of unathletic 6'5" guys. You're believing the lies the modern BB fans like to spread about basketball back then. The league is watered down now with too many teams and too many players.

And yes, the Celtics were far and away the better team in the 60s. Darn near every one of their players is in the HOF for a reason. Wilt is the only reason his team even made the finals so many times, and certainly the reason they won when they did.

As for his strength, ask Artis Gilmour how strong he was. He was one of the strongest men to ever play, and he tells the story of the time Wilt picked him up and simply moved him to where he wanted him to be. Arnold Swartzenegger said that Wilt did things in the gym that his body builder friends couldn't do, and that was 10 years after he retired. You simply have no clue how strong Wilt was, or how athletic. Dude could dunk from the free throw line by taking three steps from inside the top of the key, and you say he's not as athletic as modern players. Seriously?
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ya they are in the HOF because they have like 8 rings each at minimum. Just starting in that many ships will get you a ring. Basically every one agrees that wilt was the marburry of his era. I don't need to hear people talk about the league I watch it with my own eyes. They sucked back then. besides russ and wilt not a single one of them would be able to play in a power 6 school let alone the NBA. Body builders aren't that strong. They are stronger then your average person, but any center today would destroy a bodybuilder in strength. powerlifters and strongmen those are the strong guys. I never said wilt isn't athletic. I am saying because he was the first 7 foot athletic guy he could dominate a bunch of 6'4 scrubs. Put cousins in that league and hes going to average 100 points a game. No he isn't as athletic as the guys today though he could jump far, but thats about it. Dwight Howard could almost jump that far and he has a foot shorter wingspan.
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
ya they are in the HOF because they have like 8 rings each at minimum. Just starting in that many ships will get you a ring. Basically every one agrees that wilt was the marburry of his era. I don't need to hear people talk about the league I watch it with my own eyes. They sucked back then. besides russ and wilt not a single one of them would be able to play in a power 6 school let alone the NBA. Body builders aren't that strong. They are stronger then your average person, but any center today would destroy a bodybuilder in strength. powerlifters and strongmen those are the strong guys. I never said wilt isn't athletic. I am saying because he was the first 7 foot athletic guy he could dominate a bunch of 6'4 scrubs. Put cousins in that league and hes going to average 100 points a game. No he isn't as athletic as the guys today though he could jump far, but thats about it. Dwight Howard could almost jump that far and he has a foot shorter wingspan.
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hakeem in his prime would light him up. Shaq would have bullied him.
 
nycane said:
hakeem in his prime would light him up. Shaq would have bullied him.
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Shaq would have gotten killed by Wilt. Man, you people have listened to the BS narrative too long that Wilt was just taller than everyone else. Tell me, why didn't Manute Bol or any of the other 7'7" guys dominate? ****, they were taller than everyone else. Wilt went against plenty 7 footers. Dear God, the guy was a sprinter, high jumper, and the most physically imposing man to ever play the game. You hear "Wilt the Stilt" and you think he was skinny or something. Dude was big, strong, fast, and had the stamina to play 48 minutes a game. Not to mention the man was smart.

Go listen to Larry Brown talk about the time in the early 80s that Wilt was playing in a pickup game against Magic Johnson and the Lakers. Magic ticked him off and Wilt didn't allow another basket. That's 10 years after he retired. I guess basketball players in the 80s sucked as well?
 
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ThomasM said:
Shaq would have gotten killed by Wilt. Man, you people have listened to the BS narrative too long that Wilt was just taller than everyone else. Tell me, why didn't Manute Bol or any of the other 7'7" guys dominate? ****, they were taller than everyone else. Wilt went against plenty 7 footers. Dear God, the guy was a sprinter, high jumper, and the most physically imposing man to ever play the game. You hear "Wilt the Stilt" and you think he was skinny or something. Dude was big, strong, fast, and had the stamina to play 48 minutes a game. Not to mention the man was smart.

Go listen to Larry Brown talk about the time in the early 80s that Wilt was playing in a pickup game against Magic Johnson and the Lakers. Magic ticked him off and Wilt didn't allow another basket. That's 10 years after he retired. I guess basketball players in the 80s sucked as well?
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Because its alot different being a fully functional 7 footer and being a guy 7'7 and being so compromised that you cant even play a full half without doing damage to your knees. Regardless he averaged like 5 blocks a game in the 18 min he played. How old are you? Yea he was big and tall and fast and athletic and strong versus a bunch of YMCA guys, but he would just be an average big in todays league athletically. And since he has awful fundamentals because he was aloud to get away with it all of the other bigs would body him. I have never heard him referred to as smart. Maybe he is book smart I have no idea, but everyone that talks about him refers to him as a guy who plays very well, but at the expense of his teams well being just like Marburry. That is literally all I heard about the knicks back in the day was Marburry is just like Wilt.
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
Because its alot different being a fully functional 7 footer and being a guy 7'7 and being so compromised that you cant even play a full half without doing damage to your knees. Regardless he averaged like 5 blocks a game in the 18 min he played. How old are you? Yea he was big and tall and fast and athletic and strong versus a bunch of YMCA guys, but he would just be an average big in todays league athletically. And since he has awful fundamentals because he was aloud to get away with it all of the other bigs would body him. I have never heard him referred to as smart. Maybe he is book smart I have no idea, but everyone that talks about him refers to him as a guy who plays very well, but at the expense of his teams well being just like Marburry. That is literally all I heard about the knicks back in the day was Marburry is just like Wilt.
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Nah, it's not true. Dude wanted to win badly. That's why he lead the league in assists the year the Lakers won it. He did what he had to do to win, he just didn't always have the talent around him to do it.
Also, they didn't keep stats for blocks back in the day, but Wilt would have the record easily. Not just because he was tall, but because he could block shots 13 feet up. Again, he was far more athletic than people know. He was a chiseled 7'2", much unlike the strong blob Shaq was. He was so athletic, the KC Chiefs drafted him to play TE. He was a freak.
 
ThomasM said:
Nah, it's not true. Dude wanted to win badly. That's why he lead the league in assists the year the Lakers won it. He did what he had to do to win, he just didn't always have the talent around him to do it.
Also, they didn't keep stats for blocks back in the day, but Wilt would have the record easily. Not just because he was tall, but because he could block shots 13 feet up. Again, he was far more athletic than people know. He was a chiseled 7'2", much unlike the strong blob Shaq was. He was so athletic, the KC Chiefs drafted him to play TE. He was a freak.
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I am sure he wanted to win badly, but that doesnt make you a good teammate. I am sure Marburry also wanted to win bad. Yes it was because he was tall. Put Shaq in that league and he would lead the league in blocks. Shaq is WAY stronger then Wilt. And playing tight end for the chiefs in the 60s is not impressive either. If you think the NBA players back the where scrubs don't even talk about the NFL. They where just as bad.
 
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