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How is Butch Davis not in the UMHOF?

423Hurricane said:
The reason why the “haters” come out of the woodwork is because this topic continually pops up. The Butch slurpers continue their narrative and the “haters” respond with their own amplified narrative because they’re tired of hearing about it. We also continue to hear about Butch because during his tenure was the last time Miami was relevant.

It’s old news. It’s been well over 20 years since all this took place. Maybe if we become relevant again, this Butch nonsense will fade away.
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Sorry, on this one, we are just going to have to disagree.

Nobody STARTS Butch reflections. Occasionally an article comes out, an event happens, and the topic of Butch comes up.

But it is the haters who are non-stop. And right above your post, you had multiple people reminiscing on the good old days of live Butch-hate on Grassy. Let's not forget, certain dopes paid for a banner-plane calling for Butch to be fired. That didn't happen as a "response" to people "saying nice things about Butch" on Grassy.

I realize that certain people on a certain side of an argument are going to act like the other side "started it" and is being unreasonable. But this 30 year argument has ALWAYS originated with the Butch-haters. Always. We just have to be honest and acknowledge that.
 
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puertorricane said:
Are we celebrating conference titles now? Big east titles at that. I thought this was the U where national titles was all we cared about.
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Oh **** off. The UM Sports Hall of Fame is not limited to "coaches who won a national championship".

Butch was great at UM, Butch belongs in the Hall of Fame.

There wouldn't be a "The U - Part 2" without Butch.
 
Cryptical Envelopment said:
I mean, you did a good job explaining why the haters are overreacting on him, but you also illustrate a lot of his warts. In your words:

"Not a perfect coach."

"Novice."

"Second guessed himself."

"Questionable clock management."

"(should have won) in 2000."

Hmmmmmm... His game day coaching cost us, (and him) the 2000 NC IMO. And maybe he cost himself the HOF, right? And let's not forget the bust was on DEFENSE @ Wash. If he isn't a poor game day coach, I'd say he's in. This isn't a +/- on Butch, this is a HALL OF FAME convo. The GOATS. He had his own HOF destiny in his control, and couldn't win the ring. Send him a nice UM watch.
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Let’s play Devil’s advocate;

We view JJ w/ much admiration b/c he won, one title in 1987; but if we look at his ‘84, ‘85, ‘86, & ‘88 seasons, we had some ?able coaching moments in big games there, as well. One can argue that b/c of JJ’s 2nd guessing himself, not pulling the plug on Vinny in ‘86, defense not adjusting in ‘85, going for two instead of one in ‘88, that if ‘87 doesn’t happen, his view would be different.

But that’s not what we say, is it? We say it was Vinny’s fault in ‘85, ‘86, & it was the refs fault in ‘88. That’s b/c the fan base like JJ, so it’s real easy to gloss over other factors, coaching decisions of his that cost us titles in those yrs.

That’s what fans do; they can reason however they want. Facts, circumstances, context, proof, w/e all that be damned if it doesn’t fit their emotional agenda.

So again, Butch will probably never be in the HOF here just b/c of the lack of appreciation of how what he did here, & bad blood.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
Oh **** off. The UM Sports Hall of Fame is not limited to "coaches who won a national championship".

Butch was great at UM, Butch belongs in the Hall of Fame.

There wouldn't be a "The U - Part 2" without Butch.
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He got lucky once, haven't done it again in his career.
He's Kirby Smart without the 2021-22 titles.
 
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AUcane said:
I was on the boards (grassy) back during that time and we used to KILL Butch and his game day decisions. Despite having a staff of stellar coaches, he sucked as a gameday coach.

I think you'll find most people that were around back then all thought this way.
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As mentioned, the board literally flew banners over the OV saying "fire butch." Crowdsourced.
 
Rellyrell said:
Whooo; a lot of dead bodies in this thread. Yikes.

Well lemme tread semi lightly around this ghost town. Lol.

I see there’s a lot of emotional, scorned responses; in turn, a lot of discrediting & irrational thinking, so let’s see if we can get back on track.

The yr was 1995; our decade of dominance came to an unceremonious halt.
-01/01/93: We got thoroughly embarrassed in a Nat’l Title Game that featured our QB sweep all the Nat’l Awards for CFB QBs & the Heisman (Was at that game) throw for 0 TDs & under 50% passing.

-01/01/94: We get absolutely bludgeoned & blanked by THE F’ING ARIZONA FOOTBALL WILDCATS FOR THEIR ONLY NY6 BOWL VICTORY IN SCHOOL’S HISTORY!

-01/01/1995: Up 17-7 in the 3rd & 17-9 deep in the 4th, we lose at our crib 24-17 to our hated rival, Nebraska.

-During the ‘94 season, allegations of a NCAA investigation started swirling around, & as our boy Dennis Erickson decided to skip town while all this chit was happening under his watch, he left The U Undesirable. This is what Butch inherited; he didn’t inherit a Nat’l Championship program like his predecessors in JJ & Erickson. No, he inherited bull chit. Butch wasn’t even our choice to lead this program, but none of our choices wanted to come to the uncertainty that faced us.

Butch wasn’t the perfect coach; he was a novice that second guessed himself, often, early on in his career. His clock mgmt was ?able. He & Coker tried to install an offense that mimicked the Dallas Cowboys, but Erickson didn’t recruit the personnel to fit the scheme. That became evident as the offense scored less than 20 points in 10 of our 23 games from ‘95 - ‘96, yet we went 2-0 in our bowl games after losing 3 in a row. Being a new coach w/ a true cloud over him, to go 17-6 his first two yrs w/ no prior coaching was solid, imo.

The cloud opened up & rained all over the program over the next couple of years; yet, Butch navigated us through all of that, to the point where we should’ve hoisted trophies in both 2000 & 2001.

Him leaving sucked, but let’s be honest; most of us wanted him gone in 1997. Naaaah; fck that…mofos wanted him gone after getting motor boated by East Carolina in 1996!!! Yet, there’s this revisionist history of hating his guts for going to the NFL after 2000 b/c he “lied about staying?” Lol. Listen, I don’t pretend to know all the details, but knowing how JJ was treated b4 leaving to Dallas, I’m going to side w/ the many who have way more intel than I do that have said there was a lack of commitment to Butch, therefore he took the bag.

The irony in this is I see fans telling young men “good luck” after they de-commit from US, & doubling down by stating they don’t blame them for going after a bigger bag (cough, cough Rashada Apologist), yet some of these same ones have been dogmatic in criticizing Butch for securing his future. Lol

U can say he negatively recruited against us; uhhhhhh, his employer was UNC & his job was to secure top recruits to his new employer. U can say “fck him; at FIU his players were flopping against us.” Lol. Uhhhh, how about we should’ve never been down to FIU, period!!

Again, there’s too much irrational, emotional hate towards a guy who was the ONLY ONE who wanted to be here when we had an open investigation & he restored the program.

He’ll probably never in the HOF here b/c like fans, there’s many BOT members who have this same childish, petty like attitude towards the man that put us in a position to win 3 straight, despite a non-committal attitude towards him.
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IDK about Butch's HOF credentials, but if he stays at Miami instead of going to Cleveland, Miami is the team of the 2000s like they were the team of the 80s.
 
Rellyrell said:
Let’s play Devil’s advocate;

We view JJ w/ much admiration b/c he won, one title in 1987; but if we look at his ‘84, ‘85, ‘86, & ‘88 seasons, we had some ?able coaching moments in big games there, as well. One can argue that b/c of JJ’s 2nd guessing himself, not pulling the plug on Vinny in ‘86, defense not adjusting in ‘85, going for two instead of one in ‘88, that if ‘87 doesn’t happen, his view would be different.

But that’s not what we say, is it? We say it was Vinny’s fault in ‘85, ‘86, & it was the refs fault in ‘88. That’s b/c the fan base like JJ, so it’s real easy to gloss over other factors, coaching decisions of his that cost us titles in those yrs.

That’s what fans do; they can reason however they want. Facts, circumstances, context, proof, w/e all that be damned if it doesn’t fit their emotional agenda.

So again, Butch will probably never be in the HOF here just b/c of the lack of appreciation of how what he did here, & bad blood.
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Butch had one 10+ win season at Miami, played in one major bowl, and didn't win the NC with the best talent in CFB in 2000. He left the roster stacked.

Jimmy Johnson had four 10+ win seasons at Miami, played in 5 major bowls in his 5 years, and didn't win the NC with the best talent in CFB in 1986. He also won the National Championship in 1987 and got robbed in 1988. He went 52-9 at UM including 34-2 in his last three years. He won his last ~27 games at home. He left the roster stacked.

You know you're on my CIS Mt Rushmore, homie, but come on, you know Butch and Jimmy hit WAAAAYYYYYY different.
 
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Rellyrell said:
Let’s play Devil’s advocate;

We view JJ w/ much admiration b/c he won, one title in 1987; but if we look at his ‘84, ‘85, ‘86, & ‘88 seasons, we had some ?able coaching moments in big games there, as well. One can argue that b/c of JJ’s 2nd guessing himself, not pulling the plug on Vinny in ‘86, defense not adjusting in ‘85, going for two instead of one in ‘88, that if ‘87 doesn’t happen, his view would be different.

But that’s not what we say, is it? We say it was Vinny’s fault in ‘85, ‘86, & it was the refs fault in ‘88. That’s b/c the fan base like JJ, so it’s real easy to gloss over other factors, coaching decisions of his that cost us titles in those yrs.

That’s what fans do; they can reason however they want. Facts, circumstances, context, proof, w/e all that be damned if it doesn’t fit their emotional agenda.

So again, Butch will probably never be in the HOF here just b/c of the lack of appreciation of how what he did here, & bad blood.
Click to expand...

My friend, we lost in '86 because of Vinny, but 99% of coaches aren't pulling Vinny in that spot in that game. Heisman QB after an undefeated regular season. Yeah, Vinny played bad and threw 5 picks, but I am pretty sure he only through 1 pick in the first half. He was abysmal in the second half, but we were still up 10-7 in the 4th. Under those circumstances, you stick with the horse that got you there. And who is coming in? Geoff (don't call me Gino) Torretta played exclusively in mop up time. And Steve Walsh was a RS Freshman who had completed 1 pass in his college career.

That 1988 game against ND was a referee nightmare. BS Gary fumble / turnover on downs cost UM a 1st and GOAL on the 1 with about 7 minutes left in the 4th. That said, I can understand the thinking that going for 2 was questionable call, and arguably cost us a chance at a Natty. But I firmly believe JJ, as the coach of the hated Miami Hurricanes made the right call. Take the tie and if the rest of the season plays out the same, ND and UM both finish 11-0-1. West Virginia was undefeated in the regular season. I'd bet my left hand it's still ND and WVU in the Orange Bowl, and ND still gets the Natty after they soundly beat WVU. NCAA wasn't going to put us in over ND with the same record or an undefeated WVU.

I agree with that last sentence, though.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Oh **** off. The UM Sports Hall of Fame is not limited to "coaches who won a national championship".

Butch was great at UM, Butch belongs in the Hall of Fame.

There wouldn't be a "The U - Part 2" without Butch.
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Butch is an important part of our history. You can argue that he isnt in because feelings are still hurt but arguing on the merits he doesnt belong is ridiculous.
 
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Cryptical Envelopment said:
Butch had one 10+ win season at Miami, played in one major bowl, and didn't win the NC with the best talent in CFB in 2000. He left the roster stacked.

Jimmy Johnson had four 10+ win seasons at Miami, played in 5 major bowls in his 5 years, and didn't win the NC with the best talent in CFB in 1986. He also won the National Championship in 1987 and got robbed in 1988. He went 52-9 at UM including 34-2 in his last three years. He won his last ~27 games at home. He left the roster stacked.

You know you're on my CIS Mt Rushmore, homie, but come on, you know Butch and Jimmy hit WAAAAYYYYYY different.
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Bro; again, if JJ doesn’t win ‘87 I can promise u he’s looked at differently, despite the 10+ win seasons. Miami fans wanted him gone after ‘84 for goodness sake.

U don’t have to throw out numbers to me, b/c that’s all I know. Lol.

Maybe I would feel all of u guys who ? Butch if he posted a +.700 win % here under normal circumstances. If Butch succeeded JJ and proceeded to go 8-3, 9-3, 5-7, 9-3, 9-4, 11-1, U nor anyone else would have any push back. Unfortunately he didn’t take over for JJ; he took over from D.E & we received one of the harshest penalties in NCAA History, along w/ gross negatively publicity behind it.

I recall Shannon Sharpe defending LBJ after putting up a ridiculous stat line against GSW in the NBA Finals, in a losing effort. Shannon LOVES LBJ, & I heard him rationalize it wasn’t him, he did his part. Well, that would’ve sat well w/ me if he didn’t just bash MJ for losing to Boston in ‘86 despite putting up a record performance & he said what good are those stats when he lost; I only care about W’s & L’s. Do u see the hypocrisy? Now why could Sharpe defend LBJ while trashing MJ? It’s b/c Sharpe is not the biggest fan of MJ so w/e applies to LBJ doesn’t apply to MJ.

When I see Butch discussed, it becomes black & white w/ fans. Those who r still holding grudges love to gloss over facts that he was handed, handed as a 1st time HC. Those who think he’s a gawd love to downplay his game day flaws. Me? I look at it from a 360 pov; I used to be Fck Butch when he went to Cleveland, but as I got older & really diving into our history, I was like Got **** my man was dealt a bad hand.

So I’m not here to change urs or any other opinions of Butch; the only thing I know is he was the architect of the greatest collection of talent in CFB history, did this w/ major sanctions, & righted the ship that was heading in to the deep end of purgatory. For me; he’s alright in my book. What he did at UNC & FIU is of no consequence.
 
puertorricane said:
He got lucky once, haven't done it again in his career.
He's Kirby Smart without the 2021-22 titles.
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Schnellenberger never did it again, he's in the UM Sports Hall of Fame.

Erickson never did it again, he's in the UM Sports Hall of Fame.

Coker never did it again, he's in the UM Sports Hall of Fame.

A lot of you dopes are massive losers who have no idea who is even IN the UM SHOF or who should be in the UM SHOF, but you are going to spit ignorance like clowns because you want to be mopey contrarians.

The UM Sports Hall of Fame has NOTHING to do with a coach's "career" beyond his time at UM. Stop acting like an *******.
 
Rellyrell said:
Bro; again, if JJ doesn’t win ‘87 I can promise u he’s looked at differently, despite the 10+ win seasons. Miami fans wanted him gone after ‘84 for goodness sake.

U don’t have to throw out numbers to me, b/c that’s all I know. Lol.

Maybe I would feel all of u guys who ? Butch if he posted a +.700 win % here under normal circumstances. If Butch succeeded JJ and proceeded to go 8-3, 9-3, 5-7, 9-3, 9-4, 11-1, U nor anyone else would have any push back. Unfortunately he didn’t take over for JJ; he took over from D.E & we received one of the harshest penalties in NCAA History, along w/ gross negatively publicity behind it.

I recall Shannon Sharpe defending LBJ after putting up a ridiculous stat line against GSW in the NBA Finals, in a losing effort. Shannon LOVES LBJ, & I heard him rationalize it wasn’t him, he did his part. Well, that would’ve sat well w/ me if he didn’t just bash MJ for losing to Boston in ‘86 despite putting up a record performance & he said what good are those stats when he lost; I only care about W’s & L’s. Do u see the hypocrisy? Now why could Sharpe defend LBJ while trashing MJ; it’s b/c Sharpe is not the biggest fan of MJ so w/e applies to LBJ doesn’t apply to MJ.

When I see Butch discussed, it becomes black & white w/ fans. Those who r still holding grudges love to gloss over facts that he was handed, handed as a 1st time HC. Those who think he’s a gawd love to downplay his game day flaws. Me? I look at it from a 360 pov; I used to be Fck Butch when he went to Cleveland, but as I got older & really diving into our history, I was like Got **** my man was dealt a bad hand.

So I’m not here to change urs or any other opinions of Butch; the only thing I know is he was the architect of the greatest collection of talent in CFB history, did this w/ major sanctions, & righted the ship that was heading in to the deep end of purgatory. For me; he’s alright in my book. What he did at UNC & FIU is of no consequence.
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If if‘s were a fifth we’d all be drunk.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
Sorry, on this one, we are just going to have to disagree.

Nobody STARTS Butch reflections. Occasionally an article comes out, an event happens, and the topic of Butch comes up.

But it is the haters who are non-stop. And right above your post, you had multiple people reminiscing on the good old days of live Butch-hate on Grassy. Let's not forget, certain dopes paid for a banner-plane calling for Butch to be fired. That didn't happen as a "response" to people "saying nice things about Butch" on Grassy.

I realize that certain people on a certain side of an argument are going to act like the other side "started it" and is being unreasonable. But this 30 year argument has ALWAYS originated with the Butch-haters. Always. We just have to be honest and acknowledge that.
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Starting a thread about whether or not he belongs in the UMHOF isn’t inviting the usual suspects to attack each other? Anyone that’s participated on this site a numbers of years certainly should know that any mention of Butch will elicit reactions from either side.
 
Rellyrell said:
Bro; again, if JJ doesn’t win ‘87 I can promise u he’s looked at differently, despite the 10+ win seasons. Miami fans wanted him gone after ‘84 for goodness sake.

U don’t have to throw out numbers to me, b/c that’s all I know. Lol.

Maybe I would feel all of u guys who ? Butch if he posted a +.700 win % here under normal circumstances. If Butch succeeded JJ and proceeded to go 8-3, 9-3, 5-7, 9-3, 9-4, 11-1, U nor anyone else would have any push back. Unfortunately he didn’t take over for JJ; he took over from D.E & we received one of the harshest penalties in NCAA History, along w/ gross negatively publicity behind it.

I recall Shannon Sharpe defending LBJ after putting up a ridiculous stat line against GSW in the NBA Finals, in a losing effort. Shannon LOVES LBJ, & I heard him rationalize it wasn’t him, he did his part. Well, that would’ve sat well w/ me if he didn’t just bash MJ for losing to Boston in ‘86 despite putting up a record performance & he said what good are those stats when he lost; I only care about W’s & L’s. Do u see the hypocrisy? Now why could Sharpe defend LBJ while trashing MJ; it’s b/c Sharpe is not the biggest fan of MJ so w/e applies to LBJ doesn’t apply to MJ.

When I see Butch discussed, it becomes black & white w/ fans. Those who r still holding grudges love to gloss over facts that he was handed, handed as a 1st time HC. Those who think he’s a gawd love to downplay his game day flaws. Me? I look at it from a 360 pov; I used to be Fck Butch when he went to Cleveland, but as I got older & really diving into our history, I was like Got **** my man was dealt a bad hand.

So I’m not here to change urs or any other opinions of Butch; the only thing I know is he was the architect of the greatest collection of talent in CFB history, did this w/ major sanctions, & righted the ship that was heading in to the deep end of purgatory. For me; he’s alright in my book. What he did at UNC & FIU is of no consequence.
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I don't think it's black and white with me at all. I think I'm intellectually honest about him. I am not anti-Butch, I appreciate him for what he was to UM. Right guy at the time, all-time talent guy.

So if Jimmy Johnson doesn't win the 1987 National Championship and get that ring for life he's looked differently? OF COURSE! But he did win the 1987 National Championship, he did get that ring. He's a National Champion, and that hardware is forever. Add in that he had us in the top 1-3 perennially for the final 80% of his tenure, things were humming.

Butch recruited great and left the cupboard full. Jimmy recruited great and left the cupboard full, but also had UM as the dominant program in all of CFB for most of his time, and again, CHAMPION, and all the other accomplishments I previously mentioned.

Come on, mang. :)
 
423Hurricane said:
Starting a thread about whether or not he belongs in the UMHOF isn’t inviting the usual suspects to attack each other? Anyone that’s participated on this site a numbers of years certainly should know that any mention of Butch will elicit reactions from either side.
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You really need to stop.

Do you know what just happened? The NFL HOF inductions were just announced (three UM players who played for Butch were not chosen) and the UM SHOF induction ceremony is coming up shortly.

So this is a natural time period to discuss such things. It's not an "invitation to the usual suspects to attack each other".

To be direct, I notice that you didn't dispute the fact that the Butch-haters have been pulling this crap since the mid-1990s. So don't act like "there's good people on both sides" when one side has been carrying tiki torches and grudges for nearly 30 years.

It's natural to wonder why Butch has been snubbed by the UM Sports Hall of Fame. ****, we inducted Coker AND we fired him.
 
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