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How have we never won the ACC?

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gacaneaddict said:
Well a lot of reasons. One is 2000, 2001, 2002, and 2003 drafts inflate these numbers greatly, and we weren't in the ACC then.

35 total draft picks
19 first round picks

We haven't had good enough QB play, we haven't had good enough WR's, and we haven't had enough quality DL for a good majority of those years. Overall though the administration neglected the football program from a resources standpoint for 20 plus years, and hired too many Head Coaches that weren't quality.

Our Head Coach salaries were typically middle of the pack in the ACC, and our facilities before NIL were severely below standard when that type of stuff was important. It led to uneven recruiting and talent acquisition. We didn't have a first round DL from Vince Wilfork all the way to Greg Rousseau.

We went from Andre Johnson to Phillip Dorsett in WR's drafted first round, and haven't had one in almost a decade.

We went from Dorsey to Kayaa in QB's drafted 7th round to 6th round.
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Great post 🎯
 
jps2344 said:
Some of those teams Duke was on wouldnt have won 5 games if not for him.
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Duke Johnson was awesome but he played with some good talent.

Look at the 2013 team. Flowers, Linder, Feliciano, Seantrel and Isidora were all NFL guys. All three tight ends (Walford, Cleveland, Sandland) made the NFL. Morris hung on a roster, Hurns and Dorsett played a ton of years in the NFL.

Our defense was weaker than the offense (way worse when you consider coaching), but we had a bunch of guys who made the league. Denzel Perryman, Anthony Chickillo, Deon Bush, Rayshawn Jenkins, Ladarius Gunter, Artie Burns, Ufombu Kamalu. Olsen Pierre, Thurston Armbrister, Luther Robinson and Tracy Howard all played in the NFL to varying degrees.
 
This has been looked at from every **** angle.
From a pure football perspective no one can actually give me the reason why every year we’ve lost multiple games to way less talented teams.
Only 2 seasons in 20 years where we’ve won 10 games in the acc.
There is no football excuse anyone can give me on why we’ve been a borderline above 500 team in this conference.

No way do multiple teams have better talent and better coaching and better preparation every season for 20 years.
Especially when all of those teams have recruiting classes in the 30’s or lower, less money being spent on the program, just as much turnover in coaching, and way less draft picks than we do.

And yet everyone believes that for the past 20 years duke and unc and even g5 teams can beat us at home while they also have below 500 seasons because of some coach or coordinator.

Anyone can lose a game to anyone at any time.
Notre dame lost to a bad team last season and made the playoffs.
That’s one game and one season.
But we lose multiple games to shtty teams every **** season for 20 years??!!
This has been way beyond football.
 
DMoney said:
Duke Johnson was awesome but he played with some good talent.

Look at the 2013 team. Flowers, Linder, Feliciano, Seantrel and Isidora were all NFL guys. All three tight ends (Walford, Cleveland, Sandland) made the NFL. Morris hung on a roster, Hurns and Dorsett played a ton of years in the NFL.

Our defense was weaker than the offense (way worse when you consider coaching), but we had a bunch of guys who made the NFL. Denzel Perryman, Anthony Chickillo, Deon Bush, Rayshawn Jenkins, Ladarius Gunter, Artie Burns, Ufombu Kamalu. Olsen Pierre, Thurston Armbrister, Luther Robinson and Tracy Howard all played in the NFL to varying degrees.
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Yes, the line had talent.

I think we still had a bit of a bump when it came to evaluation of our personnel at that point though. I think the proof in that is the lack of big name, overall impactful NFL talent of all those names mentioned.

Don’t think there’s an all decade caliber guy from that entire list.
 
DMoney said:
Duke Johnson was awesome but he played with some good talent.

Look at the 2013 team. Flowers, Linder, Feliciano, Seantrel and Isidora were all NFL guys. All three tight ends (Walford, Cleveland, Sandland) made the NFL. Morris hung on a roster, Hurns and Dorsett played a ton of years in the NFL.

Our defense was weaker than the offense (way worse when you consider coaching), but we had a bunch of guys who made the NFL. Denzel Perryman, Anthony Chickillo, Deon Bush, Rayshawn Jenkins, Ladarius Gunter, Artie Burns, Ufombu Kamalu. Olsen Pierre, Thurston Armbrister, Luther Robinson and Tracy Howard all played in the NFL to varying degrees.
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And the majority of those guys were drafted low or as UDFA, despite being high-level recruits. That indicates a coaching issue.
 
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DMoney said:
Duke Johnson was awesome but he played with some good talent.

Look at the 2013 team. Flowers, Linder, Feliciano, Seantrel and Isidora were all NFL guys. All three tight ends (Walford, Cleveland, Sandland) made the NFL. Morris hung on a roster, Hurns and Dorsett played a ton of years in the NFL.

Our defense was weaker than the offense (way worse when you consider coaching), but we had a bunch of guys who made the NFL. Denzel Perryman, Anthony Chickillo, Deon Bush, Rayshawn Jenkins, Ladarius Gunter, Artie Burns, Ufombu Kamalu. Olsen Pierre, Thurston Armbrister, Luther Robinson and Tracy Howard all played in the NFL to varying degrees.
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Golden should have done better in 2013. He did have to start Jimmy Gaines as a true freshman, and those CBs were atrocious. Breadth and depth of talent were definitely issues. But he underutilized the talent he had. Losing to Duke and getting blown out by Louisville was so frustrating. Dorito defense.
 
DMoney said:
Duke Johnson was awesome but he played with some good talent.

Look at the 2013 team. Flowers, Linder, Feliciano, Seantrel and Isidora were all NFL guys. All three tight ends (Walford, Cleveland, Sandland) made the NFL. Morris hung on a roster, Hurns and Dorsett played a ton of years in the NFL.

Our defense was weaker than the offense (way worse when you consider coaching), but we had a bunch of guys who made the NFL. Denzel Perryman, Anthony Chickillo, Deon Bush, Rayshawn Jenkins, Ladarius Gunter, Artie Burns, Ufombu Kamalu. Olsen Pierre, Thurston Armbrister, Luther Robinson and Tracy Howard all played in the NFL to varying degrees.
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Duke Johnson was incredible, but his teams definitely underperformed. Youre rught - they had a ton of talent.

But here's FSU's record the 3 years Duke played:

2012: 12-2
2013: 14-0
2014: 13-1

Unfortunately, they were just better than us at that time.

But still, those should've been 9-10 wins teams vs the 6-7 wins they were
 
Admin being cheap and thinking they will find another Butch Davis. While the rest of CFB took it serious and invested money while making made better football decisions.
 
This is my copy and pasted answer from a different DAILY DEBATE thread.

Quarterback.

Since 2004, we have started:
Kirby Freeman
Kyle Wright
Robert Marve
Jacory Harris
Stephen Morris
Brad Kaaya
Malik Rosier
N'Kosi Perry
Jarren Williams
D'Eriq King
Tyler Van Dyke
Jake Garcia
Jacurri Brown
Emory Williams
Cam Ward

2004-2023 average: 3031 yards, 58%, 22 TD, 13 int
2013-2023 average: 3228 yards, 59.6%, 24 TD, 11 int

We've had one QB (Kaaya) drafted since Dorsey in 2003.
 
DMoney said:
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What if back in 2001 we hire like we had been. Going out and grabbing an up and comer or an NFL guy. Urban Meyer and Pete Carroll both started in 2001 I think.

Both probably get us the death penalty by like 2008. But they would likely be entertaining years.
 
Money/Being cheap....Once Miami went to the ACC the admin went cheap and stopped investing...We are in the situation we are in now, having to invest in to things that should have already been in place because they didn't want to spend...We're praying for a BIG invite because the admin stopped caring...We havent won anything simply because of the admin...
 
SCarolina Ibis said:
This is my copy and pasted answer from a different DAILY DEBATE thread.

Quarterback.

Since 2004, we have started:
Kirby Freeman
Kyle Wright
Robert Marve
Jacory Harris
Stephen Morris
Brad Kaaya
Malik Rosier
N'Kosi Perry
Jarren Williams
D'Eriq King
Tyler Van Dyke
Jake Garcia
Jacurri Brown
Emory Williams
Cam Ward

2004-2023 average: 3031 yards, 58%, 22 TD, 13 int
2013-2023 average: 3228 yards, 59.6%, 24 TD, 11 int

We've had one QB (Kaaya) drafted since Dorsey in 2003.
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I agree with you point. Harris, Morris, and Kaaya were good enough to win with. Those years Canes couldn't overcome coaching and the talent of other teams.
 
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