Judging Coaching Candidates - Coaching Trees

[weownfsu]

"Recruiting" ability is pretty far down on the list of important attributes for a HC. Recruiting success as a Hc is a function of a lot of more important things.

 

[CaneInTheBrain]

Agree Lu. Pedigree is important and should be a variable that's evaluated and considered. The problem I see is that the person who may be leading the charge, Blake James, is flawed which will poison the process and the decision. What's his pedigree? UMaine? When has he proven to be capable of making the right hire? Never.

Could he make the right decision? Possibly, but the odds are lower I would say.

I would be really surprised if Blake James makes the decision.

please expound on this

Blake James is not making the decision.

Genius, thanks for adding so much to the discussion

Maybe you're new. Last time, a few guys from the BOT made the decision who to hire (DiMare, Kosar, I think). It'll probably be the same guys doing the hiring again this go around.

For some reason, Miami doesn't believe in hiring knowledgable AD's and letting them hire/fire coaches. As long as they hire someone good, I couldn't care less what their process is.

 

[NYCane89]

Ok again people there is a large difference between asking us to hire Urban Meyer and getting Rich Rod or Leach.

Tom Herman now, for example, is a lot like what Urban Meyer was before UF hired him. Justin Fuente actually reminds me a lot of his former mentor, Gary Patterson as well.

But the list doesn't end there. Pete Carroll was a decent, fired NFL coach with an insanely great pedigree (Pagano). Harbaugh was a big time college winner who killed it in the pros at first but then flamed out (Kelly). Bill Snyder was a legendary program builder who came back for one more dance (Butch).

There are options out there for us, and we have to treat this hire like we did back in 1978. Invest and make a STATEMENT hire.

Urban Meyer was 22-2 at Utah in 2 seasons BEFORE he was hired by Florida. Also had HC experience of 3 years prior to that. 5 years total.

Tom Herman....ehhh... 7-0 in a little more than 1/2 season. Not exactly the same, don't you think?

 

[supacane]

Have there been good game day coaches who were bad at recruiting? Not sure. There have been great recruiters who are terrible at coaching. I don't want that. We will always get players at Miami, no matter what. We need player development. Butch is the guy.

But if someone else can bring a great staff with him, that can do. The Admin need to put up the money. We will not get a good coach unless they do. No one is going to put their reputation on the line if they don't think they will have the right staff and money to pay them. Golden came with a bunch of nobodies and was lap up by the school.

Don't make the same mistake. Honestly, I would pick either Pagano or Chudzinski. I like guys who have coached against the best.

 

[BigCaneAl]

Sounds like you might like this guy:

Mario Cristobal, Alabama offensive line coach, 45: He’s spent the past three seasons working under Nick Saban and was named the National Recruiter of the Year this winter after helping the Tide reel in, among others, Calvin Ridley, Daron Payne and Minkah Fitzpatrick, three of the nation’s top freshmen. No one is any more plugged into South Florida in college coaching than Cristobal, a Miami native and former standout O-lineman at UM. Cristobal has head coaching experience having spent six seasons transforming FIU from by far the worst program in Division I into one that went to two bowl games. He also has a good eye for coaching talent, having hired Scott Satterfield, Geoff Collins and Todd Orlando -- three of the more respected up-and-comers in the college game -- and played a key role in helping Greg Schiano flip Rutgers from laughing stock status.

Cristobal’s teams were fast and physical. They beat eventual Co-BIG EAST Champion Louisville and then C-USA power UCF, two programs with much greater resources than FIU. At FIU, things went bad in a hurry in his final season but a lot of that stemmed from the dysfunctional administration. Some may knock that Cristobal doesn’t have coordinator experience on his resume. Of course, neither did Jim Harbaugh, Urban Meyer or Art Briles, and things have worked out fine with those guys.

He's never been a Coordinator. In today's highly technical and situational game - again, especially where you have to win an ACC championship, then two playoff games - my theory is you need an elite skill. Is his talent evaluation, like Butch's? Is it Xs and Os? What is it, exactly?

I'm open to discuss anything.

Maybe he's a one off, but how could you pick Urban's elite skill? Was never a coordinator either.

I'm not a big Mario fan, but he certainly has an eye for coaching talent. Would really like him under a guy like Chud or Pagano. I fully expect us to go for "fit" as an over reaction to how poorly Golden fit down here. That will likely eliminate a guy like Herman who's from the west coast and has never coached in Fl.

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

The ability to surround yourself with quality coaches and staff is no doubt a key cog in the success of any coaching regime.

I'll say this though, in addition to that it cannot be overstated the importance of having a coach with ******* balls/confidence/cojones/aggressiveness or however you want to term it.

We need a guy who portrays those traits...that's what Miami has always been about. A ****y son of ***** that backs down to no one and EXPECTS to win every game by 14 points regardless of opponent.

The more I think about it....I really think Jackson is the perfect candidate for this job given the fact we're too cheap and short sighted to ever go after an ultra big name like Chip Kelly.

 

[Torocane]

I want them to show a pattern of winning. Winning in their division. Winning in conference. Winning OOC. If we go after a Non P5 guy, how has does he perform against higher comp? We need someone that wins and knows how to use his relative talent to win.

Agree. Learn from the Goldrn hire and look for actual accomplishment.

 

[supacane]

Sounds like you might like this guy:

Mario Cristobal, Alabama offensive line coach, 45: He’s spent the past three seasons working under Nick Saban and was named the National Recruiter of the Year this winter after helping the Tide reel in, among others, Calvin Ridley, Daron Payne and Minkah Fitzpatrick, three of the nation’s top freshmen. No one is any more plugged into South Florida in college coaching than Cristobal, a Miami native and former standout O-lineman at UM. Cristobal has head coaching experience having spent six seasons transforming FIU from by far the worst program in Division I into one that went to two bowl games. He also has a good eye for coaching talent, having hired Scott Satterfield, Geoff Collins and Todd Orlando -- three of the more respected up-and-comers in the college game -- and played a key role in helping Greg Schiano flip Rutgers from laughing stock status.

Cristobal’s teams were fast and physical. They beat eventual Co-BIG EAST Champion Louisville and then C-USA power UCF, two programs with much greater resources than FIU. At FIU, things went bad in a hurry in his final season but a lot of that stemmed from the dysfunctional administration. Some may knock that Cristobal doesn’t have coordinator experience on his resume. Of course, neither did Jim Harbaugh, Urban Meyer or Art Briles, and things have worked out fine with those guys.

He's never been a Coordinator. In today's highly technical and situational game - again, especially where you have to win an ACC championship, then two playoff games - my theory is you need an elite skill. Is his talent evaluation, like Butch's? Is it Xs and Os? What is it, exactly?

I'm open to discuss anything.

Maybe he's a one off, but how could you pick Urban's elite skill? Was never a coordinator either.

I'm not a big Mario fan, but he certainly has an eye for coaching talent. Would really like him under a guy like Chud or Pagano. I fully expect us to go for "fit" as an over reaction to how poorly Golden fit down here. That will likely eliminate a guy like Herman who's from the west coast and has never coached in Fl.

Herman is a risk too far IMO. He is way too raw. Not to mention he is complaining about fans not showing up in Houston. I don't want another whining coach like Golden.

 

[stormsurge]

Nick Saban has complained about fans not showing up in Alabama

Herman has the UH QB playing at a great level and he seems to be recruiting well in an urban area very much like Miami

 

[LuCane]

Sounds like you might like this guy:

Mario Cristobal, Alabama offensive line coach, 45: He’s spent the past three seasons working under Nick Saban and was named the National Recruiter of the Year this winter after helping the Tide reel in, among others, Calvin Ridley, Daron Payne and Minkah Fitzpatrick, three of the nation’s top freshmen. No one is any more plugged into South Florida in college coaching than Cristobal, a Miami native and former standout O-lineman at UM. Cristobal has head coaching experience having spent six seasons transforming FIU from by far the worst program in Division I into one that went to two bowl games. He also has a good eye for coaching talent, having hired Scott Satterfield, Geoff Collins and Todd Orlando -- three of the more respected up-and-comers in the college game -- and played a key role in helping Greg Schiano flip Rutgers from laughing stock status.

Cristobal’s teams were fast and physical. They beat eventual Co-BIG EAST Champion Louisville and then C-USA power UCF, two programs with much greater resources than FIU. At FIU, things went bad in a hurry in his final season but a lot of that stemmed from the dysfunctional administration. Some may knock that Cristobal doesn’t have coordinator experience on his resume. Of course, neither did Jim Harbaugh, Urban Meyer or Art Briles, and things have worked out fine with those guys.

He's never been a Coordinator. In today's highly technical and situational game - again, especially where you have to win an ACC championship, then two playoff games - my theory is you need an elite skill. Is his talent evaluation, like Butch's? Is it Xs and Os? What is it, exactly?

I'm open to discuss anything.

Maybe he's a one off, but how could you pick Urban's elite skill? Was never a coordinator either.

I'm not a big Mario fan, but he certainly has an eye for coaching talent. Would really like him under a guy like Chud or Pagano. I fully expect us to go for "fit" as an over reaction to how poorly Golden fit down here. That will likely eliminate a guy like Herman who's from the west coast and has never coached in Fl.

I think Urban has an elite eye for talent - at least for what he wants to do with his system(s). Plus, he seems to hire awesome coaches. But, good mention of an example of a guy who skipped the coordinator step. I think he would have made a fine coordinator, though. Not sure about Mario. Maybe he could've. Don't know much (if anything) about his Xs and Os views. I know more about Urban's.

 

[Torocane]

I think obviously there is a degree of luck involved. Crapshoot if you will. But I think more of it is similar to analyzing companies for stock investment.

The best way to know what works, is to find shared characteristics of your past coaches. You then can eliminate candidates that don't share those common characteristics.

For example, none of our 4 great coaches came from the college coordinator ranks. All either were college HCs, or NFL coordinators. So right off the bat, in a coaching search you eliminate every single coordinator.

Jimmy, Howard, and Butch all coached under LEGENDARY, Hall of Fame level guys: (Chuck Fairbanks, Don Shula, and Jimmy Johnson) respectively.

They all (except Dennis) were championship winners as coaches or players.

Find a guy who fits all that, and my guess is you have yourself a winner.

Tom Herman fits the bill completely, for example. Pagano has a ton of the qualifications. Butch obviously does. Fuente comes close.

Of course nobody doubts that Chip Kelly would succeed bc he already proved he can. Trying to find the "next" chip kelly is where the risk comes into play. If you want to make a safe hire, chose a PROVEN winning elite coach, or hire a guy who fits the above qualifications.

My only concern with Herman is the small sample size. He's only been a head coach for all of 7 games. You can't really judge anything in such a short time. How's he going to recruit year after year? No one really knows. Recruiting is the lifeblood of any program.

Thats not to say that he won't be successful. At this juncture we just can't afford to roll the dice. We need someone proven.

I think it's a fair concern.
Sample size is obviously small. But he may be worth the risk given the trajectory his carrer is taking and overall background.

 

[wushah]

Don't downplay the importance of recruiting. Look at guys like Saban, Meyer, Pete Caroll. These 3 guys have dominated CFB in the last 12 years. 8 championships between them. Guess what, they were all tremendous recruiters.

You are completely and utterly clueless.

They are great recruiters b/c they won a billion games.

Pete Carroll played in a BCS game in his SECOND SEASON at USC. That wasn't from him recruiting, it was from his COACHING. Then once it was obvious that the dude was a beast, kids came in droves. That's how it works at major brand programs.

Urban won the title in his SECOND SEASON at UF, and was undefeated HIS FIRST SEASON at OSU. That's not recruiting. That's coaching.

Saban played in the BCS in his second season at Bama. Again, not recruiting. Dude is a grumpy ******* who hates to recruit, but b/c he is such a **** good coach kids line up to play for him.

Miami recruits itself when it has a good coach. I mean after the last decade how the FVCK have you not learned how things work???

I agree with a lot of this but not all of it.

Carroll did not play for a NC in his 2nd season at USC. It was his 3rd (Pete Carroll Coaching Record | College Football at Sports-Reference.com) Additionally, he was a tireless and competitive recruiter. The guy treated 5* players like football games. He also had an incredibly strong presence in the hood throughout SoCal that gave him more of an edge (Carroll is a life force at street level - latimes). He didn't just win games. The guy did way more than that. I'd say Urban is a lot like him from everything I've ever read and from people that I know who know him.

Butch had an extraordinary eye for talent. He didn't always get the 5* guys but rather guys right for his system. He started to get them well before he was successful and won a ton of games. He's probably more unique in that sense.

I think Saban probably best fits what you wrote. Tremendous coach who has recruits flock to him. Factor in the unending support of the Bama Admin, and it's an easy recipe for success.

So, I think you're right but just not entirely right.

 

[DiegoCane]

Ok again people there is a large difference between asking us to hire Urban Meyer and getting Rich Rod or Leach.

Tom Herman now, for example, is a lot like what Urban Meyer was before UF hired him. Justin Fuente actually reminds me a lot of his former mentor, Gary Patterson as well.

But the list doesn't end there. Pete Carroll was a decent, fired NFL coach with an insanely great pedigree (Pagano). Harbaugh was a big time college winner who killed it in the pros at first but then flamed out (Kelly). Bill Snyder was a legendary program builder who came back for one more dance (Butch).

There are options out there for us, and we have to treat this hire like we did back in 1978. Invest and make a STATEMENT hire.

I'm with you in most of that post but Pagano is nothing like Carroll. Pagano does't have the charisma like Carroll. Don't understand the Pagano love here, to me he would be like hiring Chud

 

[Gables Cane]

Sounds like you might like this guy:

Mario Cristobal, Alabama offensive line coach, 45: He’s spent the past three seasons working under Nick Saban and was named the National Recruiter of the Year this winter after helping the Tide reel in, among others, Calvin Ridley, Daron Payne and Minkah Fitzpatrick, three of the nation’s top freshmen. No one is any more plugged into South Florida in college coaching than Cristobal, a Miami native and former standout O-lineman at UM. Cristobal has head coaching experience having spent six seasons transforming FIU from by far the worst program in Division I into one that went to two bowl games. He also has a good eye for coaching talent, having hired Scott Satterfield, Geoff Collins and Todd Orlando -- three of the more respected up-and-comers in the college game -- and played a key role in helping Greg Schiano flip Rutgers from laughing stock status.

Cristobal’s teams were fast and physical. They beat eventual Co-BIG EAST Champion Louisville and then C-USA power UCF, two programs with much greater resources than FIU. At FIU, things went bad in a hurry in his final season but a lot of that stemmed from the dysfunctional administration. Some may knock that Cristobal doesn’t have coordinator experience on his resume. Of course, neither did Jim Harbaugh, Urban Meyer or Art Briles, and things have worked out fine with those guys.

He's never been a Coordinator. In today's highly technical and situational game - again, especially where you have to win an ACC championship, then two playoff games - my theory is you need an elite skill. Is his talent evaluation, like Butch's? Is it Xs and Os? What is it, exactly?

I'm open to discuss anything.

Maybe he's a one off, but how could you pick Urban's elite skill? Was never a coordinator either.

I'm not a big Mario fan, but he certainly has an eye for coaching talent. Would really like him under a guy like Chud or Pagano. I fully expect us to go for "fit" as an over reaction to how poorly Golden fit down here. That will likely eliminate a guy like Herman who's from the west coast and has never coached in Fl.

I'm concerned they will overreact and make the same mistake again. Shannon had difficulty with the English language so they opted for a polished, well-spoken coach from the northeast. Golden was a poor fit who never understood Miami football. So, they will now look for a coach that "understands" South Florida and hire somebody like Mario.

 

[supacane]

Sounds like you might like this guy:

Mario Cristobal, Alabama offensive line coach, 45: He’s spent the past three seasons working under Nick Saban and was named the National Recruiter of the Year this winter after helping the Tide reel in, among others, Calvin Ridley, Daron Payne and Minkah Fitzpatrick, three of the nation’s top freshmen. No one is any more plugged into South Florida in college coaching than Cristobal, a Miami native and former standout O-lineman at UM. Cristobal has head coaching experience having spent six seasons transforming FIU from by far the worst program in Division I into one that went to two bowl games. He also has a good eye for coaching talent, having hired Scott Satterfield, Geoff Collins and Todd Orlando -- three of the more respected up-and-comers in the college game -- and played a key role in helping Greg Schiano flip Rutgers from laughing stock status.

Cristobal’s teams were fast and physical. They beat eventual Co-BIG EAST Champion Louisville and then C-USA power UCF, two programs with much greater resources than FIU. At FIU, things went bad in a hurry in his final season but a lot of that stemmed from the dysfunctional administration. Some may knock that Cristobal doesn’t have coordinator experience on his resume. Of course, neither did Jim Harbaugh, Urban Meyer or Art Briles, and things have worked out fine with those guys.

He's never been a Coordinator. In today's highly technical and situational game - again, especially where you have to win an ACC championship, then two playoff games - my theory is you need an elite skill. Is his talent evaluation, like Butch's? Is it Xs and Os? What is it, exactly?

I'm open to discuss anything.

Maybe he's a one off, but how could you pick Urban's elite skill? Was never a coordinator either.

I'm not a big Mario fan, but he certainly has an eye for coaching talent. Would really like him under a guy like Chud or Pagano. I fully expect us to go for "fit" as an over reaction to how poorly Golden fit down here. That will likely eliminate a guy like Herman who's from the west coast and has never coached in Fl.

I'm concerned they will overreact and make the same mistake again. Shannon had difficulty with the English language so they opted for a polished, well-spoken coach from the northeast. Golden was a poor fit who never understood Miami football. So, they will now look for a coach that "understands" South Florida and hire somebody like Mario.

Let's hope they prove us wrong. Cristobal is not the only one who understands Miami football. And maybe they understand how critical this hire is. Probably wishful thinking but a reminder getting rid of El Foldo is only 1/3 of the job

 

[FullyERicht]

Don't downplay the importance of recruiting. Look at guys like Saban, Meyer, Pete Caroll. These 3 guys have dominated CFB in the last 12 years. 8 championships between them. Guess what, they were all tremendous recruiters.

You are completely and utterly clueless.

They are great recruiters b/c they won a billion games.

Pete Carroll played in a BCS game in his SECOND SEASON at USC. That wasn't from him recruiting, it was from his COACHING. Then once it was obvious that the dude was a beast, kids came in droves. That's how it works at major brand programs.

Urban won the title in his SECOND SEASON at UF, and was undefeated HIS FIRST SEASON at OSU. That's not recruiting. That's coaching.

Saban played in the BCS in his second season at Bama. Again, not recruiting. Dude is a grumpy ******* who hates to recruit, but b/c he is such a **** good coach kids line up to play for him.

Miami recruits itself when it has a good coach. I mean after the last decade how the FVCK have you not learned how things work???

I agree with a lot of this but not all of it.

Carroll did not play for a NC in his 2nd season at USC. It was his 3rd (Pete Carroll Coaching Record | College Football at Sports-Reference.com) Additionally, he was a tireless and competitive recruiter. The guy treated 5* players like football games. He also had an incredibly strong presence in the hood throughout SoCal that gave him more of an edge (Carroll is a life force at street level - latimes). He didn't just win games. The guy did way more than that. I'd say Urban is a lot like him from everything I've ever read and from people that I know who know him.

Butch had an extraordinary eye for talent. He didn't always get the 5* guys but rather guys right for his system. He started to get them well before he was successful and won a ton of games. He's probably more unique in that sense.

I think Saban probably best fits what you wrote. Tremendous coach who has recruits flock to him. Factor in the unending support of the Bama Admin, and it's an easy recipe for success.

So, I think you're right but just not entirely right.

SMFH A BCS GAME. He played in the Orange Bowl his second season. A BCS GAME. Jesus ******* christ you are retarded.

 

[FullyERicht]

Ok again people there is a large difference between asking us to hire Urban Meyer and getting Rich Rod or Leach.

Tom Herman now, for example, is a lot like what Urban Meyer was before UF hired him. Justin Fuente actually reminds me a lot of his former mentor, Gary Patterson as well.

But the list doesn't end there. Pete Carroll was a decent, fired NFL coach with an insanely great pedigree (Pagano). Harbaugh was a big time college winner who killed it in the pros at first but then flamed out (Kelly). Bill Snyder was a legendary program builder who came back for one more dance (Butch).

There are options out there for us, and we have to treat this hire like we did back in 1978. Invest and make a STATEMENT hire.

I'm with you in most of that post but Pagano is nothing like Carroll. Pagano does't have the charisma like Carroll. Don't understand the Pagano love here, to me he would be like hiring Chud

Smfh how much charisma does Saban have? His resume is eerily similar to Carroll's pre-USC. Was a DC for a top NFL team, and ran an ELITE defense. Has worked under multiple excellent coaches. The guy's resume is STELLAR for a college head coach gig. Nobody has Pete Carroll's charisma, and nobody needs it. Pete Carroll won bc he is phenomenal coach. Period end of story. Anything else is window dressing, best suited for women.

 

[wushah]

So you made an argument, it was flawed, and now you're upset because I pointed it out. Furthermore, the rest of my post documents where else your statement failed, and the best you could do to counter was call me retarded. LOL. That's pretty weak. I'll keep moving because it's not worth my time, and you seem to be doing just fine with ******** yourself.

 

[LuCane]

So you made an argument, it was flawed, and now you're upset because I pointed it out. Furthermore, the rest of my post documents where else your statement failed, and the best you could do to counter was call me retarded. LOL. That's pretty weak. I'll keep moving because it's not worth my time, and you seem to be doing just fine with ******** yourself.

We're gonna scale a bit back on the personal attacks. Would love for this change to help revert this board back from the depths of **** (which reflected the toxicity in the program).

We'll be asking posters to attack posts and not posters more consistently. Thanks, Wush.

 

[FullyERicht]

I wrote in my post Pete Carroll played in a BCS game in his second year. You are aware that the orange bowl, the game he got USC to and won in his second season, WAS A BCS GAME.

There were four of them. Shall I write you the history of the BCS until you understand?

Pete Carroll, in his second season at USC, with leftover players from another regime, won a BCS (Orange Bowl) game.

The idea that any of those coaches won bc they recruited well is so beyond absurd.