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Josh Horton and DL position thoughts

The U is back to work said:


Nevermind I know nothing then 😂
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Don’t be too hard on yourself, PFF usual knows less.

On another note, I liked what I saw from Wayne last night. He loved well and his get off was better than his highlight film showed. He definitely wasn’t as big as I thought he would be but I think he has a bright future ahead of him.
 
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LuCane said:
This is an important topic, I think.

I'm not sure there's any way for our defense to take the next step without LT handling some of those double teams and showing out a bigger level on the big game stages.
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The double teams are coming because he's seen as our main threat at DT. LT has to play as if he's a 0 or 1 tech. I'm not so sure that's his game. Someone's got to step up and relieve the pressure until we get Mesidor and Deen back.
LuCane said:
As someone who's been talked about as a "surefire first rounder," we're sure as **** gonna need the plays this year. He had 8.5 TFLs his first year and 10.5 TFLs his second season. So far, his stats are quiet and we've seen the game reviews as to why. Looking forward to a breakthrough during ACC play.
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Horton looked huge and has the look of a future starter and big time player here

LT is getting double teamed now and its quieting him and his production. Need someone who knows more than I to say whether he's playing well still or not, but IMO he's not showing up enough or making enough plays to be considered a first rounder. We saw way more impact playsout of RJ Mcintosh, Norton, and Gerald Willis and they were late round to undrafted players

DE Position is very very thin especially with Mesidor injured. Kelly hasn't made a leap yet, Harvey is solid but not a constant sack threat on the edge, Chantz is a decent depth piece and Jayden Wayne looks the part but is still young. Bain looks legit but he is THICK and might be a DT longterm (Aaron Donald or Kancey type)

We need Dudes at DE. We haven't gotten to see Anthony Campbell yet and Moss looks like a non P5 player. Lightfoot and Rudolph have the ability to come in right away next year and earn time
 
LuCane said:
Live snaps matter a lot. Whatever is seen at practice could be a decent clue, but I tend to add disproportionate weight to how players perform in games and in live snaps. This is especially important at certain position groups.

I think Josh Horton earned himself some snaps in non-JV level games.

He did a few things that will transfer regardless of opponent:

- off the snap, was able to swim and use feet to get upfield
- showed athleticism chasing plays
- height/weight are listed at 6’ 4” 295, but he looked taller and heavier than players listed around the same

If he can hold the point decently well against D1 opponents, he could help us with depth, and hopefully will catapult into a rotation player next season.

If so, somehow we’d be deeper at DT than at an Edge position (that’s another topic, probably) that seems a little shaky right now. This is especially the case for 2024 IF Bain ends up sliding inside to 3T.

Bain
Bama transfer
Another portal
Moten
Horton
Jones (true frosh next season)
Another top level recruit
Depth

At DE, we’re not looking as strong as many presumed - now and in the future:

Mesidor may be out for some time.
Kelly is banged up. And, we’re waiting to see him elevate his game under the lights.
Bain is getting a ton of snaps and maybe will slide inside next season.
Wayne looked even lankier than I imagined and he didn’t even play Bain’s role - instead was playing Kelly/Harvey role.
Chantz is rotational.
Moss had a rough game under the lights AND is underweight.

All in all, it’s fascinating to see perception of a position group flip once games begin and a few factors (injuries, etc.) come into play.
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We just need to make it through this seasonon what we got... then all those guys need to go ape **** in the xffseason getting jacked up and working on their game. We might be okay with Portal guys and a strong 24 class next year if that all happens.
 
LuCane said:
That's Popo Aguirre, who's listed at 6' 2" 230, directly in front of him. There's a possibility that Acheampong is 9 feet tall.
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Popo looks short and not because of Acheampong, but because he is short.

Bobby Washington was least heralded of our LB recruits, but he just might be the most talented and ultimately the best in that class.
 
Gables Cane said:
Popo looks short and not because of Acheampong, but because he is short.

Bobby Washington was least heralded of our LB recruits, but he just might be the most talented and ultimately the best in that class.
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Agree on Washington. No idea about his mental side, but he moves the best of any I’ve watched so far. Guidry’s defense is a dream for agile athletes and vice versa.
 
AUcane said:
I’ve been harping on the DE concern for some time. DT is also a concern as you alluded to, @LuCane .

Harvey was non impactful last night which is odd. Harvey can give you really nice minutes but be invisible other times. This has been his MO since he’s been here. Chantz is underwhelming and might very well portal after this year. Bain is a stud at DE but beyond him, it remains a question mark.

Wayne has the potential but I was expecting him to be closer to 260 than 240 at this point. Moss will be a situational guy here.

We could very well lose 8-9 DL after this year.

Next year we’ll have at DT:

Moten
Horton
Cambpell
???

The development of Collins and Wayne wil be critical for our DL but when you only sign 3 DTs in 3 recruiting cycles, you’re constantly playing catch-up.

My guess is that we’ll sign 2 more portal DL (one at DE and one at DT).
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Burroughs at DT too.
 
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NorthEastCane said:
The double teams are coming because he's seen as our main threat at DT. LT has to play as if he's a 0 or 1 tech. I'm not so sure that's his game. Someone's got to step up and relieve the pressure until we get Mesidor and Deen back.
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Yea apart of it is this, he needs to be at 3t more. But he still have the same flaws that hurt him, very bad pad level, doesn’t have a consistent rush plan and a mediocre motor. Im hoping he’s fully in shape for the unc game because we’re gonna need him
 
it takes time to build an elite quality roster. We all know UM is not we’re Mario envision them a depth wise. But that’s why I got ya recruit, transfer portal, kick products, high school recruits. Let things play out.
 
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atlcane72 said:
Check my post history. I posted in the game day discussion when I saw it. Go find it yourself.
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I did check and It was three, it was more of him being passed off as he did a stunt / twist rather than all of them “ blocking him“. Rather than say just a bill rush. Stunts / twists cause confusion.
 
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nvlahos said:
Horton looked huge and has the look of a future starter and big time player here

LT is getting double teamed now and its quieting him and his production. Need someone who knows more than I to say whether he's playing well still or not, but IMO he's not showing up enough or making enough plays to be considered a first rounder. We saw way more impact playsout of RJ Mcintosh, Norton, and Gerald Willis and they were late round to undrafted players

DE Position is very very thin especially with Mesidor injured. Kelly hasn't made a leap yet, Harvey is solid but not a constant sack threat on the edge, Chantz is a decent depth piece and Jayden Wayne looks the part but is still young. Bain looks legit but he is THICK and might be a DT longterm (Aaron Donald or Kancey type)

We need Dudes at DE. We haven't gotten to see Anthony Campbell yet and Moss looks like a non P5 player. Lightfoot and Rudolph have the ability to come in right away next year and earn time
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Agree with all the above. Especially LT. Kid is solid, demands a lot of attention. But he's still not firing on all cylinders. Our great DTs used to change game outcomes. Outside of the worst game I've ever seen (UVA last year), he has only had a marginal impact on games so far.

In general, pressure up the middle has been our Achilles heel this season. We push the pocket well. But we're not getting enough penetration. I have to believe we'll overwhelm UNC's IOL and former Cane Gaynor. But it will hurt us vs Clemson and FSU.

As far as DEs go, some of it is scheme. They have a lot more responsibilities than a Manny or Steele defense. And our blitzes are coming from all over the place now, so when we get to the QB, it's often not from the front 4. Some of it is offenses protecting more and better. But yeah, outside of Mesidor and Bain, I haven't see the other guys getting to the QB quickly enough.

All that said, if we see it, then Mario, JT and Salave'a see it. I have zero concerns that they'll address this one way (development and HS recruiting) or another (portal).
 
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