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Leonard Taylor vs. Gerald Willis

CaliforniaCanes said:
Curious what some of the great minds on this board think on this subject.

Both were 5 star talents. Obviously GWIII had issues at UF but by all accounts seemed to be a good teammate at UM. I recall him being absolutely dominant. He changed the trajectory of multiple games. Seemed he was always involved and any moment he would change the game. I was shocked when he went undrafted in 2019.

Leonard Taylor has been a solid player for us, statistically not the game changer that many had hoped. I do believe he played better than his stats show. However he seemed to disappear for long stretches of games.

Strictly based on watching games, I would have thought GW would be a higher draft pick. Meanwhile LT has been in many mock drafts as a first rounder.

Would appreciate some input from you draft analysts.
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GW was a complete animal that year! VERY consistent. I don’t get how he didn’t make it in the NFL. LT was good but wasn’t as dominant.
 
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hiphopanimal said:
There must have been some serious character issues that didn't come out but NFL got wind of
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It 100% wasn't character.

Look how many chances Aldon Smith got; Frank Clark is still in the league, so is Joe Mixon, Kareem Hunt & host of other guys who had way worse off the field issues than GW3.

He was an undrafted FA for the Ravens the year he declared, he barely made it through training camp, but wound up getting cut. Then got picked up by the Phins & got a cut. Then got signed by the Packers in OTA's & got cut after the 2nd week of training camp.

He was overrated. He benefitted from Manny's Defense that allowed for DL's to press up the field & get pressures on the interior pocket frequently which lead to a high amount of TFL's, but also resulted in a ton of miscontained run plays that would break into the second level. It was a boom or bust system that once OC's figured out that all you had to do was Zone block & create cutback lanes you could gallop all over that Defense, especially considering the middle of the field always being left unaccounted for because Manny would send his LB's on Double A-gap Blitzes on nearly 2 out of every 3 downs a drive.

But GW3 just wasn't that good to sustain a career in the NFL. He was a very limited 1-Tech that didn't really play with good leverage & only really had one move. The reports from the Ravens camp when they signed him as an UDFA from day 1, was that he really struggled with disengaging off blocks & would often times just give up on the play once the Guard put hands on'em. It don't matter what your stats were in college, you do that in the league & you're not gonna last long.

A very large % of what DT's have to do in order to be successful is give effort. That's what is meant when you hear scouts/draft analysts etc.. talk about "motor" when they're breaking down a DLineman. Simply how much effort do you give on a play in & play out basis; and if you're not giving effort, what is the reasoning behind why. Could be conditioning, could be health, could be lack of traits, could be technique, etc..

As it pertains to Willis, there's no mystery or secret crime he committed that kept him off NFL rosters, he just wasn’t that good. Sometimes guys play their best ball in College & can't play a lick in the league & sometimes play like sh*t in college & their best ball in the league, it happens.
 
None of those TFL bros from Manny's defenses went drafted high because the NFL doesn't think highly of guys who just swim move and simply try to penetrate every play.

Our DT's under Manny were terrible at playing with their hands and wanted no part of being a grown man on the inside. They were all finesse. 🤷🏻‍♂️ You guys remember the occasional splash plays but you don't rember all the times that O-linemen drove them to the ****house when their swim move didn't work.

LT will get drafted high because he has better measureables than all of them. He's taller, bigger, built better, faster, etc.
 
Gerald Willis had character/ off the field ..likely a million drug test and a millionaire brother. His motivation was different.

He had a real good 1 year for us though. would take him everytime if i had to.

I repeatedly state i want my dts to be *** hole/douch bage .//bullies
 
I just do not see the first round grade for LT, regardless of how he compares the GW. I did like the Nesta comp. Flashes at times, and they are big time plays no doubt, but also disappears too.
I think he’s a mid round guy. Our guys haven’t exactly produced at the next level like we once did. And the league has taken note. Everyone always talks about our guys getting slept on, but it’s not like they are making waves with their second contracts, many are playing the roster game by then…
But hey, I hope LT shows out at the combine and any workouts. Get your money big man!
 
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Willis was a helluva player. That said, I remember seeing him on campus and was surprised at how smallish his build was (comparatively speaking). He was probably a guy that was a natural 260 to 270 pound lineman but put on an extra 20 to 30 pounds to play inside. He carried a little bad weight. I don’t believe he had the same frame that you expect from interior linemen. I have never seen LT in person, but he seems to have a closer physique and build to what you expect from an NFL interior lineman.
 
Canezum5 said:
There's no denying He's got some questionable film, similar to Gerald there were of plays where that swim move got him washed out of position a few times over his time here.

It just pales in comparison to Gerald Willis. Gerald was egregious at getting washed out and moved off his position by doubles.

A healthy Leonard isn't getting moved bruh.

This ain't quantum physics bro. Literally anyone can learn whose supposed to have what gap.
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Let me know when it is quantum mechanics. I’m your guy.

Bro.
 
Willis played in a system that allowed him to do what he did best. Use his quick first step and swim move to split the gap and get into the backfield. He was a one trick pony but his one trick was effective in college. The difference between guards in college and guards in the NFL is light years. The big slow guys he could blow past in college weren't there in the NFL. He didn't have the ability to beat guys with his hands and disengage. He was also easy to move in the run game since he wasn't as big or strong as someone like LT. I thought Willis could make it in the NFL as a situational pass rush guy but it's clear his talent didn't outweigh his issues. NFL teams will put up with headache players if they're productive. Fringe roster guys who give you problems aren't worth the hassle.

LT has had a questionable motor at times but that's not uncommon with big guys. He does what NFL teams want tackles to do though. He can play the 1 or 3 (he even played 0 this year pretty well) and can get pressure without losing gap integrity. He also has the build of a real 300lb tackle. Taylor doesn't really have bad weight. His legs are tree trunks and his upper body is solid. @AlexCane made a good point about Willis. He played at around 280 here and had a gut. I feel like his natural playing weight, if in good shape, would be closer to 265. People like to use Aaron Donald as the example for a lighter weight DT but if you look at Donald, he's 280 and ripped. He could easily play at 300 if he wanted to carry the weight.
 
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Also, stats don't really tell the story when it comes to defensive tackles.

Brian Bresee from Clemson was drafted in the first round by the Saints last year. His three year totals as a DT: 51 total tackles. 15 for loss with 9 sacks

Leonard Taylor's 3 year totals: 64 total tackles. 22.5 for loss with 6 sacks.
 
Dwinstitles said:
NFL scouts know what they are doing most of the time and if they make a mistake the guy is out the league or on a practice squad somewhere. I thought the previous year RJ Macintosh was better the G3
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Correct... If you're good enough to play, you play... Willis had known character issues but he wasn't the worst of the worst by any means...
The pros want players , plain and simple... As is stands lots of guys just don't have the talent required to excel at the next level... Happens every year...
 
CaliforniaCanes said:
Curious what some of the great minds on this board think on this subject.

Both were 5 star talents. Obviously GWIII had issues at UF but by all accounts seemed to be a good teammate at UM. I recall him being absolutely dominant. He changed the trajectory of multiple games. Seemed he was always involved and any moment he would change the game. I was shocked when he went undrafted in 2019.

Leonard Taylor has been a solid player for us, statistically not the game changer that many had hoped. I do believe he played better than his stats show. However he seemed to disappear for long stretches of games.

Strictly based on watching games, I would have thought GW would be a higher draft pick. Meanwhile LT has been in many mock drafts as a first rounder.

Would appreciate some input from you draft analysts.
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Age, Hand placement, & footwork. Leanord is still Very raw.
 
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Dwinstitles said:
NFL scouts know what they are doing most of the time and if they make a mistake the guy is out the league or on a practice squad somewhere. I thought the previous year RJ Macintosh was better the G3
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No they don’t. Lol. There’s only a handful of organizations w/ premium scouting, and that’s b/c they have premium upper management/leadership. The NFL is filled w/ a slew of who u know, & diversity quotas vs. knowledgeable ppl.
 
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LT going first round would do wonders for us going big game hunting for DTs
 
Rellyrell said:
No they don’t. Lol. There’s only a handful of organizations w/ premium scouting, and that’s b/c they have premium upper management/leadership. The NFL is filled w/ a slew of who u know, & diversity quotas vs. knowledgeable ppl.
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That too yes I agree but the talent gets there some people do their homework. Some don’t
 
Rellyrell said:
No they don’t. Lol. There’s only a handful of organizations w/ premium scouting, and that’s b/c they have premium upper management/leadership. The NFL is filled w/ a slew of who u know, & diversity quotas vs. knowledgeable ppl.
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Been watching the first round for like 30 years now going what the **** are these guys thinking

Once the combine became such a big thing you really started to see these dudes try to out maneuver eachother so they could brag about finding a hidden gem

ego maniacs do that

And they do it in college with 3 stars too

**** is everywhere
 
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