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Jordan Addison to the portal

PittsburghCane said:
As a native Pittsburgher I’ll allow it.
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I think there's actually a Buca di Beppo at Station Square. Dinner is on Carlo. We'll tell him we're Dave Wannstedt's nephews and that John Ruiz is offering the next best kid on the Pitt roster $42 million and a houseboat to transfer. That we think that's more than TJ Watt will make next year.
 
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AtlAtty said:
I think congress will have a much tougher time than most understand. Because NIL was a US Supreme Court decision, any law that limit NIL in any way will immediately be taken to court. And the Supreme Court is not keen to allow the limitation of a right that they were the first to recognize. This issue played out over and over after Brown v. Board of Education desegregated schools, and after Roe v. Wade legalized abortions.
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Congress can set up a minimum wage law. In theory, a maximum wage law could also be set up. And if the latter is legal, could it not be micro-targeted at a subset, ie student athletes?
 
TemplarCane said:
I agree with your sentiments about mixing politics and sports…but…

I’m no lawyer but I don’t believe SCOTUS is responsible for defining NIL regulations. The NCAA limiting student-athlete income derived from the student-athlete’s name, image, and likeness was illegal. Although the ruling was a paperweight of pages and opinions, it’s that simple.

The schools, through membership in their governing body, the NCAA, need to define how NIL works, and within established law. The problem is the schools do not care about the health of the sport as a whole, or at least lack the foresight to see how damaged CFB has become.

The sport is broken, corrupt, and sadly, won’t be fixed. E$PN will make sure of that.

Comparisons to the NFL aren’t equivalent. Owners realized decades ago that true competition was best for all involved and have modified their ownership agreements, financial structure, and player-bargaining agreements around those principles. The players bought in too.

CFB has no principles. The $EC poaching Texas and Oklahoma is clear evidence.

I agree we do not want Congress involved. For one, they have more important duties, and two, they couldn’t fix the problem.

Boosters and Collectives negotiating NIL deals with high schoolers and back channel-poaching players from other CFB teams is like Dark Money in politics. We all know about it but there’s little to nothing we can do about it.

Rambling, and maybe wrong, but that’s my opinion.
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Agreed. CFB has little to no foresight, unless their objective (and that of ESPN) is to contract the entire sport down into 20-24 teams nationally. Because that was the long term trend prior to NIL; another couple of decades of Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, and OU smothering the playoff and using the NCAA as blockers to prevent others from cheating while they did with impunity was going to guarantee contraction. Even ESPN could not completely overlook the obvious.

A completely unregulated NIL market will do something different, but the end state will be the same in roughly the same time period. Only this time Miami has a seat at the table.
 
TemplarCane said:
You’re the attorney…at this stage wouldn’t NIL regulations limiting player deals require player approval? A union, or at least an association negotiating a collective agreement with the NCAA, or perhaps a conference?

Schools agreeing to limit deals would be collusion, no?

States limiting deals would never fly since it creates an imbalance. We saw that Day One.
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100% correct. And frankly after reading this I would think you are a labor law attorney. In theory, if there was collective bargaining between the players, thru an union, and the NCAA/universities, there could be limitations imposed on NIL. Just as the NBA and NFL players agreed to a salary cap.
But without a union and collective bargain again it is in all practical sense impossible to limit NIL.

But really the bigger road block is that the NCAA/universities are not paying the players, it is private businesses. So the NCAA/univesitites would find it next to impossible to limit what a private, outside business offers. As an example, the NBA has a salary cap on TEAM spending, but not on outside endorsements. NIL is effectively outside endorsements so how can any institution limit outside endorsements? It can’t.
If the NCAA/universities had come to their senses years ago and paid players then there could have been a form of a cap. But even then how to limit outside endorsements?

I just do not see a way to limit NIL
 
GojiraCane said:
Congress can set up a minimum wage law. In theory, a maximum wage law could also be set up. And if the latter is legal, could it not be micro-targeted at a subset, ie student athletes?
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The problem is that the NCAA/universities are not paying the athletes. This is all outside endorsement income. This is like trying to limit how much Kevin Durant can make on his shoe deal.
 
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AtlAtty said:
The problem is that the NCAA/universities are not paying the athletes. This is all outside endorsement income. This is like trying to limit how much Kevin Durant can make on hills shoe deal.
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Yes! If you think of NIL deals almost exclusively as sponsorships, you’ll understand why this is likely to never be severely governed again. That is the reality of the “issue” (if you believe this is actually an issue, instead of the naturally messy and brackish result of a massive monetary flow pouring into a once untouched labor pool): College athletes can for the first time be paid (almost) like everyone else in America. (Somehow the schools further escaped having to actually compensate their athletes, outsourcing it to businesses and collectives. Which is fine, most athletes don’t generate a dime for the school and most schools can’t afford to pay them.)

Thats it, that’s the “issue”. If you as an athlete (or brand/personality) have any amount of value to someone with a business they can give you any amount of money for said value. “Oh but they have to prove that value”, oh, but no they don’t. The value is the perception that you will bring more wins or prestige to their favorite program. That has almost no inherent value outside of the insane ecosystem of college sports, except in the most limited of cases.

If you want to make Milligan College the tennis capitol of the NAIA world, you can invest in sponsorship deals that dwarf what the other schools in your conference do. That has no value outside of your desire, nor does it need to. If a business values my input as a consultant, they can invest in my services to improve their business strategy. Maybe I make them more money, maybe I just look good on paper to their board.

Honestly I think the most accurate way to think of this is patronage, but that makes people feel icky and conjures up “pay for play” boogymen. College sports haven’t invented a new way to make money, they simply stopped interfering with some of the oldest.
 
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WeBallinBoyz said:
Just curious, how would Taxes go about an NIL deal from a California-based team? Treated as traditional income, or are there some special clause?
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Schedule C income.

Player gets a 1099 (he is NOT a statutory employee). Player can deduct reasonable business expenses. Player then pays income tax (fed and state) and Self-Employment tax (fed).
 
AtlAtty said:
100% correct. And frankly after reading this I would think you are a labor law attorney. In theory, if there was collective bargaining between the players, thru an union, and the NCAA/universities, there could be limitations imposed on NIL. Just as the NBA and NFL players agreed to a salary cap.
But without a union and collective bargain again it is in all practical sense impossible to limit NIL.

But really the bigger road block is that the NCAA/universities are not paying the players, it is private businesses. So the NCAA/univesitites would find it next to impossible to limit what a private, outside business offers. As an example, the NBA has a salary cap on TEAM spending, but not on outside endorsements. NIL is effectively outside endorsements so how can any institution limit outside endorsements? It can’t.
If the NCAA/universities had come to their senses years ago and paid players then there could have been a form of a cap. But even then how to limit outside endorsements?

I just do not see a way to limit NIL
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What may happen if this thing really starts spiraling out of control is that the top bag schools have an understanding with each other regarding how much a player at a certain position is worth and no one goes over that.

Then say a high school Cam Newton comes along and thinks he’s worth 10 million per year but all the schools agreed with each other that the top 5 star Qb is only worth 1 million per year, that player would then bring a federal lawsuit alleging collusion from the teams/private boosters.

This is not the scenario either side wants. The only way to avoid a court adjudicating specific parameters of NIL is to have college players form a union.

I don’t see any other way around it but I’m not a labor attorney so who knows.
 
AtlAtty said:
The problem is that the NCAA/universities are not paying the athletes. This is all outside endorsement income. This is like trying to limit how much Kevin Durant can make on his shoe deal.
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Right, but then (at a national level) you pass legislation that sets a maximum wage for a college student of (x) dollars, including deferred payments.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
Schedule C income.

Player gets a 1099 (he is NOT a statutory employee). Player can deduct reasonable business expenses. Player then pays income tax (fed and state) and Self-Employment tax (fed).
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Been thinking about this and it is an area I do not touch. If the player sets up a corporation, say TVD, Inc., will that lower their tax bill?
 
WeBallinBoyz said:
Addison would be foolish not to listen to other offers, considering nearly 49% of his NIL deal will be swallowed by the government there.
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False. Most of the taxes he owes are federal, whether he goes to USC or Miami.

I'm not saying we don't want him at UM, but the CA state income tax rate will be somewhere between 10 to 12 percent, depending on the timing and structure of the comp.
 
wspcane said:
Been thinking about this and it is an area I do not touch. If the player sets up a corporation, say TVD, Inc., will that lower their tax bill?
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Yeah, you'd need to do it VERY correctly.

Meaning, if you just set up an LLC, and pass it through to your 1040 with a K-1, you don't benefit from lower corporate tax rates.

If you set up a C-corp (highest federal corporate tax rate is 21% currently), you would pay less in tax, and you'd get a chance to build off the original money. So you could go out and buy real estate, go out and buy other kinds of investments. Maybe pay yourself a smaller salary too.

But the issue with C-corps has always been "double taxation", so your long-term hope would be a reduction in personal income tax rates, or to squeeze the money out in future years when you aren't earning as much.

It's a tightrope.


EDIT: Can't believe I have to edit myself on this, but C-corps get taxed in FL (5.5%). Not as high as in CA, but it would eat into SOME of the Fed tax-rate-differential savings.
 
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Tad Footeball said:
I think there's actually a Buca di Beppo at Station Square. Dinner is on Carlo. We'll tell him we're Dave Wannstedt's nephews and that John Ruiz is offering the next best kid on the Pitt roster $42 million and a houseboat to transfer. That we think that's more than TJ Watt will make next year.
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Buca di Beppo at Station Square

**** you’re bringing back some memories haha
 
TimeBum said:
I don't know why anyone would want to move to California. Not kidding about taxes: $2 million NIL in Cali is actually only 1 mil in take-home.

www.forbes.com

California Tax Calculator 2023-2024: Estimate Your Taxes - Forbes Advisor

Use our income tax calculator to find out what your take home pay will be in California for the tax year. Enter your details to estimate your salary after tax.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
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Let's try not to use the Forbes income tax calculator, shall we?

First, he will not get $2M all in one year. He just won't.

Second, he can take deductions, and while that is still money "out of his pocket", it's money that reduces his tax bill.

Third, the Federal amount is probably UNDERSTATED, because if the kid reports the income on Schedule C (or as pass-through income from an LLC, thus putting it on Schedule E), he will very likely be partially or wholly subject to Self-Employment tax. That's the tax that takes the place of FICA/Medicare for those of us who are paid by an employer on a regular paycheck. The SE Tax rate is 15.3% (which represents both the "employer" and "employee" halves of FICA and Medicare, though he would get a deduction for the half that represents the "employer" portion).

Finally, California state tax is a graduated rate system, with more gradations than on the federal level. Depending on how you structure the payout of the comp, it is entirely possible for "$2 million" not to hit the 12.3% maximum CA tax rate.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
False. Most of the taxes he owes are federal, whether he goes to USC or Miami.

I'm not saying we don't want him at UM, but the CA state income tax rate will be somewhere between 10 to 12 percent, depending on the timing and structure of the comp.
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10 to 12% is a big fūcking bite of your income. Somebody getting 1 million is paying about $120,000 extra in taxes. That’s not nothing.
 
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