Leaving something on the table: position changes and unrealized upside

[LuCane]

I think we leave a ton of competitive advantage on the table. Wasted.

Let's put this simply: no matter how the NCAA rules change, we are unlikely to ever compete with the "bags" other programs provide. Even if we did, we'd very likely get hammered sooner and more harshly than what we've seen happen in the SEC, for example.

So how do we make up some of the competitive advantage? We need to evaluate and envision players earlier and maximize their athletic potential. This isn't new. In another era, Butch Davis made a name for himself off of a few of these "gambles." Nick Saban was famous for wanting to switch athletes to DB.

Our inherent advantage is geography. Geography should dictate relationships and our proximity should allow HS student-athletes and local coaches to visit us and vice versa more often. We should also get a closer look at athletes sooner than when they begin to "blow up" at national camps. Assuming we hire the correct skill, this should allow us to project players better.

A good example is Greg Rousseau, who some argued might be an OLB or even a TE here. While many did project him to DE, we can go back on the board and see the discussions around what his final position would be if/once he grew into his frame. He'll be closer to Calais Campbell than a 3-4 EDGE guy.

One of the most notorious positions where missed opportunities happen is at DB. You see late position switches in college and even, on occasion, into the NFL. Another OL, where kids switch from DL late and without prior experience, but have all the attributes. Let's acknowlege we need good position coaches to do this. Look at what Auburn did with Noah Igbinoghene's move from WR to CB.

For some time, I've felt we miss out on a lot of guys who "specialize" in HS, who later switch from DL to OL, who don't have a clear position in HS because they're still growing, or most of all get stuck at WR/RB when they could be elite DBs. I guess the first answer is "make sure we have better talent evaluators with foresight on staff." But, the latter part of that statement is critical. We need more calculated foresight. We need to project guys earlier and better. We need to be open to late bloomers.

We all know we need to begin to win to attract better recruits. This is one way to bridge the difference between us and the big $ schools.

 

[Canedog]

 

[RangerGranger]

Geeze, you had to use your noggin to write and read this.

Great read and great points!

A lil unrelated, but South Florida kids are more athletic, but kids out west seem to be more conditioned for Lashlee's offense. They come in already having the instincts, as opposed to some, not all, programs in South Florida.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

I think we leave a ton of competitive advantage on the table. Wasted.

Let's put this simply: no matter how the NCAA rules change, we are unlikely to ever compete with the "bags" other programs provide. Even if we did, we'd very likely get hammered sooner and more harshly than what we've seen happen in the SEC, for example.

So how do we make up some of the competitive advantage? We need to evaluate and envision players earlier and maximize their athletic potential. This isn't new. In another era, Butch Davis made a name for himself off of a few of these "gambles." Nick Saban was famous for wanting to switch athletes to DB.

Our inherent advantage is geography. Geography should dictate relationships and our proximity should allow HS student-athletes and local coaches to visit us and vice versa more often. We should also get a closer look at athletes sooner than when they begin to "blow up" at national camps. Assuming we hire the correct skill, this should allow us to project players better.

A good example is Greg Rousseau, who some argued might be an OLB or even a TE here. While many did project him to DE, we can go back on the board and see the discussions around what his final position would be if/once he grew into his frame. He'll be closer to Calais Campbell than a 3-4 EDGE guy.

One of the most notorious positions where missed opportunities happen is at DB. You see late position switches in college and even, on occasion, into the NFL. Another OL, where kids switch from DL late and without prior experience, but have all the attributes. Let's acknowlege we need good position coaches to do this. Look at what Auburn did with Noah Igbinoghene's move from WR to CB.

For some time, I've felt we miss out on a lot of guys who "specialize" in HS, who later switch from DL to OL, who don't have a clear position in HS because they're still growing, or most of all get stuck at WR/RB when they could be elite DBs. I guess the first answer is "make sure we have better talent evaluators with foresight on staff." But, the latter part of that statement is critical. We need more calculated foresight. We need to project guys earlier and better. We need to be open to late bloomers.

We all know we need to begin to win to attract better recruits. This is one way to bridge the difference between us and the big $ schools.

Read the recruiting forum. You will find an endless stream of complaining that the staff is doing just that- taking players playing offense in HS and moving them defense and vice versa; to the whiners it just means the staff can't properly recruit a "true" CB/DT/WR or whatever the position of need.

 

[LuCane]

Read the recruiting forum. You will find an endless stream of complaining that the staff is doing just that- taking players playing offense in HS and moving them defense and vice versa; to the whiners it just means the staff can't properly recruit a "true" CB/DT/WR or whatever the position of need.

I think part of that problem is rooted in recruiting players and switching their position into a **** system. They ultimately lack production and the position change looks horrible.

Another part of it has to be our ability to develop position-specific skills. Too often one of our players go into the draft with lack of production AND analysts/coaches/scouts commenting on the player being "raw."

Look, we've had a ****show for a long time and so it's never one thing. But, I sometimes see comments on the board complaining about "position switches." I find them strange. While you can't do this en masse, you see successful position changes at nearly every top ranking school.

 

[The Franchise]

I think we leave a ton of competitive advantage on the table. Wasted.

Let's put this simply: no matter how the NCAA rules change, we are unlikely to ever compete with the "bags" other programs provide. Even if we did, we'd very likely get hammered sooner and more harshly than what we've seen happen in the SEC, for example.

So how do we make up some of the competitive advantage? We need to evaluate and envision players earlier and maximize their athletic potential. This isn't new. In another era, Butch Davis made a name for himself off of a few of these "gambles." Nick Saban was famous for wanting to switch athletes to DB.

Our inherent advantage is geography. Geography should dictate relationships and our proximity should allow HS student-athletes and local coaches to visit us and vice versa more often. We should also get a closer look at athletes sooner than when they begin to "blow up" at national camps. Assuming we hire the correct skill, this should allow us to project players better.

A good example is Greg Rousseau, who some argued might be an OLB or even a TE here. While many did project him to DE, we can go back on the board and see the discussions around what his final position would be if/once he grew into his frame. He'll be closer to Calais Campbell than a 3-4 EDGE guy.

One of the most notorious positions where missed opportunities happen is at DB. You see late position switches in college and even, on occasion, into the NFL. Another OL, where kids switch from DL late and without prior experience, but have all the attributes. Let's acknowlege we need good position coaches to do this. Look at what Auburn did with Noah Igbinoghene's move from WR to CB.

For some time, I've felt we miss out on a lot of guys who "specialize" in HS, who later switch from DL to OL, who don't have a clear position in HS because they're still growing, or most of all get stuck at WR/RB when they could be elite DBs. I guess the first answer is "make sure we have better talent evaluators with foresight on staff." But, the latter part of that statement is critical. We need more calculated foresight. We need to project guys earlier and better. We need to be open to late bloomers.

We all know we need to begin to win to attract better recruits. This is one way to bridge the difference between us and the big $ schools.

Good thoughts, friend.

Now, let's get specific. Who are some of the guys that we should have switched after a couple years here or should have signed and moved immediately from WR to CB or OL to DL or vice versa?

 

[DMoney]

Good thoughts, friend.

Now, let's get specific. Who are some of the guys that we should have switched after a couple years here or should have signed and moved immediately from WR to CB or OL to DL or vice versa?

The guy that jumps to mind is Herb Waters. He hung around the fringes of the NFL as a CB but didn’t play it here. He could have helped.

 

[LuCane]

Good thoughts, friend.

Now, let's get specific. Who are some of the guys that we should have switched after a couple years here or should have signed and moved immediately from WR to CB or OL to DL or vice versa?

Some of this has been talked about, but here are some examples off the top of the head:

Ray Ray Armstrong spent a ton of time at Safety here and almost the entire board thought he was a LB.
Herb Waters should have been a CB.
Luther Robinson could have been a viable Guard.
I think Kendrick Norton would have been a better Guard than DT.
I think Deejay Dallas would have been a better Safety than RB, but this one seems to have worked out for him.
On the current team, he might be productive now in the new system, but I've always been curious about Wiggins as a DB. I realize that's not gonna happen now.

The post is as much about late bloomers (guys who haven't fully grown into their bodies yet) as it is about college-level position changes. The "position change" would ideally be from HS to college.

 

[Skip Cane]

I think we leave a ton of competitive advantage on the table. Wasted.

Let's put this simply: no matter how the NCAA rules change, we are unlikely to ever compete with the "bags" other programs provide. Even if we did, we'd very likely get hammered sooner and more harshly than what we've seen happen in the SEC, for example.

So how do we make up some of the competitive advantage? We need to evaluate and envision players earlier and maximize their athletic potential. This isn't new. In another era, Butch Davis made a name for himself off of a few of these "gambles." Nick Saban was famous for wanting to switch athletes to DB.

Our inherent advantage is geography. Geography should dictate relationships and our proximity should allow HS student-athletes and local coaches to visit us and vice versa more often. We should also get a closer look at athletes sooner than when they begin to "blow up" at national camps. Assuming we hire the correct skill, this should allow us to project players better.

A good example is Greg Rousseau, who some argued might be an OLB or even a TE here. While many did project him to DE, we can go back on the board and see the discussions around what his final position would be if/once he grew into his frame. He'll be closer to Calais Campbell than a 3-4 EDGE guy.

One of the most notorious positions where missed opportunities happen is at DB. You see late position switches in college and even, on occasion, into the NFL. Another OL, where kids switch from DL late and without prior experience, but have all the attributes. Let's acknowlege we need good position coaches to do this. Look at what Auburn did with Noah Igbinoghene's move from WR to CB.

For some time, I've felt we miss out on a lot of guys who "specialize" in HS, who later switch from DL to OL, who don't have a clear position in HS because they're still growing, or most of all get stuck at WR/RB when they could be elite DBs. I guess the first answer is "make sure we have better talent evaluators with foresight on staff." But, the latter part of that statement is critical. We need more calculated foresight. We need to project guys earlier and better. We need to be open to late bloomers.

We all know we need to begin to win to attract better recruits. This is one way to bridge the difference between us and the big $ schools.

We’ve identified plenty of kids early on. The problem is they have committed and bailed. We seem to make these great relationships only to be left at the alter these days. But I get what your saying.

 

[LuCane]

We’ve identified plenty of kids early on. The problem is they have committed and bailed. We seem to make these great relationships only to be left at the alter these days. But I get what your saying.

I'm curious because I don't follow recruiting here the way I used to some years ago. Who are some of the examples of players we identified early and blew up later?

 

[Skip Cane]

Sonny Michell was on campus starting in 9th grade. Visited a dozen times or more. We’ve lead the the country in decommitts the the last few years. Alot of those kids seem to be using Miami to get the offer they want. Some have been highly recruited and others late bloomers. We’ve been missing on a lot these past few years. I don’t get it. We literally lead the country in decommitts two or three years in a row.

 

[skyman]

If UM cant throw bags at players then they need to throw bags at coaches to draw the players. They want to play cheap so you get the results. If miami was on cutting edge coaching wise a decade ago they would have been better off. Being cheap and hiring corches off failed staffs with a learning curve for positions they never had doesnt sound like recipe for immediate success. The odds are obviously lower, I dont even think we look at odds only check book of what stays in pocket and not realize how the sport has evolved and exploded and the benefits of investing in success.

Also if you cant drop bags, find ways to invest in community. U ask 20 top kids who they know in their circle who went to UM and you will get blank stares, if miami was in the community where these players were and invested in some way that could go a long way to build real community ties. You can get creative and legitimately invest in some way. Even doing their own turkey give aways or job fairs or something would be some good will and maybe help down the. If it doesnt still you have helped the community. Just little things. There is no connection but UM doesnt invest in program or these communities but feel obligated to the top crop to attend with sells pitch of we wont invest in program or top coaching but you shoul dcome here to play in front on mom..

 

[Skip Cane]

It’s been damned if we do and damned if we don’t. We take really early commits only for a lot of them to bail or to be honest we bail. And the when we do give a late offer the kids ***** and moan about not receiving one earlier from the local school and go somewhere else. Especially, the cornerbacks.

 

[pacusmc]

I agree 100.
The problem with this is that we would have to do this somewhere else and not sofla.
The youth football scene down here is as corrupt as high school. Jones-Bell was a dude that was kept under a Blanket but somehow he had a commitable offer to bama while he was a 3 star unknown recruit. So we would have to have better relationship$ to some youth coaches so they can call us before the bag schools. We tried switching positions with Cj but he bailed. We tried with that Damarius Good kid but he’s at ucf cause they wanted him at running back. Tried with tutu but his “people” wanted him here as a qb so he left to Louisville cause they “promised him” qb.
We’re viewed as a team down here that is not in a position to make demands on where a kid should play and are judged on a narrower curve when those things don’t pan out. If saban grabs a kid down here and switches his position and he rides the pine and goes undrafted nobody gives a sht. But we have to make it work or the backlash is intense. If we we’re winning and scratching the playoffs we can tell a kid “hey come try this position I think it will work out for you”. But if a kid has the chance to play the position he’s comfortable with now and has the chance to go play that position at another school with the same or better record as we do then it’s gonna be a hard sell.

 

[cowboycane]

Ironically, Golden messed around with this a couple of times to almost universal mockery. Trying NJoku at linebacker for a couple of days comes to mind.

 

[skyman]

Some of this has been talked about, but here are some examples off the top of the head:

Ray Ray Armstrong spent a ton of time at Safety here and almost the entire board thought he was a LB.
Herb Waters should have been a CB.
Luther Robinson could have been a viable Guard.
I think Kendrick Norton would have been a better Guard than DT.
I think Deejay Dallas would have been a better Safety than RB, but this one seems to have worked out for him.
On the current team, he might be productive now in the new system, but I've always been curious about Wiggins as a DB. I realize that's not gonna happen now.

The post is as much about late bloomers (guys who haven't fully grown into their bodies yet) as it is about college-level position changes. The "position change" would ideally be from HS to college.

I remember at a preseason high school game chopping it up with a coach at dillard when Ford actually was greenlit to enroll (he got it a little late) and they were like he is talented at DT but his money position would be Oline. Always made me wonder as we just struggled with tackles could the best one on roster be playing defense. We will never know.

 

[Ethnicsands]

I think we leave a ton of competitive advantage on the table. Wasted.

Let's put this simply: no matter how the NCAA rules change, we are unlikely to ever compete with the "bags" other programs provide. Even if we did, we'd very likely get hammered sooner and more harshly than what we've seen happen in the SEC, for example.

So how do we make up some of the competitive advantage? We need to evaluate and envision players earlier and maximize their athletic potential. This isn't new. In another era, Butch Davis made a name for himself off of a few of these "gambles." Nick Saban was famous for wanting to switch athletes to DB.

Our inherent advantage is geography. Geography should dictate relationships and our proximity should allow HS student-athletes and local coaches to visit us and vice versa more often. We should also get a closer look at athletes sooner than when they begin to "blow up" at national camps. Assuming we hire the correct skill, this should allow us to project players better.

A good example is Greg Rousseau, who some argued might be an OLB or even a TE here. While many did project him to DE, we can go back on the board and see the discussions around what his final position would be if/once he grew into his frame. He'll be closer to Calais Campbell than a 3-4 EDGE guy.

One of the most notorious positions where missed opportunities happen is at DB. You see late position switches in college and even, on occasion, into the NFL. Another OL, where kids switch from DL late and without prior experience, but have all the attributes. Let's acknowlege we need good position coaches to do this. Look at what Auburn did with Noah Igbinoghene's move from WR to CB.

For some time, I've felt we miss out on a lot of guys who "specialize" in HS, who later switch from DL to OL, who don't have a clear position in HS because they're still growing, or most of all get stuck at WR/RB when they could be elite DBs. I guess the first answer is "make sure we have better talent evaluators with foresight on staff." But, the latter part of that statement is critical. We need more calculated foresight. We need to project guys earlier and better. We need to be open to late bloomers.

We all know we need to begin to win to attract better recruits. This is one way to bridge the difference between us and the big $ schools.

You had me at 'evaluators'!



That aside, I'd suggest that we have a unique advantage along with a very few other schools to take advantage of a new environment around players getting paid for their likenesses. Boosters are pay as you go - they don't help you build your asset value. Playing in a media center (Miami, LA) can help a kid increase his future value. That's sellable if we do some work around it. Otherwise it's just words. But it sounds like where we need to go to leverage our only potential advantage other than talent.

 

[mirvin88]

Sonny Michell was on campus starting in 9th grade. Visited a dozen times or more. We’ve lead the the country in decommitts the the last few years. Alot of those kids seem to be using Miami to get the offer they want. Some have been highly recruited and others late bloomers. We’ve been missing on a lot these past few years. I don’t get it. We literally lead the country in decommitts two or three years in a row.

Michel basically had his own dorm as a 9th grader. We still got left holding our ****s.

 

[mirvin88]

Two stand outs for me are Armstrong at LB and Chickillo at LB.

 

[scrantoncane]

No one mentioned Sam Shields? Made a nice NFL career for himself.