Judging Coaching Candidates - Coaching Trees

[gogeta4]

ITS A CRAP SHOOT.

Randy Shannon is from the Jimmy Johnson coaching tree....Not the Larry Coker tree...and guys like Wannstedt as well who have fumbled through their careers.

- I DO AGREE THOUGH THAT YOU HAVE TO SURROUND YOURSELF WITH GOOD COACHES...AND ATLEAST HAVE THAT "DATABASE" TO GO TO...WHEN U START LOSING ASSISTANTS....

If its Schiano im not mad....Dont think its Butch but i would LOVE to have him in the fold in some sort of way even if Schiano were to bring him as a dc.

The Memphis Guy...Im not all in yet...believe he has talent as a coach but i need to see more...

Think this hire will be key.....i dont want a guy that hasnt been a hc previously or..an coordinator in the nfl.

Dont think we need any more learning on the job.

 

[FullyERicht]

ITS A CRAP SHOOT.

Randy Shannon is from the Jimmy Johnson coaching tree....Not the Larry Coker tree...and guys like Wannstedt as well who have fumbled through their careers.

- I DO AGREE THOUGH THAT YOU HAVE TO SURROUND YOURSELF WITH GOOD COACHES...AND ATLEAST HAVE THAT "DATABASE" TO GO TO...WHEN U START LOSING ASSISTANTS....

If its Schiano im not mad....Dont think its Butch but i would LOVE to have him in the fold in some sort of way even if Schiano were to bring him as a dc.

The Memphis Guy...Im not all in yet...believe he has talent as a coach but i need to see more...

Think this hire will be key.....i dont want a guy that hasnt been a hc previously or..an coordinator in the nfl.

Dont think we need any more learning on the job.

Randy worked under Jimmy for like 1 or 2 seasons. The majority of his coaching tenure was under Larry Coker.

You are correct it is an odds game. But you move the odds in your favor when you eliminate coaches who have sub-par pedigrees. Yes wannstache stunk, but Butch and Tubberville both had excellent college careers. What other of JJs guys even attempted a college HC gig? Wannstedt only returned to college after he was fully cooked. Tubbs is trash now too, but he went undefeated at Auburn in 2004 during his prime.

So at worst that's a 66% chance of getting a HC that can go to a BCS level (playoffs now) bowl.

 

[DiegoCane]

Ok again people there is a large difference between asking us to hire Urban Meyer and getting Rich Rod or Leach.

Tom Herman now, for example, is a lot like what Urban Meyer was before UF hired him. Justin Fuente actually reminds me a lot of his former mentor, Gary Patterson as well.

But the list doesn't end there. Pete Carroll was a decent, fired NFL coach with an insanely great pedigree (Pagano). Harbaugh was a big time college winner who killed it in the pros at first but then flamed out (Kelly). Bill Snyder was a legendary program builder who came back for one more dance (Butch).

There are options out there for us, and we have to treat this hire like we did back in 1978. Invest and make a STATEMENT hire.

I'm with you in most of that post but Pagano is nothing like Carroll. Pagano does't have the charisma like Carroll. Don't understand the Pagano love here, to me he would be like hiring Chud

Smfh how much charisma does Saban have? His resume is eerily similar to Carroll's pre-USC. Was a DC for a top NFL team, and ran an ELITE defense. Has worked under multiple excellent coaches. The guy's resume is STELLAR for a college head coach gig. Nobody has Pete Carroll's charisma, and nobody needs it. Pete Carroll won bc he is phenomenal coach. Period end of story. Anything else is window dressing, best suited for women.

Chuck Pagano has been a DC for 2 years (UNC/Baltimore) in his whole coaching career, otherwise a career positions coach. Carroll was a DC for 10 years in the NFL, their resume's are not similar at all.

He doesn't bring the Xs and Os, he doesn't have the personality or name. I'm curious what he brings that is elite.

 

[FullyERicht]

Pagano had a better defense as a DC in Baltimore than Carroll ever had, and a better HC record as well. No, he doesn't have the twinkle in his eye that you clearly love.

If I recall, you are the one with the boner for Corch Coley, b/c he too has a cute look. Really odd way of choosing the type of coach you want.

 

[DiegoCane]

Pagano had a better defense as a DC in Baltimore than Carroll ever had, and a better HC record as well. No, he doesn't have the twinkle in his eye that you clearly love.

If I recall, you are the one with the boner for Corch Coley, b/c he too has a cute look. Really odd way of choosing the type of coach you want.

Again you have the wrong guy about Coley.

 

[supacane]

Oh Crapp. Tuberville maybe in the discussion as well. I'm sure he will call Miami.

 

[FullyERicht]

Pagano had a better defense as a DC in Baltimore than Carroll ever had, and a better HC record as well. No, he doesn't have the twinkle in his eye that you clearly love.

If I recall, you are the one with the boner for Corch Coley, b/c he too has a cute look. Really odd way of choosing the type of coach you want.

Again you have the wrong guy about Coley.

hmm maybe you were the Mario Supporter?

 

[DiegoCane]

Pagano had a better defense as a DC in Baltimore than Carroll ever had, and a better HC record as well. No, he doesn't have the twinkle in his eye that you clearly love.

If I recall, you are the one with the boner for Corch Coley, b/c he too has a cute look. Really odd way of choosing the type of coach you want.

Again you have the wrong guy about Coley.

hmm maybe you were the Mario Supporter?

Not Mario supporter at all. Only think I said about Coley last year is how much he was influenced by Golden? ie: slowing down the offense so much. So maybe you are thinking of that.

Probably only controversial candidate I'm a fan of is Mark Stoops.

 

[LuCane]

Pagano had a better defense as a DC in Baltimore than Carroll ever had, and a better HC record as well. No, he doesn't have the twinkle in his eye that you clearly love.

If I recall, you are the one with the boner for Corch Coley, b/c he too has a cute look. Really odd way of choosing the type of coach you want.

Again you have the wrong guy about Coley.

hmm maybe you were the Mario Supporter?

Not Mario supporter at all. Only think I said about Coley last year is how much he was influenced by Golden? ie: slowing down the offense so much. So maybe you are thinking of that.

Probably only controversial candidate I'm a fan of is Mark Stoops.

Is he that controversial? I'm on record as saying I'd interview him, too. Checking all these guys out doesn't mean we're advocating for any of them in particular. Right now, what I'd hope they're doing is marking people they should definitely not consider.

 

[DiegoCane]

Pagano had a better defense as a DC in Baltimore than Carroll ever had, and a better HC record as well. No, he doesn't have the twinkle in his eye that you clearly love.

If I recall, you are the one with the boner for Corch Coley, b/c he too has a cute look. Really odd way of choosing the type of coach you want.

Again you have the wrong guy about Coley.

hmm maybe you were the Mario Supporter?

Not Mario supporter at all. Only think I said about Coley last year is how much he was influenced by Golden? ie: slowing down the offense so much. So maybe you are thinking of that.

Probably only controversial candidate I'm a fan of is Mark Stoops.

Is he that controversial? I'm on record as saying I'd interview him, too.

I'm not sure. I think some think he should be doing more at UK but they don't realize where they were when he took over.

I know he did this as the DC at FSU:

2009: 108th
Stoops takes over as DC
2010: 42nd
2011: 4th
2012: 2nd

And I know he has hired 2 good young OCs at UK: Neal Brown and Shannon Dawson.

 

[OMG618]

If we're discussing "guys I'd interview", Josh Mcdaniels intrigues me. He obviously aces the pedigree exam but would his personality boom or bust in college, especially in South Florida? My quick take from a distance is I see a personality that may very well fit with younger athletes but not certain if it's with Miami athletes.

To reiterate, he's a person I'd speak with in the hopes he'd wow me as a Miami guy. If not, at least we gained the knowledge of who/what doesn't fit. This is a different place, it needs to be a personality fit too. It's what at the moment scares me about Fuente and Herman, but yet interests me about Morris.

And I have no interest in Chud or Pagano, zero.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Pete Carroll won that Orange Bowl his second season at USC with Carson Palmer at quarterback, the Heisman Trophy winner that season and good enough to be an NFL starter more than a decade later. That's not a bad foundation. Somebody else recruited Palmer, a boob named Paul Hackett. It's true that Carroll revamped the offense beginning in 2001 and aided Palmer's cause. But let's not pretend it wasn't supreme recruiting that boosted USC throughout those Carroll seasons. I followed it annually, as an alum. Once the ultra elite talent started to fall off, particularly at the skill positions, and suddenly guys like John David Booty were starting at quarterback, I warned the USC boards that there would be an inevitable lull. They didn't want to accept it. It was identical to Canes boards in the mid 2000s. Somehow we didn't want to believe that championships wouldn't be available once the Andre Johnson types were replaced by nice players but hardly elite.

I'll default to my long held knowledge that pass defense excellence is vital in identifying the national champion. The winner is invariably in the Top 10 nationally in yards allowed per pass attempt. With most of these offensive minded coaches, I don't trust them to care about that category at all. They might give lip service to it, but mostly they are convinced their offensive brilliance will allow a never ending string of Baylor type victories.

Pete Carroll, Nick Saban and Urban Meyer have regularly been near the top in that pass defense category. Ohio State is once again within the Top 10, like last year. Alabama is more legit than in the two most recent seasons largely because its pass defense is finally special again. Michigan under Harbaugh is leading the nation, allowing a fantastic 4.7 yards per attempt. Not exactly surprising. He knows what he is doing and prioritizes it immediately. That pass defense stat correlates with overall defensive intensity and smarts. Carroll was absurdly robbed of a national title berth in 2008 despite USC leading the nation in pass defense by wide margin. The ignorant goofs who like cupcake offense preferred Oklahoma above USC in that title game matchup in 2008, all but handing Meyer a title against defensive fraud Oklahoma, despite Tebow having a relatively poor game.

I think I've mentioned previously that I became aware of the significance of pass defense during that famous Miami upset of Nebraska in the 1983 season Orange Bowl. It's right there on the tape, the NBC announcers running a graphic that the Canes were first in the nation in yards allowed per pass attempt. That type of stat was never mentioned in those days. Heck, it's not mentioned today, except occasionally in betting circles.

A defensive guy provides more margin for error, if he is truly special. Granted, it's easier to find a shotgun spread pinball offensive guy these days. That's what the public is fascinated with, and what the related coaching lists invariably are flooded with. That obsession with offense is what allows the Meyers and Sabans to own so many clear path opportunities. They wouldn't win titles nearly as regularly if the nation as a block were still defensive minded like decades ago. Instead of 20 legitimately tough and intense defenses every season there are only half that many, if not fewer.

I still get a chuckle every time I envision Nick Saban's reaction to Texas successfully executing a couple of bubble screens for big gains in the 4th quarter of that BCS title game maybe 5 years ago. I knew exactly what he was thinking, that those were garbage plays that his defense was ultra prepared for and should obliterate in the backfield, at the exchange point. The Big 12 was abusing bubble screens in that era and never seemed to have any clue that the SEC powers would wipe them out on the ultimate stage. Alabama did have them defensed well but Texas managed to slip through tiny openings a couple of times. Saban was tomato red and absolutely livid.

That's the type of coach I want for the Canes, somebody who understands the need and capability to attack and dismantle those finesse plays, instead of sitting back and accepting the gains as a normal facet of modern day college football. Once you wipe out those plays you establish the physical pecking order and everything wonderful flows out of it.

I don't pretend to have a ready list of who those defensive guys might be. The name Winston Moss did intrigue me, if he coaches the same way he played. Jimmy Johnson was a defensive guy who slowed Oklahoma and Nebraska far below their norms with inferior talent while at Oklahoma State. The more things are said to change, the more they stay the same.

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

I don't pretend to have a ready list of who those defensive guys might be.

Kirby Smart.

 

[Canesfan1899]

Don't downplay the importance of recruiting. Look at guys like Saban, Meyer, Pete Caroll. These 3 guys have dominated CFB in the last 12 years. 8 championships between them. Guess what, they were all tremendous recruiters.

You are completely and utterly clueless.

They are great recruiters b/c they won a billion games.

Pete Carroll played in a BCS game in his SECOND SEASON at USC. That wasn't from him recruiting, it was from his COACHING. Then once it was obvious that the dude was a beast, kids came in droves. That's how it works at major brand programs.

Urban won the title in his SECOND SEASON at UF, and was undefeated HIS FIRST SEASON at OSU. That's not recruiting. That's coaching.

Saban played in the BCS in his second season at Bama. Again, not recruiting. Dude is a grumpy ******* who hates to recruit, but b/c he is such a **** good coach kids line up to play for him.

Miami recruits itself when it has a good coach. I mean after the last decade how the FVCK have you not learned how things work???

I also believe Miami kids would be lining up to play in that offense. We can keep them home instead of losing them to O$U.

 

[Canesfan1899]

Again you have the wrong guy about Coley.

hmm maybe you were the Mario Supporter?

Not Mario supporter at all. Only think I said about Coley last year is how much he was influenced by Golden? ie: slowing down the offense so much. So maybe you are thinking of that.

Probably only controversial candidate I'm a fan of is Mark Stoops.

Is he that controversial? I'm on record as saying I'd interview him, too.

I'm not sure. I think some think he should be doing more at UK but they don't realize where they were when he took over.

I know he did this as the DC at FSU:

2009: 108th
Stoops takes over as DC
2010: 42nd
2011: 4th
2012: 2nd

And I know he has hired 2 good young OCs at UK: Neal Brown and Shannon Dawson.

Mark Stoops would be in my top 5. I would not be the least bit upset if he was our hire. The Stoops family seem like College football lifers. He hasn't won big at Kentucky, but it's ******* Kentucky.

 

[the storm]

27-47 as HC. Shouldn't even be mentioned.

Sounds like you might like this guy:

Mario Cristobal, Alabama offensive line coach, 45: He’s spent the past three seasons working under Nick Saban and was named the National Recruiter of the Year this winter after helping the Tide reel in, among others, Calvin Ridley, Daron Payne and Minkah Fitzpatrick, three of the nation’s top freshmen. No one is any more plugged into South Florida in college coaching than Cristobal, a Miami native and former standout O-lineman at UM. Cristobal has head coaching experience having spent six seasons transforming FIU from by far the worst program in Division I into one that went to two bowl games. He also has a good eye for coaching talent, having hired Scott Satterfield, Geoff Collins and Todd Orlando -- three of the more respected up-and-comers in the college game -- and played a key role in helping Greg Schiano flip Rutgers from laughing stock status.

Cristobal’s teams were fast and physical. They beat eventual Co-BIG EAST Champion Louisville and then C-USA power UCF, two programs with much greater resources than FIU. At FIU, things went bad in a hurry in his final season but a lot of that stemmed from the dysfunctional administration. Some may knock that Cristobal doesn’t have coordinator experience on his resume. Of course, neither did Jim Harbaugh, Urban Meyer or Art Briles, and things have worked out fine with those guys.

 

[DontCareJustWin]

BBB

 

[UMJer026]

Mario Cristobal scares the **** out of me. I see the best in what Shannon had to offer (strong Miami ties, purported great recruiter) + Golden's resume (strong presence, moderate success at a **** program). Granted, he has had one **** of an apprenticeship, under the dark lord Saban, which neither of our two guys had.

But I agree with Lu--from a football perspective, what is he good at? We don't know, and I don't want to gamble on this hire. He hasn't shown he's an innovator or a great technical mind (Urban), and we don't know that he's a great manager (Saban) either. I'm not expecting someone at the level of those two, but give me someone with either of their traits and a proven track record.