Judging Coaching Candidates - Coaching Trees

[LuCane]

One of the key things I'd hope our decision makers look into is the coaching tree analysis. From what coaching tree is the candidate? Does the candidate have a history of selecting top assistants? Is there any evidence of great coaching talent evaluation?

As I've said in other threads, adaptability is the key to continuous success in modern anything (especially football), so you need to be able to build and re-stock your coaching talent. Most people will respond to this with "Butch." And, you're not wrong.

If this search somehow goes away from Butch Davis, please let this be a key part of the search. If you look at our recent failures in leadership, this is one of the common denominators. Neither Coach Coker, Coach Shannon and now Al Golden showed a consistently keen eye for coaching talent.

 

[Brometheus]

Very good point Lu. I really hope everyone here is open to a few names and doesn't just blurt out BUTCH BUTCH BUTCH. Although he would be my top candidate, I wanna see who else is out there and whether we have a shot at landing them.Remember, lets keep a positive attitude.


Some of us are gonna disagree with eachother, but lets not forget we took a step in the right direction today.

 

[Loafers]

One of the key things I'd hope our decision makers look into is the coaching tree analysis. From what coaching tree is the candidate? Does the candidate have a history of selecting top assistants? Is there any evidence of great coaching talent evaluation?

As I've said in other threads, adaptability is the key to continuous success in modern anything (especially football), so you need to be able to build and re-stock your coaching talent. Most people will respond to this with "Butch." And, you're not wrong.

If this search somehow goes away from Butch Davis, please let this be a key part of the search. If you look at our recent failures in leadership, this is one of the common denominators. Neither Coach Coker, Coach Shannon and now Al Golden showed a consistently keen eye for coaching talent.

Since it became more and more evident that Golden wasnt going to make it, I researched to see if there was any predictive measure of coaching success and I have not found any. I tried to see if anyone else had done any research and again I came up empty. This might be a good paper for someone to do. I dont have the time. I like your way of thinking, but it is difficult to know who will actually come with the new coach unless he has coached at a number of locations and said assts have always followed.

 

[FullyERicht]

You can flip this the other way as well:

Who did this guy cut his teeth under? Most great coaches learned from other great coaches.

Herman from Urban. Fuente from Patterson. Pagano from Harbaugh and Butch.

Golden and Shannon learned under Groh and Coker.

 

[LuCane]

You can flip this the other way as well:

Who did this guy cut his teeth under? Most great coaches learned from other great coaches.

Herman from Urban. Fuente from Patterson. Pagano from Harbaugh and Butch.

Golden and Shannon learned under Groh and Coker.

I mentioned it. "From what coaching tree is the candidate." It's very, very important to me. It's what has intrigued me the most about Herman. Especially what his units/areas looked like before and after. It's actually what made me consider Mark Stoops a future rising star. I'm a big fan of Safeties/DBs (it's what I played and best understand) and former players had incredible things to say about how he helped them with little things.

 

[fivecent]

Sounds like you might like this guy:

Mario Cristobal, Alabama offensive line coach, 45: He’s spent the past three seasons working under Nick Saban and was named the National Recruiter of the Year this winter after helping the Tide reel in, among others, Calvin Ridley, Daron Payne and Minkah Fitzpatrick, three of the nation’s top freshmen. No one is any more plugged into South Florida in college coaching than Cristobal, a Miami native and former standout O-lineman at UM. Cristobal has head coaching experience having spent six seasons transforming FIU from by far the worst program in Division I into one that went to two bowl games. He also has a good eye for coaching talent, having hired Scott Satterfield, Geoff Collins and Todd Orlando -- three of the more respected up-and-comers in the college game -- and played a key role in helping Greg Schiano flip Rutgers from laughing stock status.

Cristobal’s teams were fast and physical. They beat eventual Co-BIG EAST Champion Louisville and then C-USA power UCF, two programs with much greater resources than FIU. At FIU, things went bad in a hurry in his final season but a lot of that stemmed from the dysfunctional administration. Some may knock that Cristobal doesn’t have coordinator experience on his resume. Of course, neither did Jim Harbaugh, Urban Meyer or Art Briles, and things have worked out fine with those guys.

 

[Loafers]

Just for fun I googled the top coaching candidates every year since 2008 and it is a total crap shoot. Guys who everyone claimed to be the best hire, flamed out fast. Weiss, Gil, muschamp, Kiffin, rich rod,stoops etc. (golden was rated the 14th best available coach when we hired him based on the article I found, I hope this isnt an indication of where we will be looking on this list this time) Meanwhile, guys that people were lukewarm on performed better.

 

[Gatorhater]

One of the key things I'd hope our decision makers look into is the coaching tree analysis. From what coaching tree is the candidate? Does the candidate have a history of selecting top assistants? Is there any evidence of great coaching talent evaluation?

As I've said in other threads, adaptability is the key to continuous success in modern anything (especially football), so you need to be able to build and re-stock your coaching talent. Most people will respond to this with "Butch." And, you're not wrong.

If this search somehow goes away from Butch Davis, please let this be a key part of the search. If you look at our recent failures in leadership, this is one of the common denominators. Neither Coach Coker, Coach Shannon and now Al Golden showed a consistently keen eye for coaching talent.

Dead on Lu. JJ and Butch were top notch finding coaching talent. So many of their ended up NFL HCs.

 

[NVA CANE]

I never realized how important the coaching tree was in terms of making a hire. Funny how Golden and Mike London get the same exact results and come from the same tree. Not saying that's a hard rule, but I'd rather get a coach that's learned under a great coach and has proven himself than someone that's learned under a mediocre coach and seemingly proven himself.

Its why I like Fuente and Herman. Both I believe know what it takes to be successful they've coached under great coaches and both are proving themselves with every week that goes by. I don't

 

[Loafers]

You can flip this the other way as well:

Who did this guy cut his teeth under? Most great coaches learned from other great coaches.

Herman from Urban. Fuente from Patterson. Pagano from Harbaugh and Butch.

Golden and Shannon learned under Groh and Coker.

I mentioned it. "From what coaching tree is the candidate." It's very, very important to me. It's what has intrigued me the most about Herman. Especially what his units/areas looked like before and after. It's actually what made me consider Mark Stoops a future rising star. I'm a big fan of Safeties/DBs (it's what I played and best understand) and former players had incredible things to say about how he helped them with little things.

Except it isnt a sure thing. Just as much you could get Jimbo or D'antonio from the Saban tree, you could get Muschump or Derek Dooley. I get its something to use to limit candidates but not sure its predictive.

 

[LuCane]

Sounds like you might like this guy:

Mario Cristobal, Alabama offensive line coach, 45: He’s spent the past three seasons working under Nick Saban and was named the National Recruiter of the Year this winter after helping the Tide reel in, among others, Calvin Ridley, Daron Payne and Minkah Fitzpatrick, three of the nation’s top freshmen. No one is any more plugged into South Florida in college coaching than Cristobal, a Miami native and former standout O-lineman at UM. Cristobal has head coaching experience having spent six seasons transforming FIU from by far the worst program in Division I into one that went to two bowl games. He also has a good eye for coaching talent, having hired Scott Satterfield, Geoff Collins and Todd Orlando -- three of the more respected up-and-comers in the college game -- and played a key role in helping Greg Schiano flip Rutgers from laughing stock status.

Cristobal’s teams were fast and physical. They beat eventual Co-BIG EAST Champion Louisville and then C-USA power UCF, two programs with much greater resources than FIU. At FIU, things went bad in a hurry in his final season but a lot of that stemmed from the dysfunctional administration. Some may knock that Cristobal doesn’t have coordinator experience on his resume. Of course, neither did Jim Harbaugh, Urban Meyer or Art Briles, and things have worked out fine with those guys.

He's never been a Coordinator. In today's highly technical and situational game - again, especially where you have to win an ACC championship, then two playoff games - my theory is you need an elite skill. Is his talent evaluation, like Butch's? Is it Xs and Os? What is it, exactly?

I'm open to discuss anything.

 

[LuCane]

You can flip this the other way as well:

Who did this guy cut his teeth under? Most great coaches learned from other great coaches.

Herman from Urban. Fuente from Patterson. Pagano from Harbaugh and Butch.

Golden and Shannon learned under Groh and Coker.

I mentioned it. "From what coaching tree is the candidate." It's very, very important to me. It's what has intrigued me the most about Herman. Especially what his units/areas looked like before and after. It's actually what made me consider Mark Stoops a future rising star. I'm a big fan of Safeties/DBs (it's what I played and best understand) and former players had incredible things to say about how he helped them with little things.

Except it isnt a sure thing. Just as much you could get Jimbo or D'antonio from the Saban tree, you could get Muschump or Derek Dooley. I get its something to use to limit candidates but not sure its predictive.

I mentioned it as *a* singular important factor to consider. Not the only, for sure. I concede there's so, so much to look into. I'm hoping guys like Medley and some others jump in here and we can use this thread to reasonably discuss many of these factors.

We can still **** this up.

 

[Loafers]

College Football's Top Coaching Trees | AthlonSports.com

I found this. Pretty interesting and might be a good place to look for vetting a potential candidate.

 

[DJWilliams55]

Lu, you recently said you heard for the first time from someone in power that Butch might be a viable choice. I know Peter said no, but did you recheck with your source?

 

[AUcane]

I'll take it a step further - If you're looking at other lower level HBCs, look at who THEY hire and where THOSE coaching trees are from.

Case in point - look at Stoops' OC at Kentucky. Spread guy that coached under Holgerson, Mumme, et al. Solid credentials and Stoops picked him up.

 

[Lingo]

Lu what are thoughts on A Jeremy Pruitt who would come from Saban's coachings tree as a DB coach, as well as spending the year with fisher as a DC and now with Mark Richt being the DC. He UGA's defense has been improving compared to what it was before he got there and he's been adding talent to that crop as well, we all know at FSU he had the talent for a top defense. Players seem to gravitate towards him as a person and even some people have said he changed the culture with Georgia's defensive atmosphere where it had a country club feeling to the players working hard but having fun playing for him and it seems like the places he does go he runs an attacking style defense that tries to dictate the game.

 

[FullyERicht]

I think obviously there is a degree of luck involved. Crapshoot if you will. But I think more of it is similar to analyzing companies for stock investment.

The best way to know what works, is to find shared characteristics of your past coaches. You then can eliminate candidates that don't share those common characteristics.

For example, none of our 4 great coaches came from the college coordinator ranks. All either were college HCs, or NFL coordinators. So right off the bat, in a coaching search you eliminate every single coordinator.

Jimmy, Howard, and Butch all coached under LEGENDARY, Hall of Fame level guys: (Chuck Fairbanks, Don Shula, and Jimmy Johnson) respectively.

They all (except Dennis) were championship winners as coaches or players.

Find a guy who fits all that, and my guess is you have yourself a winner.

Tom Herman fits the bill completely, for example. Pagano has a ton of the qualifications. Butch obviously does. Fuente comes close.

Of course nobody doubts that Chip Kelly would succeed bc he already proved he can. Trying to find the "next" chip kelly is where the risk comes into play. If you want to make a safe hire, chose a PROVEN winning elite coach, or hire a guy who fits the above qualifications.

 

[LuCane]

Lu, you recently said you heard for the first time from someone in power that Butch might be a viable choice. I know Peter said no, but did you recheck with your source?

Haven't heard more than what I mentioned a couple weeks back.

My excitement from early this afternoon is already turning into concern about the next hire.

 

[FullyERicht]

Lu what are thoughts on A Jeremy Pruitt who would come from Saban's coachings tree as a DB coach, as well as spending the year with fisher as a DC and now with Mark Richt being the DC. He UGA's defense has been improving compared to what it was before he got there and he's been adding talent to that crop as well, we all know at FSU he had the talent for a top defense. Players seem to gravitate towards him as a person and even some people have said he changed the culture with Georgia's defensive atmosphere where it had a country club feeling to the players working hard but having fun playing for him and it seems like the places he does go he runs an attacking style defense that tries to dictate the game.

Please name the last time a college coordinator won here. I'll wait........forever......b/c it doesn't work here and never will.

 

[TriStarCane]

I want them to show a pattern of winning. Winning in their division. Winning in conference. Winning OOC. If we go after a Non P5 guy, how has does he perform against higher comp? We need someone that wins and knows how to use his relative talent to win.