Josh Sanguinetti Opening measurable

I'm glad our coaching staff, whatever their faults, is smart enough not to make their evals based on testing from a single camp in Ohio.

The issue is really that posters want to nitpick and downgrade almost every recruit. Keontra Smith tests well, posters still claim they dont want him.

I'm pretty sure Tyrique Stevenson and Kair Elam are the only DBs half this board wouldn't cry about.

Sanguinetti - had a bad 40
Davis - too short
Smith - not elite
Couch - too skinny
Steele - from Cali
And so on

I mean, if Sanguinetti looked bad on film, and was just not good at football like T McFadden, that would be one thing. But this is a kid that looks incredible on tape, and is a pretty good basketball player too. It's also just funny that people ignore that he was named a standout performer of that camp, and invited to the Opening finals from that camp.

With our needed at DB, this is a kid who'd be a great addition.
Miss me with that.

Sorry if I'm not gonna sweat a kid who not only has a lineman 40 time, but a horrific shuttle and zero ups. Not to mention, for a "long corner" being under 6 ft and shy of 175 lbs isn't helpful.

If the coaches want him, I'll cheer for him like every Cane. I just won't be expecting much of anything production wise. To me this is a kid with zero NFL potential. If I was advising him I'd say choose Stanford and get the degree.
 
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I'm glad our coaching staff, whatever their faults, is smart enough not to make their evals based on testing from a single camp in Ohio.

The issue is really that posters want to nitpick and downgrade almost every recruit. Keontra Smith tests well, posters still claim they dont want him.

I'm pretty sure Tyrique Stevenson and Kair Elam are the only DBs half this board wouldn't cry about.

Sanguinetti - had a bad 40
Davis - too short
Smith - not elite
Couch - too skinny
Steele - from Cali
And so on

I mean, if Sanguinetti looked bad on film, and was just not good at football like T McFadden, that would be one thing. But this is a kid that looks incredible on tape, and is a pretty good basketball player too. It's also just funny that people ignore that he was named a standout performer of that camp, and invited to the Opening finals from that camp.

With our needed at DB, this is a kid who'd be a great addition.

I mean he didn't shrink from 6'2 to 5'11 during one camp...There is so/so testing and then there's bad testing...And I like Sang's tape too, but "incredible" is pushing it.

Miss me with that.

If the coaches want him, I'll cheer for him like every Cane.

Same here...well said uback!
 
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I took the results from every Opening competition last year and compiled them into a database for reference in recruiting rankings. You can read my posts under HurricaneVision and see that I've maintained for years now that legitimate 40 times would shock most fans on how slow HS players' times really are.

For 2018 recruits, there were two players who broke a 4.4 40 yard dash. There were 1,442 players who ran a posted 40-yard dash. This isn't even including the scores of kids who ran and then had it scratched because of how hurt their feelings were over their time.

TWO broke a 4.4. (.001%) Rondale Moore and Anthony Schwartz
Eight players broke a 4.5. (.007%)
Sixty-Five players broke a 4.6. (.05%)

DB's for the 2018 class, there were 207 players who ran the 40-yard dash at that position. The average 40 time of those players was a 4.76. So, while it is absolutely true that HS players are almost universally never really 4.3 kids, it is also true that this time was very poor for Sanguinetti.

For the short shuttle there were 291 players who completed this event as a DB and the average was 4.34. Again, his time was pretty poor considering the results of his peers.

Great analysis of the numbers. I'd be curious how the numbers look when you cut out the wheat from the chaff and only look at kids who enrolled at a P5 school. My guess is the averages get a little better. I'd also bet Sango's vertical jump is similarly sub-par compared to 2018 DBs (and probably very poor compared to 2018 P5 DBs).

For the sake of keeping things in perspective, some people on this site were doing backflips when Diamante Howard decommitted/was politely shown the door because he is too small to play OLB and too slow/unathletic to play S. Although I generally agree with that assessment, it's interesting that Howard beat Sanguinetti in every category tested at The Opening. Howard measured in at 6'1.5" and 178 lbs., ran a 4.79 40 and 4.38 shuttle, and had a 38 powerball and 31.7 vertical. Sanguinetti measured in at 5'11.5" and 173 lbs., ran a 4.86 40 and 4.53 shuttle, and had a 36 powerball and 28.5 vertical.

Sanguinetti clearly has skills and awareness at DB that Howard doesn't (which shows in Sanguinetti's film), and I do think Sanguinetti is easily a better DB prospect than Howard, but it's interesting that (at least on these measurables) he test like the worse athlete.
 
Great analysis of the numbers. I'd be curious how the numbers look when you cut out the wheat from the chaff and only look at kids who enrolled at a P5 school. My guess is the averages get a little better. I'd also bet Sango's vertical jump is similarly sub-par compared to 2018 DBs (and probably very poor compared to 2018 P5 DBs).

For the sake of keeping things in perspective, some people on this site were doing backflips when Diamante Howard decommitted/was politely shown the door because he is too small to play OLB and too slow/unathletic to play S. Although I generally agree with that assessment, it's interesting that Howard beat Sanguinetti in every category tested at The Opening. Howard measured in at 6'1.5" and 178 lbs., ran a 4.79 40 and 4.38 shuttle, and had a 38 powerball and 31.7 vertical. Sanguinetti measured in at 5'11.5" and 173 lbs., ran a 4.86 40 and 4.53 shuttle, and had a 36 powerball and 28.5 vertical.

Sanguinetti clearly has skills and awareness at DB that Howard doesn't (which shows in Sanguinetti's film), and I do think Sanguinetti is easily a better DB prospect than Howard, but it's interesting that (at least on these measurables) he test like the worse athlete.

277 DB's competed in the vertical jump with the average being 33.05"

For me, his vertical jump might be the most concerning testing that he performed because it shows a lack of lower body explosion. This isn't a drill that you need to learn technique either- as that is a completely valid critique of a player running the 40-yard dash or short shuttle- but rather a step up and perform it drill. Miami was shockingly bad in the vertical jump numbers under Golden and that was a major critique of mine for him is that he didn't recruit explosive athletes.

You can compile various metrics into scores for different areas of the body during testing and then use those scores to identify if these traits show up on the film. The film always has to be good for a player, or at least show the traits that equate to success, but you can use the metrics to identify players who have the potential to develop into more than they currently are versus players who are more maxed out already.

Explosive Lower Body Score = (vert + 3.5*Broad jump)*(weight/height)/3000

The score itself isn't as important as how they test in relation to their peers. You don't have vert for this particular formula, so you can simply measure how explosive they are in the vertical jump from a mass and density standpoint in relation to their peers.

Speed Score = 100*(1-(40 time/(.0397*(weight/height)+3.092)))

This metric does skew towards big players who run fast times, but it shows the amount of force you can exert in addition to pure straight line speed.

Dynamic Speed = (((40 time + Short Shuttle + 3-cone)/3)/(0.0397*(weight/height)+3.092)))

This measures how dynamic a players movement skills are for their size. A pretty important metric for defensive backs.
 
It'll be interesting to track the success of a lower rated player named Christian Morgan, who was dynamic in his testing numbers at 190 pounds. He was rated a three-star safety, but just destroyed the testing metrics and is going to Baylor.

6'.05" and 190 pounds. Ran a 4.56 40, 4.03 Short Shuttle, 43.5 Power Ball, 42.8 Vertical Jump.

Or Kenneth ****s, a three-star cornerback going to Wake Forest.

6"0" and 197 pounds. Ran a 4.51 40, 4.10 Short Shuttle, 42.0 Power Ball, 41.4 Vertical Jump.

The top performers in the athletic testing's at Defensive Back were generally three-star kids, but all of them are going to lower level P5's. JaKorey Hawkins was another kid who tested like a freak at cornerback and is going to Ole Miss.

I'm taking kids who test like that as the last kids in my class, but you have to have the film to back it up. Sanguinetti tested worse than Brendan McKeon, a zero star DB who went to prep school since he had zero offers (including Stonehill College and Bryant University), so you can't just look at the testing numbers and throw out the play they put on film.

Guys like Clarke Solo, Michael Bailey, Taeshaun Rainey all tested a tick better than Sanguinetti and all will be going pro in something other than football. Rainey is going to Chowan University, Solo is going to Iowa Western Community College, Bailey is at Virginia Union University.

His testing results would make me scrutinize his play more. I truly could not find a defensive back that tested like he did that signed with a D1 school. His closest comp based on my database in athletic testing was Michael O'Neal from Midland Valley, who signed with Savannah State. Almost exclusively, the players in his testing bubble did not sign to play football in college either at all, or at least at the D1 level. The closest player I found in his bubble- who was bigger, ran faster, jumped higher, and had a better short shuttle, signed with Western Michigan as a safety.
 
Agreed on the sub-par vertical jump being the most concerning. I mentioned that briefly earlier in the thread, as I have always been told the vertical jump is a "pure" measurement of explosiveness (in the lower body).

Sanguinetti's subpar testing, your analysis on guys with similar metrics to Sanguinetti's, and Sanguinetti's solid film is making me wonder whether he is (unfortunately) a low ceiling guy. He may already be maximizing his (perhaps limited) athletic potential (by using sound technique and having above-average recognition skills), leaving him little room for growth.

Either way, I appreciate the analysis and next-level look at the numbers!
 
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Great analysis of the numbers. I'd be curious how the numbers look when you cut out the wheat from the chaff and only look at kids who enrolled at a P5 school. My guess is the averages get a little better. I'd also bet Sango's vertical jump is similarly sub-par compared to 2018 DBs (and probably very poor compared to 2018 P5 DBs).

For the sake of keeping things in perspective, some people on this site were doing backflips when Diamante Howard decommitted/was politely shown the door because he is too small to play OLB and too slow/unathletic to play S. Although I generally agree with that assessment, it's interesting that Howard beat Sanguinetti in every category tested at The Opening. Howard measured in at 6'1.5" and 178 lbs., ran a 4.79 40 and 4.38 shuttle, and had a 38 powerball and 31.7 vertical. Sanguinetti measured in at 5'11.5" and 173 lbs., ran a 4.86 40 and 4.53 shuttle, and had a 36 powerball and 28.5 vertical.

Sanguinetti clearly has skills and awareness at DB that Howard doesn't (which shows in Sanguinetti's film), and I do think Sanguinetti is easily a better DB prospect than Howard, but it's interesting that (at least on these measurables) he test like the worse athlete.

Solely due to the fact that Howard never showed any ability to play in space. He stood out like a sore thumb every time he was put in a safety role or in 1-on-1 coverage
 
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