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Is Keyshawn Smith our best WR

DTP said:
I’ll mention it one more time for the people in the back. The wide receiver rotation is determined by the wide receiver coach. He said it in an interview a few weeks back. He did not trust enough guys to run a 6 man rotation at WR last year. Make of that what you will but considering he just got hired last season, he doesn’t have some weird favoritism ties to any of the guys on the roster. Also, there’s technically three different WR positions in this offense. The x, y and z. Most guys only know/play one position. If Pope and Wiggins were getting a majority of the snaps at x and z, that means that the backups at those two spots either didn’t know their roles or were actually dropping more balls than the guys ahead of them. Also consider the fact that Redding, a redshirt freshman, was the only reserve receiver who wasn’t a true freshman last year. Well, Marshal Few was a junior but I’m talking about scholarship guys. Payton, Smith, Restrepo and Worsham were all true freshmen who not only didn’t have any spring but also had Covid issues. Let’s remember a positive covid test didn’t just mean you can’t play, it means you can’t practice or workout with the team either. So, I can understand why Rob Likens wasn’t exactly comfortable with rolling out a bunch of unprepared true freshmen who had limited practice time for long stretches of games. It’s not PlayStation where every receiver automatically lines up in the right spot and runs the correct route for every play call. You start racking up illegal procedure penalties because a guy doesn’t have his foot on the line of scrimmage or you get costly turnovers because a guy runs the wrong way on an option route and the pass gets intercepted, then the fans start to notice that experience matters.
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Are we playing spot the mistake In the longest paragraph ever? you've got redding (True fresh) and Payton (red shirt fresh) mixed up.
I mentioned it in another thread though, Payton looked and played lost. That was no fluke.

The true freshman could have handled a few plays a week if they were warranted. Other schools find a way. This freshman can't handle college offence/defence scheme seems to be way more problematic at Miami than anywhere else.
 
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DTP said:
I’ll mention it one more time for the people in the back. The wide receiver rotation is determined by the wide receiver coach. He said it in an interview a few weeks back. He did not trust enough guys to run a 6 man rotation at WR last year. Make of that what you will but considering he just got hired last season, he doesn’t have some weird favoritism ties to any of the guys on the roster. Also, there’s technically three different WR positions in this offense. The x, y and z. Most guys only know/play one position. If Pope and Wiggins were getting a majority of the snaps at x and z, that means that the backups at those two spots either didn’t know their roles or were actually dropping more balls than the guys ahead of them. Also consider the fact that Redding, a redshirt freshman, was the only reserve receiver who wasn’t a true freshman last year. Well, Marshal Few was a junior but I’m talking about scholarship guys. Payton, Smith, Restrepo and Worsham were all true freshmen who not only didn’t have any spring but also had Covid issues. Let’s remember a positive covid test didn’t just mean you can’t play, it means you can’t practice or workout with the team either. So, I can understand why Rob Likens wasn’t exactly comfortable with rolling out a bunch of unprepared true freshmen who had limited practice time for long stretches of games. It’s not PlayStation where every receiver automatically lines up in the right spot and runs the correct route for every play call. You start racking up illegal procedure penalties because a guy doesn’t have his foot on the line of scrimmage or you get costly turnovers because a guy runs the wrong way on an option route and the pass gets intercepted, then the fans start to notice that experience matters.
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But the brightest minds on CIS have told me it's all favoritism for seniority. Who am I to believe? Them, or you, who presents a very logical and reasoned explanation?
 
DTP said:
I’ll mention it one more time for the people in the back. The wide receiver rotation is determined by the wide receiver coach. He said it in an interview a few weeks back. He did not trust enough guys to run a 6 man rotation at WR last year. Make of that what you will but considering he just got hired last season, he doesn’t have some weird favoritism ties to any of the guys on the roster. Also, there’s technically three different WR positions in this offense. The x, y and z. Most guys only know/play one position. If Pope and Wiggins were getting a majority of the snaps at x and z, that means that the backups at those two spots either didn’t know their roles or were actually dropping more balls than the guys ahead of them. Also consider the fact that Redding, a redshirt freshman, was the only reserve receiver who wasn’t a true freshman last year. Well, Marshal Few was a junior but I’m talking about scholarship guys. Payton, Smith, Restrepo and Worsham were all true freshmen who not only didn’t have any spring but also had Covid issues. Let’s remember a positive covid test didn’t just mean you can’t play, it means you can’t practice or workout with the team either. So, I can understand why Rob Likens wasn’t exactly comfortable with rolling out a bunch of unprepared true freshmen who had limited practice time for long stretches of games. It’s not PlayStation where every receiver automatically lines up in the right spot and runs the correct route for every play call. You start racking up illegal procedure penalties because a guy doesn’t have his foot on the line of scrimmage or you get costly turnovers because a guy runs the wrong way on an option route and the pass gets intercepted, then the fans start to notice that experience matters.
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THANK YOU!
 
Ecush said:
I don’t post enough here for me to expect you or anyone else to get my posting style so I will explain my post.

I like what I see so far from smith but the sample size is extremely limited. I hope that we eventually get to see more of him so we can see what he is made of. I like the way he moves on his routes. I would describe him as a glider. He never looks like he is running that hard. His movements are very fluid. I think he has a high ceiling.

As far as Manny goes, I like the way he has shown willingness to make changes when necessary, Enos, Baker, etc. whether manny is capable as a head coach is yet to be determined but I don’t think anyone can debate his willingness to do whatever it takes to be in a better position to win.

one thing manny doesn’t seem willing to blow up is that receiver room. I know covid and injuries are factors. But the bottom line is that statistics show Pope and Wiggins are two of the 5 worst wrs in the ACC. Their drop rates are beyond unacceptable. Not once did either get benched. Harley picked up his game as the season went on and he is a nice component to a wr group. In minimal reps both Redding and Smith showed me a little. Yet they never saw the field. If they were not ready the coaches need to have some accountability there. To be honest, the way 6&8 performed I would have rather seen 3 TE sets with Mallory Jordan and Hodges. I’ve seen Hodges catch the ball. It doesn’t matter how fast you are or how open you get if you can’t catch.

I’m not confident we will see a deeper wr rotation than Harley, Rambo, 6&8. I hope I’m wrong but history says that is your rotation getting 90%+ of the reps and if so I’m not happy about it.
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All of this is fine. But do we forget what transpired 2020 off szn? There was a pandemic. Only 4 spring practices before everything was shut down. 0 summer workout sessions as a group. Everyone mostly had to do their own thing. In the fall practices and workout sessions were broken up. During the season it was a mess between contact tracing, guys getting the virus practices being broken up and guys having to miss workouts etc etc...it was not a typical year for freshman that’s why very few played. No to mention your installing a new system..so not only are Freshman needing to adapt to college and the comp but your learning on the fly while going through a pandemic...I say all that to say this: it obviously was a challenging year for any freshman/ younger player who need live reps.

As far as the WR room never getting a shakeup under Diaz, I guess we just ignoring the addition of KJ in 19 leading to a few guys leaving. And now the Addition of Rambo another high quality transfer to add to the room

as fans we ignore the human element. Which is fine because it’s the coach Job to be rational and the fans nature to be irrational. This is not madden or NCAA. These kids do not have overall ratings besides their names. You can’t just swap guys in and out with no consequence. Their is a reason a position coach whose job and rep is on the line in the biz plays the guys he plays. The young kids might not be ready to play in the whole offense etc etc.

These are some the same posters who said Mike Harley shouldn’t be playing and needs to leave mid szn..then the cat has back to back 170 plus games and kills down the stretch. Just this time last year Payton was a All ACC player ready to breakout.

going into 21 everyone in that room has a clean slate. Lashlee has said it’s open szn, Likens said it last szn, Diaz has emphasized that point when asked about that room. So when/if Pope and Wiggins are still in the rotation it will be because their position coach feels they outperformed cats in that room not because he has a favoritism allegiance to kids he didn’t even recruit ..but the consensus on CIS will be its favoritism..again, rational and irrational...and I get it we are fanatics after all. But if we having a football discussion let’s leave the irrational part out of it.

Remember there are 3 different positions within the WR title..X,Y,Z

Redding probably has the most physically gifted upside of anyone in that room. Pope and Wiggins need to be more consistent. Payton needs to get and stay on the field.
Rambo/Harley just needs to be pros and have money szns. X and the young man from Bama need to continue working on their craft I don’t expect much from them this szn but u never know. Fan favorite Keyshawn needs to take over that X spot. Imo opinion that’s what this WR core has missed since AR82. Redding has the tools to do it also..it seems from all the early talk out of camp Key is gonna get every chance to become a mainstay in the rotation
 
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DTP said:
I’ll mention it one more time for the people in the back. The wide receiver rotation is determined by the wide receiver coach. He said it in an interview a few weeks back. He did not trust enough guys to run a 6 man rotation at WR last year. Make of that what you will but considering he just got hired last season, he doesn’t have some weird favoritism ties to any of the guys on the roster. Also, there’s technically three different WR positions in this offense. The x, y and z. Most guys only know/play one position. If Pope and Wiggins were getting a majority of the snaps at x and z, that means that the backups at those two spots either didn’t know their roles or were actually dropping more balls than the guys ahead of them. Also consider the fact that Redding, a redshirt freshman, was the only reserve receiver who wasn’t a true freshman last year. Well, Marshal Few was a junior but I’m talking about scholarship guys. Payton, Smith, Restrepo and Worsham were all true freshmen who not only didn’t have any spring but also had Covid issues. Let’s remember a positive covid test didn’t just mean you can’t play, it means you can’t practice or workout with the team either. So, I can understand why Rob Likens wasn’t exactly comfortable with rolling out a bunch of unprepared true freshmen who had limited practice time for long stretches of games. It’s not PlayStation where every receiver automatically lines up in the right spot and runs the correct route for every play call. You start racking up illegal procedure penalties because a guy doesn’t have his foot on the line of scrimmage or you get costly turnovers because a guy runs the wrong way on an option route and the pass gets intercepted, then the fans start to notice that experience matters.
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It’s maddens and NCAA to most of our fans so put it in the ratings language. Would you start a player with a 40 awareness rating in madden? Most would say no..everything else that goes into a position coaches reason from playbook, game readiness, what happens in practice film meetings etc for playing a certain rotation is ignored..
 
DTP said:
I’ll mention it one more time for the people in the back. The wide receiver rotation is determined by the wide receiver coach. He said it in an interview a few weeks back. He did not trust enough guys to run a 6 man rotation at WR last year. Make of that what you will but considering he just got hired last season, he doesn’t have some weird favoritism ties to any of the guys on the roster. Also, there’s technically three different WR positions in this offense. The x, y and z. Most guys only know/play one position. If Pope and Wiggins were getting a majority of the snaps at x and z, that means that the backups at those two spots either didn’t know their roles or were actually dropping more balls than the guys ahead of them. Also consider the fact that Redding, a redshirt freshman, was the only reserve receiver who wasn’t a true freshman last year. Well, Marshal Few was a junior but I’m talking about scholarship guys. Payton, Smith, Restrepo and Worsham were all true freshmen who not only didn’t have any spring but also had Covid issues. Let’s remember a positive covid test didn’t just mean you can’t play, it means you can’t practice or workout with the team either. So, I can understand why Rob Likens wasn’t exactly comfortable with rolling out a bunch of unprepared true freshmen who had limited practice time for long stretches of games. It’s not PlayStation where every receiver automatically lines up in the right spot and runs the correct route for every play call. You start racking up illegal procedure penalties because a guy doesn’t have his foot on the line of scrimmage or you get costly turnovers because a guy runs the wrong way on an option route and the pass gets intercepted, then the fans start to notice that experience matters.
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Paragraphs, man.
 
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Give me someone who can catch (consistently) and move the sticks. Anything else is a bonus at this point.

If he's the truth, he'll show it in spring ball against Tyrique and Couch.
 
If this ends up being true, then it’s a great sign for our WRs. He definitely has the highest ceiling.
 
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Man, this thread is exposing a lot of people who can't see raw talent right in front of their eyes. Miss me with the young guys not knowing the offense (we run a simple ******* spread) or the coaches not trusting them. If they can't teach this offense in a few weeks/ they trust Pope and Wiggins the most, then we need new coaches. Simple as that.

Top programs find ways to play their good freshman, we need to do the same going forward. Enough with the bull**** excuses.
 
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canesstevealum08 said:
This narrative is mostly based on last year. I'm willing to bet, most guys didn't get reps because of no spring and covid positives. Honestly how do most of us even know they were consistently better than Pope & Wiggins?
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You can find nig9as off the streets playing Sunday flag football after working full shifts better than those two lol. They’re the two worst ones in the ACC. By that logic we had THE WORST wr room in the league and they were (by the ratings) all 4 stars and above except Wiggins and second only to Clemson in blue chip ratio. No way NONE of them are any good.
 
Zmoney said:
Are we playing spot the mistake In the longest paragraph ever? you've got redding (True fresh) and Payton (red shirt fresh) mixed up.
I mentioned it in another thread though, Payton looked and played lost. That was no fluke.

The true freshman could have handled a few plays a week if they were warranted. Other schools find a way. This freshman can't handle college offence/defence scheme seems to be way more problematic at Miami than anywhere else.
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They did play a few plays a week. besides weeks when they had covid.
 
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