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Interesting breakdown of Gattis's redzone calls.

Empirical Cane said:
Whose fault is that?

Gattis?
TVD?
WRs?

Combo of all three on a given play?

I'm inclined to believe more on WRs
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I say a combo of all 3. To run the correct route depending on what the defense gives you needs to be taught and takes IQ that falls on Gattis and the WRs. Not only that but it also takes chemistry, timing and just being on the same page, that needs to be worked on outside of official practice. Therefore, I would put that on TVD and the WRs. TVD needs to be a leader and tell his WRs what they are doing wrong and the WRs need to hold themselves as well as their peers accountable and most importantly Gattis needs to take responsibility for it all. What Gattis is asking the WRs and QBs to do is **** that they do on the pro level, it’s not easy by any means and puts a lot of the responsibilities on the players during the game. They are being taught to make decisions based off what the defense gives them in an extreme short amount of time.

I will also this if he can’t currently do what he wants with the current batch of WRs, then he needs to switch up his concepts until he gets the players he needs.
 
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Yeah been saying route concepts are dookie! Doesn’t challenge vertically VS man coverage at all. Not one fade or corner route VS man smh. He tries to use route combos to get guys open but just clutters stuff because he doesn’t use the whole field.
 
RedSquare said:
From review of the tape, that’s absolutely wrong.

He doesn’t trust the WR’s. You think he bailed off the layered post on the goal line against cover 5 because he doesn’t trust TVD??

That’s nonsense.

I counted at least 8 throws to wideouts (not including drops) where the wrong route or a poor route caused an errant throw.

I also counted several poor decisions and poor throws from TVD he would like to have back.

But the perpetuation of the idea that TVD just somehow became brad kaaya overnight is what makes this board the great amalgamation of retards it continuously proves itself to be.
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If you think TVD demonstrated the ability to reliably read a defense, go through his progressions, and throw an accurate pass THIS YEAR… you are doing a great job of describing yourself.

Trying to blame the WRs for TVD missing reads and missing throws is… something.

WRs were bad. TVD was bad.

Gattis was trying to protect the ball in the redzone because of all of the above. Including TVD playing catch with TAMU (thankfully the int was dropped) on a wheel route… amongst all the other bad throws and bad decisions that day.

Edit: and for all the garbage that came from the WRs last week, at least they didn’t try to kill TVD. Can’t say the same for TVD.
 
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CANEMC said:
Send your suggestions here:

Joshua Tremaine Gattis, Offensive Coordinator

Email: jxg5433@miami.edu
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Did you need this video to tell you WRs couldn't get open? Some of the route combinations and concepts we're putting on film also aren't the way they're designed.. big problem is guys not running it the way it's supposed to be. It's complicated to learn. I don't want to give Gattis an out on that reason because it's his room, his offense, and he's coaching it and installing it.

Only watched a few minutes of it but just like running the post instead of keeping it narrow up the field based on the coverage - I guarantee you it was designed to go up-field and not break off into the post in that situation.

The WRs don't understand the coverages and how to read and run their routes based on what they're seeing. That's why pro-style isn't a good fit. They're running the routes too slow, too fast, wrong, and then not catching it when it comes because they're thinking and they're all thrown off already. Just like the last drop of the game.. he ran the route 2 yards too deep and the ball was already on him and he was late to look up and it hits you in the face mask.

Lashlee was overly simple (to the point it probably ruined the WRs already on the roster) and easier to defend by good teams. Gattis is overly complicated and hard to learn in 8-9 months. We need to find some middle ground. Something that meets in the middle of complexity and tempo

Yes, this is the offense Mario wanted. Power run with pro passing concepts. Until guys are in the system for 2-3 years and we overhaul the talent on the roster it'll look stagnant at times. Or he'll have to change his philosophy and accept something slightly less complex.
 
JayCane20 said:
Did you need this video to tell you WRs couldn't get open? Some of the route combinations and concepts we're putting on film also aren't the way they're designed.. big problem is guys not running it the way it's supposed to be. It's complicated to learn. I don't want to give Gattis an out on that reason because it's his room, his offense, and he's coaching it and installing it.

Only watched a few minutes of it but just like running the post instead of keeping it narrow up the field based on the coverage - I guarantee you it was designed to go up-field and not break off into the post in that situation.

The WRs don't understand the coverages and how to read and run their routes based on what they're seeing. That's why pro-style isn't a good fit. They're running the routes too slow, too fast, wrong, and then not catching it when it comes because they're thinking and they're all thrown off already. Just like the last drop of the game.. he ran the route 2 yards too deep and the ball was already on him and he was late to look up and it hits you in the face mask.

Lashlee was overly simple (to the point it probably ruined the WRs already on the roster) and easier to defend by good teams. Gattis is overly complicated and hard to learn in 8-9 months. We need to find some middle ground. Something that meets in the middle of complexity and tempo

Yes, this is the offense Mario wanted. Power run with pro passing concepts. Until guys are in the system for 2-3 years and we overhaul the talent on the roster it'll look stagnant at times. Or he'll have to change his philosophy and accept something slightly less complex.
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This sounds very familiar. Where have I heard this before?

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As was discussed in another thread, that video points out more player mistakes than actual bad playcalls. Not to say Gattis didn't have some duds, but lots of players not doing their job or not executing.

The lust for Lashlee is mind blowing. He's not that good.
 
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JayCane20 said:
Did you need this video to tell you WRs couldn't get open? Some of the route combinations and concepts we're putting on film also aren't the way they're designed.. big problem is guys not running it the way it's supposed to be. It's complicated to learn. I don't want to give Gattis an out on that reason because it's his room, his offense, and he's coaching it and installing it.

Only watched a few minutes of it but just like running the post instead of keeping it narrow up the field based on the coverage - I guarantee you it was designed to go up-field and not break off into the post in that situation.

The WRs don't understand the coverages and how to read and run their routes based on what they're seeing. That's why pro-style isn't a good fit. They're running the routes too slow, too fast, wrong, and then not catching it when it comes because they're thinking and they're all thrown off already. Just like the last drop of the game.. he ran the route 2 yards too deep and the ball was already on him and he was late to look up and it hits you in the face mask.

Lashlee was overly simple (to the point it probably ruined the WRs already on the roster) and easier to defend by good teams. Gattis is overly complicated and hard to learn in 8-9 months. We need to find some middle ground. Something that meets in the middle of complexity and tempo

Yes, this is the offense Mario wanted. Power run with pro passing concepts. Until guys are in the system for 2-3 years and we overhaul the talent on the roster it'll look stagnant at times. Or he'll have to change his philosophy and accept something slightly less complex.
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Its the reason pro style is extremely difficult to implement with 20 hour week limits in college.. Guys come in with spread and "install" in a week with simple *** routes and such but they get results (Touchdowns).. The nfl love the pro style wr because IF you do have a pro prospect he will already be immersed in the nuance but I would rather score points in college and let the nfl develop those guys themselves than try to teach these guys the ins and outs with limited time..

Hopefully they find some middle ground QUICK..
 
JayCane20 said:
Did you need this video to tell you WRs couldn't get open? Some of the route combinations and concepts we're putting on film also aren't the way they're designed.. big problem is guys not running it the way it's supposed to be. It's complicated to learn. I don't want to give Gattis an out on that reason because it's his room, his offense, and he's coaching it and installing it.

Only watched a few minutes of it but just like running the post instead of keeping it narrow up the field based on the coverage - I guarantee you it was designed to go up-field and not break off into the post in that situation.

The WRs don't understand the coverages and how to read and run their routes based on what they're seeing. That's why pro-style isn't a good fit. They're running the routes too slow, too fast, wrong, and then not catching it when it comes because they're thinking and they're all thrown off already. Just like the last drop of the game.. he ran the route 2 yards too deep and the ball was already on him and he was late to look up and it hits you in the face mask.

Lashlee was overly simple (to the point it probably ruined the WRs already on the roster) and easier to defend by good teams. Gattis is overly complicated and hard to learn in 8-9 months. We need to find some middle ground. Something that meets in the middle of complexity and tempo

Yes, this is the offense Mario wanted. Power run with pro passing concepts. Until guys are in the system for 2-3 years and we overhaul the talent on the roster it'll look stagnant at times. Or he'll have to change his philosophy and accept something slightly less complex.
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Great post (obviously), but it’s understandable that Mario wants to resurrect the NFL pipeline by recruiting AND preparing players to excel at the next level.

I think Mario and Gattis understand the challenges associated with the complexity… and they knew the WR room would be a big problem.

I think they didn’t fully realize/recognize TVD’s limitations… even despite an ESPN article that he didn’t even have a text group with his receivers.
 
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AmherstCane said:
Dude is seriously butthurt.

A couple of the route combos could have been better, but that video also showed a **** good rushing attack and some poor decision, timing, and throws by TVD.

I understand why Gattis turtled in the red zone 2nd half. He didn’t trust TVD.
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Whether you trust TVD or the receivers, you have to go to them as well in order to properly mix up the play calls down there…
 
JayCane20 said:
Did you need this video to tell you WRs couldn't get open? Some of the route combinations and concepts we're putting on film also aren't the way they're designed.. big problem is guys not running it the way it's supposed to be. It's complicated to learn. I don't want to give Gattis an out on that reason because it's his room, his offense, and he's coaching it and installing it.

Only watched a few minutes of it but just like running the post instead of keeping it narrow up the field based on the coverage - I guarantee you it was designed to go up-field and not break off into the post in that situation.

The WRs don't understand the coverages and how to read and run their routes based on what they're seeing. That's why pro-style isn't a good fit. They're running the routes too slow, too fast, wrong, and then not catching it when it comes because they're thinking and they're all thrown off already. Just like the last drop of the game.. he ran the route 2 yards too deep and the ball was already on him and he was late to look up and it hits you in the face mask.

Lashlee was overly simple (to the point it probably ruined the WRs already on the roster) and easier to defend by good teams. Gattis is overly complicated and hard to learn in 8-9 months. We need to find some middle ground. Something that meets in the middle of complexity and tempo

Yes, this is the offense Mario wanted. Power run with pro passing concepts. Until guys are in the system for 2-3 years and we overhaul the talent on the roster it'll look stagnant at times. Or he'll have to change his philosophy and accept something slightly less complex.
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This....
 
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AmherstCane said:
Great post (obviously), but it’s understandable that Mario wants to resurrect the NFL pipeline by recruiting AND preparing players to excel at the next level.

I think Mario and Gattis understand the challenges associated with the complexity… and they knew the WR room would be a big problem.

I think they didn’t fully realize/recognize TVD’s limitations… even despite an ESPN article that he didn’t even have a text group with his receivers.
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Don't think TVD has limitations exactly.. At the very least you're overblowing it. He's obviously uncomfortable in the system just like everyone else but he's capable of making all of the throws.

He *missed* 1 throw to Redding. The go route for Keyshawn isn't high % and he had 2 guys trailing him pretty closely. You're discounting the effect of receivers running plays and being re-routed and not being where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be there.

Imagine you drop back in the pocket with a blind fold on and then take it off after 2.5 seconds and then make a decision.. that's what might as well be happening and you can tell with all of the double clutching and stepping in and out of throws.

Again.. no one is saying a thing about TVD or even Gattis for that matter if Parrish catches his ball, Brashard catches his, and he hits Redding there he's 24/41 for over 300 yards and a TD, maybe 2. Not to mention George tripping over the guy should have been a walk-in TD as well.

Out rushed, out-passed, out-gained, 11 more 1st downs, dominated time of possession. It was a great game-plan and great execution until we got inside the 30 and there were questionable calls. Even with questionable calls.. each drive had a killer.. a penalty that sat us back on one, Knighton tackled by his shoe laces, George tripping over a guy. It comes down to 2 plays for me that sway me from the good game plan to bad - the TVD keeper (terrible) and running it up the middle on 3rd down when the safeties came down. Had 1on1 across the board from the 6 yard line. You have to throw that ball. Other than that.. I can live with everything else.
 
Parkland_Cane said:
Did Gattis spend time with the guys lady? I mean this dude is basically calling the guy a fraud. @JayCane20 great post and spot on imo. There will be a big learning curve moving to pro style and hopefully we can find some middle ground.
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Smith is all Ohio State and obviously had a bone to pick with Gattis from his days at Michigan. Take that into consideration. But he's pretty spot on.. he gave Gattis credit for several good plays. Gave Mario a ton of respect and credit for the run game.

Even when he criticizes Gattis for the route combinations and concepts.. take it with a grain of salt. It may not have been designed that way. No way to know from the outside unless it keeps getting put on tape run that way. Very common early in a regime change and early in the season. Come ACC play.. you can judge it better.

I took a few things from it that you can judge by watching... lack of separation, can't block on the perimeter, and not understanding basic coverages to know when/why/where to run certain routes. Whether we're running it designed that way, guys getting re-routed, or there's a coverage read and option route inside the play.. something isn't right. Not sure where to point blame yet. Simple offenses don't win championships but they deliver quicker success.
 
Almost every play he highlights he picks the wrong issue that caused the play to fail. There were issues on everyone but not all were on the OC.

There are three problems with our Offense...coaching, TVD and WRs. There is no picking one over the others. All need serious work and time.
 
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