Is Dominant Defense a Thing of the Past?

[FrancisSawyer]

With the proliferation of the spread offense in college football and what we saw in the National Title game last night I think the question needs to be asked. Is dominant defense a thing of the past? If not then what is the future of college defense and what adjustments/innovations do you see being made now and into the future in order to shut down spread offenses? I would like to get some feedback from the defensive gurus on the board and anyone else that has an opinion. What needs to be done for defenses to rise again?

Discuss......

 

[kalinis]

no. if u can get 3-4 very good corners, 2 safeties who can cover and tackle, and 8 dl who can come in when subsitute who can all get to qb u can have a dominant d in college.

the thing is u really need to find 3 corners who in 80s would of all been number 1 cb. the nickle guy has to be a chris harris type like the denver broncos use who is quick and fast. then it all comes down to being able to penatrate get pressure with 4 and keeping in lanes so mobile qb's can't just skip away.

also u need a dc unafraid to get after qb's , he has to be willing to at times put his corners on an island and send 5-6 guys at a time. the spread offense has its challenges to stop but it can be done.

so while dominant d isn't thing of the past it will take a team who can get speed everywhere to do it. bama had a great d but a great qb just made them avg. because they don't have that dominant cover corner. and really in today's college u need at least 2 of them against teams like clemson to shut them down.

 

[FrancisSawyer]

no. if u can get 3-4 very good corners, 2 safeties who can cover and tackle, and 8 dl who can come in when subsitute who can all get to qb u can have a dominant d in college.

the thing is u really need to find 3 corners who in 80s would of all been number 1 cb. the nickle guy has to be a chris harris type like the denver broncos use who is quick and fast. then it all comes down to being able to penatrate get pressure with 4 and keeping in lanes so mobile qb's can't just skip away.

also u need a dc unafraid to get after qb's , he has to be willing to at times put his corners on an island and send 5-6 guys at a time. the spread offense has its challenges to stop but it can be done.

so while dominant d isn't thing of the past it will take a team who can get speed everywhere to do it. bama had a great d but a great qb just made them avg. because they don't have that dominant cover corner. and really in today's college u need at least 2 of them against teams like clemson to shut them down.

It would be quite a challenge to build that type of depth and talent but it could be done. I think it's going to be partially a function of innovation and it's going to be a DC who is willing to think outside of the box. I also think that certain positions would have to mutate or evolve in order to tip the balance of power.

 

[blackvern]

no. if u can get 3-4 very good corners, 2 safeties who can cover and tackle, and 8 dl who can come in when subsitute who can all get to qb u can have a dominant d in college.

the thing is u really need to find 3 corners who in 80s would of all been number 1 cb. the nickle guy has to be a chris harris type like the denver broncos use who is quick and fast. then it all comes down to being able to penatrate get pressure with 4 and keeping in lanes so mobile qb's can't just skip away.

also u need a dc unafraid to get after qb's , he has to be willing to at times put his corners on an island and send 5-6 guys at a time. the spread offense has its challenges to stop but it can be done.

so while dominant d isn't thing of the past it will take a team who can get speed everywhere to do it. bama had a great d but a great qb just made them avg. because they don't have that dominant cover corner. and really in today's college u need at least 2 of them against teams like clemson to shut them down.

Thats all?

 

[FrancisSawyer]

no. if u can get 3-4 very good corners, 2 safeties who can cover and tackle, and 8 dl who can come in when subsitute who can all get to qb u can have a dominant d in college.

the thing is u really need to find 3 corners who in 80s would of all been number 1 cb. the nickle guy has to be a chris harris type like the denver broncos use who is quick and fast. then it all comes down to being able to penatrate get pressure with 4 and keeping in lanes so mobile qb's can't just skip away.

also u need a dc unafraid to get after qb's , he has to be willing to at times put his corners on an island and send 5-6 guys at a time. the spread offense has its challenges to stop but it can be done.

so while dominant d isn't thing of the past it will take a team who can get speed everywhere to do it. bama had a great d but a great qb just made them avg. because they don't have that dominant cover corner. and really in today's college u need at least 2 of them against teams like clemson to shut them down.

Thats all?

LOL! What do you think Vern?

 

[skyman]

no. if u can get 3-4 very good corners, 2 safeties who can cover and tackle, and 8 dl who can come in when subsitute who can all get to qb u can have a dominant d in college.

the thing is u really need to find 3 corners who in 80s would of all been number 1 cb. the nickle guy has to be a chris harris type like the denver broncos use who is quick and fast. then it all comes down to being able to penatrate get pressure with 4 and keeping in lanes so mobile qb's can't just skip away.

also u need a dc unafraid to get after qb's , he has to be willing to at times put his corners on an island and send 5-6 guys at a time. the spread offense has its challenges to stop but it can be done.

so while dominant d isn't thing of the past it will take a team who can get speed everywhere to do it. bama had a great d but a great qb just made them avg. because they don't have that dominant cover corner. and really in today's college u need at least 2 of them against teams like clemson to shut them down.

Not sure if this post was tongue in cheek but that is nearly impossible to do, bama with unlimited resources and best coaching still got ripped and had to gamble with onside kick because nick admittedly had no faith in his gassed defense built specifically for this type of offense..

 

[poncho0091]

Keep in mind that the rules of the game, both in the pros and college, have been geared towards providing an offensive advantage. Tacklers have to be more careful than ever or they will get a penalty for brushing their hand across the qbs helmet and their window for tackles has been significantly reduced in a world where the players are so fast now that there is very little room for error.

I don't think it's impossible to have a dominant D, but it's a lot more difficult.

 

[CanesAreAble]

There will still be good--even great--defenses (relatively), but I doubt we'll see anymore DOMINANT defenses that can shut anybody down.

Unless they change the rules to slow down tempo offenses, I don't expect the pendulum to swing back toward defense. And now that athletic quarterbacks are becoming more adept at passing, defenses get stressed too much.

 

[954canelife]

Not really... I will not lie the running quaterback is what is making things seem so difficult. You have everything locked up and then you have a guy who can run for 8-10 to get a first down is hard to stop. Defenses get tired when they could have been off the field.

 

[poncho0091]

no. if u can get 3-4 very good corners, 2 safeties who can cover and tackle, and 8 dl who can come in when subsitute who can all get to qb u can have a dominant d in college.

the thing is u really need to find 3 corners who in 80s would of all been number 1 cb. the nickle guy has to be a chris harris type like the denver broncos use who is quick and fast. then it all comes down to being able to penatrate get pressure with 4 and keeping in lanes so mobile qb's can't just skip away.

also u need a dc unafraid to get after qb's , he has to be willing to at times put his corners on an island and send 5-6 guys at a time. the spread offense has its challenges to stop but it can be done.

so while dominant d isn't thing of the past it will take a team who can get speed everywhere to do it. bama had a great d but a great qb just made them avg. because they don't have that dominant cover corner. and really in today's college u need at least 2 of them against teams like clemson to shut them down.

Not sure if this post was tongue in cheek but that is nearly impossible to do, bama with unlimited resources and best coaching still got ripped and had to gamble with onside kick because nick admittedly had no faith in his gassed defense built specifically for this type of offense..

Saban's defense is not built for that kind of offense. Saban's defense is big and powerful, meant to keep teams from running all over them. Look at the difference between the Mich St game and the Clemson game. Clemson is fast and all about getting the ball to playmakers and letting them do work. Mich St is a more of a grind em out offense. Saban struggles most with offenses like Clemson's, but doesn't see them very often in the SEC.

 

[FrancisSawyer]

no. if u can get 3-4 very good corners, 2 safeties who can cover and tackle, and 8 dl who can come in when subsitute who can all get to qb u can have a dominant d in college.

the thing is u really need to find 3 corners who in 80s would of all been number 1 cb. the nickle guy has to be a chris harris type like the denver broncos use who is quick and fast. then it all comes down to being able to penatrate get pressure with 4 and keeping in lanes so mobile qb's can't just skip away.

also u need a dc unafraid to get after qb's , he has to be willing to at times put his corners on an island and send 5-6 guys at a time. the spread offense has its challenges to stop but it can be done.

so while dominant d isn't thing of the past it will take a team who can get speed everywhere to do it. bama had a great d but a great qb just made them avg. because they don't have that dominant cover corner. and really in today's college u need at least 2 of them against teams like clemson to shut them down.

Not sure if this post was tongue in cheek but that is nearly impossible to do, bama with unlimited resources and best coaching still got ripped and had to gamble with onside kick because nick admittedly had no faith in his gassed defense built specifically for this type of offense..

Sky, yeah I see your point which is why I started thinking about the subject. You have Saban who is one of the best defensive minds in the game andhas 5 star studs all over his defense and Clemson drops 40 on them. The thing about Alabama's scheme is that it's Achilles heel has historically been spread type offenses like Clemson's and TAMU with Manziel. My question is really what can a guy like Saban do going forward in order to fix that? He's going to have to adapt a little to better defend that style. It nearly cost him last night.

 

[robertpaige]

To answer your question succinctly, yes. The game was changed in the past to accomodate more scoring (changing of the shape of the ball), and it has been changed in the present to do the same (handcuffing defensive players in terms of physicality. Which started with Mel Blount and illegal contact, and has extended to ridiculous pass interference and unnecessary roughness/targeting penalties). No one wants to see a game that ends 0-7, or god forbid 0-3.

 

[blackvern]

no. if u can get 3-4 very good corners, 2 safeties who can cover and tackle, and 8 dl who can come in when subsitute who can all get to qb u can have a dominant d in college.

the thing is u really need to find 3 corners who in 80s would of all been number 1 cb. the nickle guy has to be a chris harris type like the denver broncos use who is quick and fast. then it all comes down to being able to penatrate get pressure with 4 and keeping in lanes so mobile qb's can't just skip away.

also u need a dc unafraid to get after qb's , he has to be willing to at times put his corners on an island and send 5-6 guys at a time. the spread offense has its challenges to stop but it can be done.

so while dominant d isn't thing of the past it will take a team who can get speed everywhere to do it. bama had a great d but a great qb just made them avg. because they don't have that dominant cover corner. and really in today's college u need at least 2 of them against teams like clemson to shut them down.

Thats all?

LOL! What do you think Vern?

Alabama has the best defensive mind in the game in Saban...and what 3 first round picks on the D Line, two linebackers in Ragland, and Reuben FOster who are top draft picks...Secondary with CYrus Jones, Eddie Jackson and Humphrey..5 star CB Tony Brown doesnt even start,,,and they cant stop clemson?? Some offenses some nights just cant be stopped..... On the other hand Alabamas defense has been dominant all year.. but their talent is just ridiculous..last night showed you WIth the right QB in college.. spread offenses cant be stopped.. Best hope is to create turnovers against teams talented as CLemson

 

[FrancisSawyer]

To answer your question succinctly, yes. The game was changed in the past to accomodate more scoring (changing of the shape of the ball), and it has been changed in the present to do the same (handcuffing defensive players in terms of physicality). No one wants to see a game that ends 0-7, or god forbid 0-3.

That may be so but....I am a firm believer in necessity being the mother of invention. I think that eventually some genius will devise some type of system to shut these modern offenses down. I think it may take more than just schematics. I think we will probably see some hungry and intelligent up and coming DC do something like change the way we think of certain positions. Certain positions on defense will evolve. Take the recent evolution of the Nickel CB position for example.

 

[robertpaige]

To answer your question succinctly, yes. The game was changed in the past to accomodate more scoring (changing of the shape of the ball), and it has been changed in the present to do the same (handcuffing defensive players in terms of physicality). No one wants to see a game that ends 0-7, or god forbid 0-3.

That may be so but....I am a firm believer in necessity being the mother of invention. I think that eventually some genius will devise some type of system to shut these modern offenses down. I think it may take more than just schematics. I think we will probably see some hungry and intelligent up and coming DC do something like change the way we think of certain positions. Certain positions on defense will evolve. Take the recent evolution of the Nickel CB position for example.

Yes. But at the end of the game... giving offenses around 8-10 possesions per game, if you give up a penalty (say the 15 yard variety of PI or some other personal foul) on one opposing possession, and you are likely to concede at least 3 points. Combine that with the present day offenses which are able to capitalize on mismatches (DEF isn't allowed to sub if OFF doesn't), and you create a recipe for 80 point championship games

 

[skyman]

no. if u can get 3-4 very good corners, 2 safeties who can cover and tackle, and 8 dl who can come in when subsitute who can all get to qb u can have a dominant d in college.

the thing is u really need to find 3 corners who in 80s would of all been number 1 cb. the nickle guy has to be a chris harris type like the denver broncos use who is quick and fast. then it all comes down to being able to penatrate get pressure with 4 and keeping in lanes so mobile qb's can't just skip away.

also u need a dc unafraid to get after qb's , he has to be willing to at times put his corners on an island and send 5-6 guys at a time. the spread offense has its challenges to stop but it can be done.

so while dominant d isn't thing of the past it will take a team who can get speed everywhere to do it. bama had a great d but a great qb just made them avg. because they don't have that dominant cover corner. and really in today's college u need at least 2 of them against teams like clemson to shut them down.

Not sure if this post was tongue in cheek but that is nearly impossible to do, bama with unlimited resources and best coaching still got ripped and had to gamble with onside kick because nick admittedly had no faith in his gassed defense built specifically for this type of offense..

Saban's defense is not built for that kind of offense. Saban's defense is big and powerful, meant to keep teams from running all over them. Look at the difference between the Mich St game and the Clemson game. Clemson is fast and all about getting the ball to playmakers and letting them do work. Mich St is a more of a grind em out offense. Saban struggles most with offenses like Clemson's, but doesn't see them very often in the SEC.

Saban very clearly stated they made detailed changes to adjust to uptempo offenses. Houston's coach opened his doors to saban in offseason where Saban humbly bought his whole staff and then Houston's came to Tuscaloosa, also it has been published multiple times that They had Dlineman drop weight, he recruited more speed rushers, He moved cover corners to safety, he adjusted packages, he had lineman ready to be subbed in and many more adjustments to adjust to uptempo spread offenses. Believe me he wasnt doing all this for pro style guys. Even with all that, still got lit up.

I say that to say even Nick with all resources, all offseason to tinker, with adjustments made, and an endless supply of top flight recruits, the top defensive mind in college ball today cant keep up. Sabans defense is big and powerful and fast and talented, its whatever he wants it to be. Its the best in land and still got lit up

 

[Dwinstitles]

No because bama got there because of there defense

And the superbowl winner will have a defense,how many points msu acored on bama? How many we scored on clemson? Ou lost because clemsons defense, and if offense wins clemson is spose to be morw dynamic and lost

 

[Dwinstitles]

No because bama got there because of there defense

And the superbowl winner will have a defense,how many points msu acored on bama? How many we scored on clemson? Ou lost because clemsons defense, and if offense wins clemson is spose to be morw dynamic and lost

 

[stormsurge]

mane, i'm old enough to remember the veer, the wishbone, the fishbone, the run and shoot, the west coast and a lot of other offenses...there was talk of how a defense could ever stop some or any of these offenses...

eventually someone did

out execute the other side, win individual battles, win the line of scrimmage. the game may look different but it really hasn't changed where it matters.

 

[aelmiami]

I think Bama's defense is the best it will ever be again. Dominant against above average or lesser offenses. But when you play the Baylor, Clemson types it'll be tough to truly shut it down.