Is Dominant Defense a Thing of the Past?

[demcanes26]

no. if u can get 3-4 very good corners, 2 safeties who can cover and tackle, and 8 dl who can come in when subsitute who can all get to qb u can have a dominant d in college.

the thing is u really need to find 3 corners who in 80s would of all been number 1 cb. the nickle guy has to be a chris harris type like the denver broncos use who is quick and fast. then it all comes down to being able to penatrate get pressure with 4 and keeping in lanes so mobile qb's can't just skip away.

also u need a dc unafraid to get after qb's , he has to be willing to at times put his corners on an island and send 5-6 guys at a time. the spread offense has its challenges to stop but it can be done.

so while dominant d isn't thing of the past it will take a team who can get speed everywhere to do it. bama had a great d but a great qb just made them avg. because they don't have that dominant cover corner. and really in today's college u need at least 2 of them against teams like clemson to shut them down.

Thats all?

LOL! What do you think Vern?

Alabama has the best defensive mind in the game in Saban...and what 3 first round picks on the D Line, two linebackers in Ragland, and Reuben FOster who are top draft picks...Secondary with CYrus Jones, Eddie Jackson and Humphrey..5 star CB Tony Brown doesnt even start,,,and they cant stop clemson?? Some offenses some nights just cant be stopped..... On the other hand Alabamas defense has been dominant all year.. but their talent is just ridiculous..last night showed you WIth the right QB in college.. spread offenses cant be stopped.. Best hope is to create turnovers against teams talented as CLemson

Another thing you could do is match speed with speed. Alabama is big and powerful. but it's very hard for a 260 pound lb to run with an 180 pound wr to the edge. Glad we are getting back to the 220 lb that can run.

 

[KevinCaneFace]

Good defenses now only slow the other team down enough for the offense to score more. They no longer dominant a game

 

[FrancisSawyer]

no. if u can get 3-4 very good corners, 2 safeties who can cover and tackle, and 8 dl who can come in when subsitute who can all get to qb u can have a dominant d in college.

the thing is u really need to find 3 corners who in 80s would of all been number 1 cb. the nickle guy has to be a chris harris type like the denver broncos use who is quick and fast. then it all comes down to being able to penatrate get pressure with 4 and keeping in lanes so mobile qb's can't just skip away.

also u need a dc unafraid to get after qb's , he has to be willing to at times put his corners on an island and send 5-6 guys at a time. the spread offense has its challenges to stop but it can be done.

so while dominant d isn't thing of the past it will take a team who can get speed everywhere to do it. bama had a great d but a great qb just made them avg. because they don't have that dominant cover corner. and really in today's college u need at least 2 of them against teams like clemson to shut them down.

Thats all?

LOL! What do you think Vern?

Alabama has the best defensive mind in the game in Saban...and what 3 first round picks on the D Line, two linebackers in Ragland, and Reuben FOster who are top draft picks...Secondary with CYrus Jones, Eddie Jackson and Humphrey..5 star CB Tony Brown doesnt even start,,,and they cant stop clemson?? Some offenses some nights just cant be stopped..... On the other hand Alabamas defense has been dominant all year.. but their talent is just ridiculous..last night showed you WIth the right QB in college.. spread offenses cant be stopped.. Best hope is to create turnovers against teams talented as CLemson

Another thing you could do is match speed with speed. Alabama is big and powerful. but it's very hard for a 260 pound lb to run with an 180 pound wr to the edge. Glad we are getting back to the 220 lb that can run.

Great point and I think speed is a big key. The LB's need to have speed and lateral quickness while being capable in coverage in terms of building a defense capable of dominating spread teams. Basically you would need an entire back seven with the ability to match up man to man in the passing game. You would also need to find away to have one man free to be able to key on QB runs.

 

[FireSwasey]

I think dominant defense is a relative term anyone. Hard to compare eras, but it doesnt really matter. What matters is you having a top defense relative to everyone else.

And Bama has been getting trains run on them by spread teams for years. The hype train about their front seven is almost as bad as the tin man derrick henry. Not a single one of Saban's DL will be an impact pro, way way way too stiff. Saban has had dominant run stopping DL for a decade and very few elite pros to show for it, and zero pass rushing DL. They just all have agents who hype them up while they are still in school.

Saban is brilliant. He demands the SEC disallow up-tempo offenses, and the idiot corches in that conference fall right in line by implementing run first 90's style fullback offenses. Then he uses his 1990s 3-4 defense that excels at stopping 1990's style offenses to win the conference every year.

Once a year when he actually has to play a modern offense he gets his *** handed to him, but then the loss is excused when he shuts out LSU and UF and their phone booth offense and gets a free ticket to the playoffs.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Short memories and typical overreaction. There were 3 playoff games. Alabama shut out Michigan State and Clemson shut out Oklahoma during the second half.

Overall the defensive numbers actually improved this season, compared to recent years. Many of the categories I chart had a modest but consistent hint that defense is actually improving. There were more teams allowing less than 5 yards per play, more teams allowing fewer than 20 points per game, more teams allowing 6.0 yards per pass attempt or less, and so forth.

Alabama had an all time defense in 2011. The subsequent versions have not come close to matching that level, so naturally there is chatter that the spread offenses are Alabama's downfall. I don't think the 2011 defense would have been significantly dented by a spread offense of Clemson's caliber.

Keep in mind that national championship caliber teams typically have excellent pass offense. So while pass defense is the key to getting there it doesn't always mean you'll control the opponent throughout the game. Last season Ohio State beat up on Oregon in the trenches but if you look at total yards allowed it was hardly dominant. College games have so many darn possessions that the yardage and sometimes the points follow along. I love to bet under during the regular season but among elite teams there are so many ways they manufacture points, like Alabama on special teams yesterday.

Clemson twice had the ball and the lead, with opportunity to seize considerable advantage, first at 14-7 and then at 24-21. Alabama's defense stepped up both times, first with an interception and then with a stop in their own territory. IMO, those possessions were the key to the game and the cute offense failed.

 

[KANE]

There will still be good--even great--defenses (relatively), but I doubt we'll see anymore DOMINANT defenses that can shut anybody down.

Unless they change the rules to slow down tempo offenses, I don't expect the pendulum to swing back toward defense. And now that athletic quarterbacks are becoming more adept at passing, defenses get stressed too much.

This^^^!

 

[FrancisSawyer]

I think dominant defense is a relative term anyone. Hard to compare eras, but it doesnt really matter. What matters is you having a top defense relative to everyone else.

And Bama has been getting trains run on them by spread teams for years. The hype train about their front seven is almost as bad as the tin man derrick henry. Not a single one of Saban's DL will be an impact pro, way way way too stiff. Saban has had dominant run stopping DL for a decade and very few elite pros to show for it, and zero pass rushing DL. They just all have agents who hype them up while they are still in school.

Saban is brilliant. He demands the SEC disallow up-tempo offenses, and the idiot corches in that conference fall right in line by implementing run first 90's style fullback offenses. Then he uses his 1990s 3-4 defense that excels at stopping 1990's style offenses to win the conference every year.

Once a year when he actually has to play a modern offense he gets his *** handed to him, but then the loss is excused when he shuts out LSU and UF and their phone booth offense and gets a free ticket to the playoffs.

Good post. I'm curious though as to how the SEC disallows up tempo offenses. I know Saban has complained about it but I didn't know there was anything more to it than that.

 

[jakeman1]

I think dominant defense is a relative term anyone. Hard to compare eras, but it doesnt really matter. What matters is you having a top defense relative to everyone else.

And Bama has been getting trains run on them by spread teams for years. The hype train about their front seven is almost as bad as the tin man derrick henry. Not a single one of Saban's DL will be an impact pro, way way way too stiff. Saban has had dominant run stopping DL for a decade and very few elite pros to show for it, and zero pass rushing DL. They just all have agents who hype them up while they are still in school.

Saban is brilliant. He demands the SEC disallow up-tempo offenses, and the idiot corches in that conference fall right in line by implementing run first 90's style fullback offenses. Then he uses his 1990s 3-4 defense that excels at stopping 1990's style offenses to win the conference every year.

Once a year when he actually has to play a modern offense he gets his *** handed to him, but then the loss is excused when he shuts out LSU and UF and their phone booth offense and gets a free ticket to the playoffs.

Good post. I'm curious though as to how the SEC disallows up tempo offenses. I know Saban has complained about it but I didn't know there was anything more to it than that.

Bret Bielema, how much slower can SEC football get? - SBNation.com

Ole Miss and Auburn seem to have broken through now.

 

[stormsurge]

i saw an OU offense a few years back with Sam Bradford and some really good talent, running spread a lot, scoring 60+ a game with no problems, running and passing, get absolutely stoned by a UF defense in the NC game. Same with Oregon last year with OSU* and Oregon against Auburn.

 

[blackvern]

no. if u can get 3-4 very good corners, 2 safeties who can cover and tackle, and 8 dl who can come in when subsitute who can all get to qb u can have a dominant d in college.

the thing is u really need to find 3 corners who in 80s would of all been number 1 cb. the nickle guy has to be a chris harris type like the denver broncos use who is quick and fast. then it all comes down to being able to penatrate get pressure with 4 and keeping in lanes so mobile qb's can't just skip away.

also u need a dc unafraid to get after qb's , he has to be willing to at times put his corners on an island and send 5-6 guys at a time. the spread offense has its challenges to stop but it can be done.

so while dominant d isn't thing of the past it will take a team who can get speed everywhere to do it. bama had a great d but a great qb just made them avg. because they don't have that dominant cover corner. and really in today's college u need at least 2 of them against teams like clemson to shut them down.

Thats all?

LOL! What do you think Vern?

Alabama has the best defensive mind in the game in Saban...and what 3 first round picks on the D Line, two linebackers in Ragland, and Reuben FOster who are top draft picks...Secondary with CYrus Jones, Eddie Jackson and Humphrey..5 star CB Tony Brown doesnt even start,,,and they cant stop clemson?? Some offenses some nights just cant be stopped..... On the other hand Alabamas defense has been dominant all year.. but their talent is just ridiculous..last night showed you WIth the right QB in college.. spread offenses cant be stopped.. Best hope is to create turnovers against teams talented as CLemson

Another thing you could do is match speed with speed. Alabama is big and powerful. but it's very hard for a 260 pound lb to run with an 180 pound wr to the edge. Glad we are getting back to the 220 lb that can run.

Have you ever seen Reuben Foster run? I guarantee you hes faster or just as fast as every LB we have not named grace... Did you not see that 300 pounder chased down Watson on the two point conversion? Alabama has plenty of team speed on defense

 

[The Franchise]

Dominant defense is a relic of the pre-spread pre-dual threat QB. OL blocking run 5 yards downfield on pass plays also kills defenses.

Great defenses need to get key stops, and force turnovers. You're not going to shut down competent offenses anymore.

The only offenses that get shut down these days are ones that attempt to play in a phone booth and don't stress a defense with a dangerous pass game. You line up in tight sets and attempt to play bully ball against talented defenses like Bama, and you're playing right into their hands.

 

[Coach Macho]

The days of "shut-down" defenses are gone. I don't care how good your defense is, there's gonna be a couple games where you give up yard/points. These spread offenses are predicated on adjustments, they often call plays after you've already set your defense. How do you completely stop an offense that's adjusting on the fly with every move you make?

No matter what front and/or coverage you line-up in they have an option. Show Cover-2, they run the ball or throw down the middle of the field. Show Cover-3, they throw outside hitch or down the seam. Show man, they have an answer for that too.

This is why I've been such an advocate for Miami running the spread. We have to score points with the rest of college football. We're not gonna have a shut-down defense every week. Those days are likely gone.

IMO Defensive Coordinators are going to have to start being innovative. Too many DC's are still stuck in the past. It's gonna take a generation of young, forward thinking DC's to come up in the ranks, just like what has happened with the offensive side of the ball.

Rather than have personnel groupings they're gonna have to assemble a unit of versatile guys that can play all 3 downs. If this means moving to a unit of lighter players that can run, that maybe that's the answer.

I also think DC's need to utilize more single-high coverage against the spread. Most DC's are scared to run single-high against the spread cause it gives up the seams but there's ways around that. IMO you need a symmetrical coverage to properly defend the spread. Two-high coverage is not symmetrical unless you run a true Quarters coverage, in which case you'll have to bump your LB's out so far that only 5 guys will be in the box. (now you'll get pounded in the run game) This is why I utilize Cover-3 with a match principle as my base defense. It gives you adequate coverage in the box and it takes away the seam throws.

The spread offense is reading the defense's alignment/coverage prior to every snap, so IMO disguising and pre-snap movement is extremely important.

 

[Colombie]

With the way the rules are these days it is difficult to have a dominant defense. Players are getting penalized for things they should not be in my humble opinion.

Offenses do not fear defenses anymore, and it is a shame.

That said, Football is a game of constant adjustments and trends. Defensive minds are going to find a way eventually to stop these high power offenses schematically. And it also helps to get the best "dudes" in South Florida personnel wise.

 

[CaneScott]

no. if u can get 3-4 very good corners, 2 safeties who can cover and tackle, and 8 dl who can come in when subsitute who can all get to qb u can have a dominant d in college.

the thing is u really need to find 3 corners who in 80s would of all been number 1 cb. the nickle guy has to be a chris harris type like the denver broncos use who is quick and fast. then it all comes down to being able to penatrate get pressure with 4 and keeping in lanes so mobile qb's can't just skip away.

also u need a dc unafraid to get after qb's , he has to be willing to at times put his corners on an island and send 5-6 guys at a time. the spread offense has its challenges to stop but it can be done.

so while dominant d isn't thing of the past it will take a team who can get speed everywhere to do it. bama had a great d but a great qb just made them avg. because they don't have that dominant cover corner. and really in today's college u need at least 2 of them against teams like clemson to shut them down.

So what youre saying is to do this you would have to have by far the most talented players in the country and great coaching on top of it.

 

[blackvern]

The days of "shut-down" defenses are gone. I don't care how good your defense is, there's gonna be a couple games where you give up yard/points. These spread offenses are predicated on adjustments, they often call plays after you've already set your defense. How do you completely stop an offense that's adjusting on the fly with every move you make?

No matter what front and/or coverage you line-up in they have an option. Show Cover-2, they run the ball or throw down the middle of the field. Show Cover-3, they throw outside hitch or down the seam. Show man, they have an answer for that too.

This is why I've been such an advocate for Miami running the spread. We have to score points with the rest of college football. We're not gonna have a shut-down defense every week. Those days are likely gone.

IMO Defensive Coordinators are going to have to start being innovative. Too many DC's are still stuck in the past. It's gonna take a generation of young, forward thinking DC's to come up in the ranks, just like what has happened with the offensive side of the ball.

Rather than have personnel groupings they're gonna have to assemble a unit of versatile guys that can play all 3 downs. If this means moving to a unit of lighter players that can run, that maybe that's the answer.

I also think DC's need to utilize more single-high coverage against the spread. Most DC's are scared to run single-high against the spread cause it gives up the seams but there's ways around that. IMO you need a symmetrical coverage to properly defend the spread. Two-high coverage is not symmetrical unless you run a true Quarters coverage, in which case you'll have to bump your LB's out so far that only 5 guys will be in the box. (now you'll get pounded in the run game) This is why I utilize Cover-3 with a match principle as my base defense. It gives you adequate coverage in the box and it takes away the seam throws.

The spread offense is reading the defense's alignment/coverage prior to every snap, so IMO disguising and pre-snap movement is extremely important.

I agree..one thing i never understood is having linebackers in on a dime or nickel set....I think there should be safeties or corners at linebacker... its 3rd and 11 they are not going to run the ball for 11 yards...get in more cover guys

 

[Canezum5]

Way too much parity in talent and coaching nowadays. There is no such thing as a dominant defense anymore because its impossible to build a team powerful enough to stop the power running teams and fast enough to handle the spread. You can't have both. Then when you factor in the mental capacity it takes for defensive players to be able to break down both schemes week in and week out and there is no way you can have a dominant defense.

I don't care about nick saban going to coaching clinics and putting corners at safety and all that hooplah. Bama is still big and slow. Their S&c clearly puts more emphasis on strength and size than speed. All their players look big. Even the kid who ran the kickoff back looked like a tank.

 

[Canezum5]

The days of "shut-down" defenses are gone. I don't care how good your defense is, there's gonna be a couple games where you give up yard/points. These spread offenses are predicated on adjustments, they often call plays after you've already set your defense. How do you completely stop an offense that's adjusting on the fly with every move you make?

No matter what front and/or coverage you line-up in they have an option. Show Cover-2, they run the ball or throw down the middle of the field. Show Cover-3, they throw outside hitch or down the seam. Show man, they have an answer for that too.

This is why I've been such an advocate for Miami running the spread. We have to score points with the rest of college football. We're not gonna have a shut-down defense every week. Those days are likely gone.

IMO Defensive Coordinators are going to have to start being innovative. Too many DC's are still stuck in the past. It's gonna take a generation of young, forward thinking DC's to come up in the ranks, just like what has happened with the offensive side of the ball.

Rather than have personnel groupings they're gonna have to assemble a unit of versatile guys that can play all 3 downs. If this means moving to a unit of lighter players that can run, that maybe that's the answer.

I also think DC's need to utilize more single-high coverage against the spread. Most DC's are scared to run single-high against the spread cause it gives up the seams but there's ways around that. IMO you need a symmetrical coverage to properly defend the spread. Two-high coverage is not symmetrical unless you run a true Quarters coverage, in which case you'll have to bump your LB's out so far that only 5 guys will be in the box. (now you'll get pounded in the run game) This is why I utilize Cover-3 with a match principle as my base defense. It gives you adequate coverage in the box and it takes away the seam throws.

The spread offense is reading the defense's alignment/coverage prior to every snap, so IMO disguising and pre-snap movement is extremely important.

Yeah, I've noticed that movement presnap is a nice wrinkle for the defense against the spread.

I also think teams need to get more physical against the slot/seam. Way too often I see soft coverage against the alot wr and Te. Giving them free reign for timed routes

 

[gfer1988]

especially with the way the game is being officiated it makes it make to play good defense.

 

[DTP]

I think the rules changes have more of an impact than offensive trends. Someone earlier stated how many "unstoppable" offenses have been developed over the years only to eventually be thwarted by changes to defenses. Versatility has become a premium on defense these days. No longer are corners only supposed to cover, they have to play against the run and be able to blitz. Run stopping linebackers are dinosaurs. Linemen need to get upfield and play in pass coverage. That's why you see so many teams switching to a 4-2-5 base or the even more popular, 3-3-5 with one linebacker designated "rush" and one DB designated "rover" who actually plays closer to the line on most plays like a traditional linebacker but can lock man coverage or drop into a zone easily. Lining up in a base 4-3 defense plays right into an offense's hands. Offenses use motion, shifts, rule-bending formations and hurry-up all to confuse defenses. If you're just lining up in base defensive formations with pass rush coming from the same place every down, you've all but given up on stopping a team.

One of the drawbacks to the "Air Raid" style offenses we see a lot of now is that the quarterback's throw is almost 100% dependent on pre snap read. Air Raid quarterbacks are almost robots, just following what the program says they have to do. That's why they're dubbed "system quarterbacks" and rarely have success at higher levels where you're actually forced to go through progressions and you're not always going to have an open receiver on every play. Pro QBs often have to throw to a guy who's not open but with the correct pass angle and a receiver's ability to fight for a ball, completions to covered guys are common.

 

[CanesAreAble]

Short memories and typical overreaction. There were 3 playoff games. Alabama shut out Michigan State and Clemson shut out Oklahoma during the second half.

Overall the defensive numbers actually improved this season, compared to recent years. Many of the categories I chart had a modest but consistent hint that defense is actually improving. There were more teams allowing less than 5 yards per play, more teams allowing fewer than 20 points per game, more teams allowing 6.0 yards per pass attempt or less, and so forth.

Alabama had an all time defense in 2011. The subsequent versions have not come close to matching that level, so naturally there is chatter that the spread offenses are Alabama's downfall. I don't think the 2011 defense would have been significantly dented by a spread offense of Clemson's caliber.

Keep in mind that national championship caliber teams typically have excellent pass offense. So while pass defense is the key to getting there it doesn't always mean you'll control the opponent throughout the game. Last season Ohio State beat up on Oregon in the trenches but if you look at total yards allowed it was hardly dominant. College games have so many darn possessions that the yardage and sometimes the points follow along. I love to bet under during the regular season but among elite teams there are so many ways they manufacture points, like Alabama on special teams yesterday.

Clemson twice had the ball and the lead, with opportunity to seize considerable advantage, first at 14-7 and then at 24-21. Alabama's defense stepped up both times, first with an interception and then with a stop in their own territory. IMO, those possessions were the key to the game and the cute offense failed.

I don't think anyone's saying "defense is dead."

However, truly dominant defense is probably dead unless there are significant rules changes.

That 2011 Bama team seems like forever ago. A lot can change in four years. Bama's recruiting hasn't slipped at all, but the defensive performance has steadily declined. Still relatively great, but not the same stifling units.