"It's because they win and attract them....."

[jerzeycane]

I can only assume the OP watches very little football. The last SEC QB to be highly regarded/drafted in the NFL? Aside from Newton? I'm sincerely asking. The entire conference, spread/option completely aside, is predicated upon ball control and line control. Arkansas was the line exception, and just hired a coach who will move them back to the herd. QBs are not consistently featured successfully in the SEC compared with defensive tackles.

You're kinda making his point.

I thought about this in February, but chose not to post anything about it, because the "you're whining" and the "wambulance" comments would have over run the thread.

It's a legitimate discussion founded on solid reasoning.

His reasoning was that they offer duffel bags. My reasoning was that they feature one type of player and not the other. How is his argument made by my argument when they are completely different? Similarly, you can look at our defensive scheme and say that it doesn't feature your traditional, heavy hitter, big-name defensive tackle. By contrast Miami's quarterback/offensive style features and elevates players at that position. Same with the offense of line. Miami set gets players noticed, and shows their versatility in pass pro and run blocking.

Neither of these concepts requires duffel bags. And that's not questioning whether or not duffel bags are used.

Wouldn't you feature the player that you can more easily obtain?

Why would you feature a QB when the QBs you get aren't that good?

The QB's in the SEC are game managers. Don't ***** the pooch and we'll win. They aren't big time risk takers and don't project very will to the next level.

This is where the conversation could start about why they don't attract top level Pro-Style QB's.

 

[ucrew02]

Sec schools have facilities, fan support, generally warmer weather, great television exposure and the best competition. There are a ton of sec players in the NFL so the conference name carries clout. The conference is it's own brand. OP's post ignores a lot of these points in favor of $$ to poor kids. I disagree whole heartedly.

 

[fastcane]

In most cases whoever controls the line of scrimmage wins the game, not all time but most of the time. Golden gets it, he has done a nice job getting offensive linemen and starting to grab some D linemen now. With great QB's and receivers Miami will be right back where we belong, soon.

I can only assume the OP watches very little football. The last SEC QB to be highly regarded/drafted in the NFL? Aside from Newton? I'm sincerely asking. The entire conference, spread/option completely aside, is predicated upon ball control and line control. Arkansas was the line exception, and just hired a coach who will move them back to the herd. QBs are not consistently featured successfully in the SEC compared with defensive tackles.

 

[2Focusd804]

are you kidding me Arron Murray, Ryan Mallet, Cam Newton, Tim Tebow, Johnny Manziel, Mcelroy, Driskel,Mettenberger, Tannehill, Jamarcus Russell you got a mix of first round draft picks Heisman winners and top 10 HS prospects

Tebow is a dual threat
Manziel was a dual threat and not highly recruited
McElroy wasn't a big time recruit at all
Cam got paid
Tannehill was a wide receiver
Ryan Mallet was a transfer and went to Bobby Petrino the QB guru
Driskel was a dual threat
Mettenberger was a JUCO transfer

Jamarcus Russell is probably the only guy who was a legitimate, big time, Pro-Style QB coming out of high school, not to mention that those are spread out over a number of years.

You didn't prove anything by listing those names

tannehill was a 4* QB who played WR bc he was a good athlete and they had highly touted QB entriched who fell apart
mettenburg was a juco who originally signed with Georgia and was a top 10 QB out of high school.
cam also signed with florida out of high school
also why does dual threat matter if thats the scheme the team runs? a top ranked qb is a top ranked qb

 

[IndayArtHauz]

I can only assume the OP watches very little football. The last SEC QB to be highly regarded/drafted in the NFL? Aside from Newton? I'm sincerely asking. The entire conference, spread/option completely aside, is predicated upon ball control and line control. Arkansas was the line exception, and just hired a coach who will move them back to the herd. QBs are not consistently featured successfully in the SEC compared with defensive tackles.

You're kinda making his point.

I thought about this in February, but chose not to post anything about it, because the "you're whining" and the "wambulance" comments would have over run the thread.

It's a legitimate discussion founded on solid reasoning.

His reasoning was that they offer duffel bags. My reasoning was that they feature one type of player and not the other. How is his argument made by my argument when they are completely different? Similarly, you can look at our defensive scheme and say that it doesn't feature your traditional, heavy hitter, big-name defensive tackle. By contrast Miami's quarterback/offensive style features and elevates players at that position. Same with the offense of line. Miami set gets players noticed, and shows their versatility in pass pro and run blocking.

Neither of these concepts requires duffel bags. And that's not questioning whether or not duffel bags are used.

Wouldn't you feature the player that you can more easily obtain?

Why would you feature a QB when the QBs you get aren't that good?

The QB's in the SEC are game managers. Don't ***** the pooch and we'll win. They aren't big time risk takers and don't project very will to the next level.

This is where the conversation could start about why they don't attract top level Pro-Style QB's.

Two follow ups:

1) would you trade Miami's perceived level of QB for a top-tier DL?

2) which conference has won 7 straight NCs with "game managers" at the helm and the gold standard on the defensive line?

It's faulty deconstruction to say "they couldn't get elite QBs so they defaulted to winning national championships by backing into elite DTs".

 

[2Focusd804]

I can only assume the OP watches very little football. The last SEC QB to be highly regarded/drafted in the NFL? Aside from Newton? I'm sincerely asking. The entire conference, spread/option completely aside, is predicated upon ball control and line control. Arkansas was the line exception, and just hired a coach who will move them back to the herd. QBs are not consistently featured successfully in the SEC compared with defensive tackles.

You're kinda making his point.

I thought about this in February, but chose not to post anything about it, because the "you're whining" and the "wambulance" comments would have over run the thread.

It's a legitimate discussion founded on solid reasoning.

His reasoning was that they offer duffel bags. My reasoning was that they feature one type of player and not the other. How is his argument made by my argument when they are completely different? Similarly, you can look at our defensive scheme and say that it doesn't feature your traditional, heavy hitter, big-name defensive tackle. By contrast Miami's quarterback/offensive style features and elevates players at that position. Same with the offense of line. Miami set gets players noticed, and shows their versatility in pass pro and run blocking.

Neither of these concepts requires duffel bags. And that's not questioning whether or not duffel bags are used.

Wouldn't you feature the player that you can more easily obtain?

Why would you feature a QB when the QBs you get aren't that good?

The QB's in the SEC are game managers. Don't ***** the pooch and we'll win. They aren't big time risk takers and don't project very will to the next level.

This is where the conversation could start about why they don't attract top level Pro-Style QB's.

Two follow ups:

1) would you trade Miami's perceived level of QB for a top-tier DL?

2) which conference has won 7 straight NCs with "game managers" at the helm and the gold standard on the defensive line?

It's faulty deconstruction to say "they couldn't get elite QBs so they defaulted to winning national championships by backing into elite DTs".

that win with game managers is not entirely accurate out of the 7 championships the SEC has had recently the only real game managers where mcleroy and maybe chris leak. the other qbs where Jamarcus Russell, Tebow, Cam Newton, and Mccaron 2x. those were all pretty good college Qb's

 

[jerzeycane]

Two follow ups:

1) would you trade Miami's perceived level of QB for a top-tier DL?

2) which conference has won 7 straight NCs with "game managers" at the helm and the gold standard on the defensive line?

It's faulty deconstruction to say "they couldn't get elite QBs so they defaulted to winning national championships by backing into elite DTs".

1) That's irrelevant to our discussion seeing as Miami hasn't had that level of QB

2) You're missing the point. Why do they have the gold standard along the defensive line and presumably everywhere else, but don't seem to get the cream of the crop when it comes to QB's? You don't see the disparity there? I don't think this issue has very much at all to do with National Championships.

It's a simple question. Why are they more effective in recruiting the top corners, WR's, linebackers, and linemen, while settling for game managers/dual threats at the QB position?

I don't think the class distinction as you move throughout the positions is a coincidence at all.

 

[motorcitycane]

I think we all have underestimated how having a good QB can make a world of difference. Look what TB did to Louisville, Nassib to Syracuse, Johnny Football to TAMU, Tajh Boyd to Clemson, EJ Manuel to FSU. Yes football is a team game but I dont know where those programs would be at right now without those individuals. Miami will be the next to rise due to good QBs. Morris, Olsen, Kaaya.

Look what Colton Browning has done for ULM... he changed the program.

Miami got Next. Regardless of the D. Tamu defense wasnt that good, neither was ULM, or Clemsons d. We all know how bad WVU defense was. Yet Geno had WVU ranked high.

 

[IndayArtHauz]

Two follow ups:

1) would you trade Miami's perceived level of QB for a top-tier DL?

2) which conference has won 7 straight NCs with "game managers" at the helm and the gold standard on the defensive line?

It's faulty deconstruction to say "they couldn't get elite QBs so they defaulted to winning national championships by backing into elite DTs".

1) That's irrelevant to our discussion seeing as Miami hasn't had that level of QB

2) You're missing the point. Why do they have the gold standard along the defensive line and presumably everywhere else, but don't seem to get the cream of the crop when it comes to QB's? You don't see the disparity there? I don't think this issue has very much at all to do with National Championships.

It's a simple question. Why are they more effective in recruiting the top corners, WR's, linebackers, and linemen, while settling for game managers/dual threats at the QB position?

I don't think the class distinction as you move throughout the positions is a coincidence at all.

1) was an excellent way to sidestep my question.

2) you are still assuming that SEC coaches are failing at securing their top targets at one position--yet at the same time saying it has nothing to do with the scheme they run. I've said this already: SEC offenses largely do not feature the QB. Why then is it a conundrum why elite QBs choose teams who will feature AND develop them into an NFL ready player at their position? Who's going to average 40+ passes a game: Alabama or a spin the wheel PAC12/BIG12 team. Everything SEC is predicated on minimizing the need to score quickly and in droves. Eat clock and fatigue your opponent. Limit his options. The QB's role is a distributor instead of a scorer. Why is this not obvious? It behooves an elite QB to go to a school where he can throw all over the yard.

Do you think Max Browne cares if USC wins a national championship compared to their legacy at QB? He wants to go to the NFL, which is a QB league. In this one area, the SEC isn't NFL Light.

Between the best SEC teams (Bama, LSU, UF, UGA and AUB) they've had one (?) NFL-ready QB in the last 4+ years. Newton--big IIRC because I can't remember them all.

To your WR point: most SEC teams have one major WR and a slew of decent players. UT aside, they're not stacked at the position. Same reason applies: most SEC teams don't pass enough for multiple top WRs to be fed the ball.

But we've about entered the running in circles portion of the thread.

 

[jerzeycane]

Agree to disagree.

 

[IndayArtHauz]

Agree to disagree.

Well said, sir.

/tips cap

 

[bransuperpower]

why dont we just start paying recruits? /ohh

 

[bransuperpower]

i dont but the theory that everyone is paying players, when you can walk in a players home and say "this is how a player came in and left a first rounder" that should be more then enough. look at bama 08 class they had a couple of 3 star DT that turned out pretty good if i was a DT that tells me they can develop me even if that means not playing my first year but i can have a chance to compete

 

[raeder21]

omg, schools pay recruits? Isn't that a violation?

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

So its a race thing............

 

[Boston_Cane]

OP may have a point, but I doubt that because Kevin Olsen is a white, middle-class (multi-millionaire NFL brother notwithstanding) pro-style QB going to his legacy school, therefore all pro-style QB's are white and middle-class and can't be bribed/ All DT's have a Welfare Queen momma pimping their kids for top dollar. The NCAA cartel has created an inevitable black-market for player payments. Would it be hard to believe that David Cornwell got some cash with his commitment? Everybody likes cash.

 

[bransuperpower]

So its a race thing............

sec only pays because they are poor and black and fat i guess

 

[Biscuits]

I wonder...

If you looked at OP's list of DTs, how many would be from the Souf? I'm assuming a large percentage. I don't think UGA or Bama is pulling a lot of touted DTs from SoCal, or Jersey. They're pulling bigass kids from LA, MS, AL, and the like. Thus, it's not surprising at all that these kids go to SEC schools. Whether they pay the kids or not.

OP. Produce your lists.

And the QB argument is weak as ****. FSU just had a kid drafted first round. They're not 'failing' to pull pocket passers. They're targeting mobiles. Not because they're easier to pay off. Laff.

 

[killa1storm]

The head in the sand crowd loves to throw this nonsense excuse as to how the SEC cleans up on certain positions. But these type of thinkers clearly don't understand statistics. A quick search on Rivals reveals that over the past 5 years, 50% of the top 10 ranked DTs in the nation go to either SEC schools or FSU (more on why FSU is included later). And yet pro style QB's, a critical position that in itself can transform a team, have a less than 25% rate of heading to the SEC or FSU. If the SEC is simply landing all these DTs b/c of their success, why are they not displaying the same rate of success with pro style QBs???? These teams in fact adopt offensive systems specifically built bc of their inability to recruit this type of QB. Let's go back to FSU: they have cleaned up on the DL for years. And yet they cannot recruit OL or a legit pro style QB for ****. And here's why: bc when recruiter X isn't going to walk into the middle class home of the Olsen's and offer them cash for their son. But that single parent food stamp mom whose son is a mean DT is EASILY bought. It's a testament to our HC that he understands this game, and as such has absolutely cleaned up at QB and OL recruiting (two positions that most often come from higher education/income families). It also explains why we have had such tremendous difficulty in landing DTs.

orrrrr it could be that most of the top teams in the SEC besides Bama doesn't run a pro style offense (and Bama has no problem attracting top QB's). LSU ran a multiple offense the last few years, tex am enough said, Florida just switched to a more pro style offense and Driskel was #1 DT QB his year and they have will grier who is a top 5 DT QB. Georgia runs a pro style and gets high ranked Qb's as well. south carolina runs a spread as well. you also fail to mention that the SEC gets plenty of top Dual threat Qb's. you are kidding yourself if you think that the SEC profile and winning 7 consecutive championships doesn't make an impression on kids. Is it the only factor? no but if u have two schools that are pretty even playing in the SEC vs another conference can push them over the top. its not about the SEC its about winning and they win championships

With the exception of MSU, there are no more option offenses in the SEC. If the recruiting of DTs is simply b/c they have been winning, why wouldn't this apply to the EVEN MORE IMPORTANT POSITION??? You cannot buy a middle class kid from NJ. But a dirt poor kid whose mother is on food stamps? It's easy. I'm sure Fadol Brown chose Ole Miss today bc of their rich traditi---- no it's bc of their recent win--- no it's bc of their academic reputa--- no it's bc of their progressive attitude towards african amber--- no it's bc Hugh Freese is a lege---- no it's bc of all the Ole Miss players in the NF---- It is beyond easy to buy kids, and the lower income athlete is an easy target.

are you kidding me Arron Murray, Ryan Mallet, Cam Newton, Tim Tebow, Johnny Manziel, Mcelroy, Driskel,Mettenberger, Tannehill, Jamarcus Russell you got a mix of first round draft picks Heisman winners and top 10 HS prospects

not only that, but are there no middle-class DT's? All DT's come from ghetto upbringing's and have mom's on the take? ****, what a generalization with racist overtones. the op might legit be the dumbest post i've seen on a message board.

 

[Dghustla]

The head in the sand crowd loves to throw this nonsense excuse as to how the SEC cleans up on certain positions. But these type of thinkers clearly don't understand statistics.

A quick search on Rivals reveals that over the past 5 years, 50% of the top 10 ranked DTs in the nation go to either SEC schools or FSU (more on why FSU is included later).

And yet pro style QB's, a critical position that in itself can transform a team, have a less than 25% rate of heading to the SEC or FSU.

If the SEC is simply landing all these DTs b/c of their success, why are they not displaying the same rate of success with pro style QBs???? These teams in fact adopt offensive systems specifically built bc of their inability to recruit this type of QB.

Let's go back to FSU: they have cleaned up on the DL for years. And yet they cannot recruit OL or a legit pro style QB for ****.

And here's why: bc when recruiter X isn't going to walk into the middle class home of the Olsen's and offer them cash for their son. But that single parent food stamp mom whose son is a mean DT is EASILY bought.

It's a testament to our HC that he understands this game, and as such has absolutely cleaned up at QB and OL recruiting (two positions that most often come from higher education/income families). It also explains why we have had such tremendous difficulty in landing DTs.

OP you are an idiot. Implying that every single mother on food stamps is easily bought and has no moral compass. Then thinking that middle class families are above the same behavior. Basically your saying that because most pro style QBs are white they don't take money only poor black DTs from the hood take money. It's post like that show why as a country we can only make progress in baby steps. And then thinking that we can't land DTs because we aren't paying for them is even dumber.

Recruits are like Indingous live stock to a region. We always have speed players, big 10 always has big olinemen, the south has big athletic dlineman. Most HS in the south focus on athletic ability over skill. And if u you look at recruiting ranking very few pro style QBs come from the south. Which means that pro-style QBs come from areas where their allegence is to other programs and conferences. For as good as Alabama is they have a hard time convincing kids to leave Cali or the NE to come live in a small country town. Big 10 teams rarely have freak Dlineman because its hard to convince a kid from the sun belt to come freeze his *** off for 4 years if he had options closer to home. Studies show that a whooping 80% of recruits will choose to play for a school within a 2 state radius of their home town. If/when Southern HS move towards pro style offenses you will see more top rated pro style QBs going to the SEC. Not because they weren't offered money because they were white and white ppl don't ever need extra money you beeping duche bag.