How far can Golden and the present staff take us?

[terra99pin]

These threads are tired and pointless. Only thing left to do is see what happens this coming season and hope for the best. If we win 8 or fewer games as many on here are suggesting, then he will officially be on the hot seat and will have a max of one more season after that to turn it around.

Personally I believe we will be in the ACC championship game this season with a final record of 10-4 or 11-3. We won 9 games last year with a roster whose talent was all in the younger classes, and the injury bug hit our top playmakers in the second half of the season. Why would we expect the team to regress? Even if D'Onofrio doesn't improve the D at all, the offense should be deeper and more experienced. Coley was in his first year as OC. It's normal to expect a few bumps in the road, especially going against a defensive mastermind like Charlie Strong. That's a learning experience. I expect his offense to be a lot more consistent this coming year. ****, in spring ball last year he was just trying to figure out what he had to work with on the roster. He and the boys should go into this season with a lot more confidence.

Say what you will about the defense, but let's all at least be optimistic about the offense.

 

[pbcup]

I still have faith in Golden, I'm giving him one more year. I do think we should have won a couple more games over the last couple years, but were we really more talented? Offensively, in most cases, yes. Defensively, I don't think so. Here are the defensive players we signed from 2009-2011, 3 classes, what should have been the heart of our defense the last few years.
DE - Vernon, Chickillo, Green, Dye, Perry, Ricardo Williams
DT - Pierre, Porter, Robinson, Smith, King, Grimble, Jefferey Brown
LB - Perryman, Gaines, Johnson, Armbrister, Cornelious, Paul, Cain, Travis Williams, Kevin Nelson
CB - McGee, Finnie, Keyon Payne, Jamal Reid, Vernon Davis
S - Armstrong, Rogers, Highsmith
JAG is an enourmous compliment for a lot of the players on that list. I added first names on a few of them to save some of you the time of trying to figure out who the **** these people are. We've brought in some young talent, which should lead to an improved defense, hopefully a vastly improved defense. I'll flip my position pretty quickly if I see the same **** next year though.

Sorry but I'm not buying Miami not having enough talent to beat some of the **** poor teams they've lost to over the past 3 years.

Which is why I said, I think we should have won a couple more games over the last couple years. VT was the worst for me, easily the least talented of the 4 loses last year. You can't tell me you could make a good defense out of that though. I understand the concern, I just think he deserves one more year to show me if he's the right one for the job. Remember, people wanted Butch fired too. I may switch sides pretty quickly come September, but for now I'm behind Golden

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

What is there to be optimistic about concerning the offense?

If I, an idiot accountant that doesn't do this for a living, can sit on my couch and notice that 90% of the time Malcom Lewis is in the game we are running the ball...then what the **** do you think good defensive coordinators who do this for a living notice?

I'd argue Coley is as big a problem as the idiots currently constructing our defense....the problem is Coley is a good recruiter so we kinda have to eat it. Nevertheless, it's not a ideal situation.

The offense is predictable as **** and has tendencies all over the place. Run on first down, run on second down, sprinkle in a play action with a deep post or 9 route. That's our offense.

No slants, no drags, no seam routes, no intermediate digs...and for the love of all sanity...I think we ran 2 or 3 screen passes to Duke all season before he got hurt.

It's a disgrace...it's a mismanagement of talent....and it's an offense that simply doesn't give itself a chance to sustain drives by working the middle of the field. It's garbage in it's purest form.

And don't give me the Stephen Morris excuse...those routes I mentioned above were not PRESENT in the route combination on most plays. And if the staff really felt that MOrris was incapable of using the middle of the field and any of these aforementioned routes...then they are idiots for not going with Williams or trying something else.

Not gonna quote our homeboy from ESPN...but at the end of the day you do play to win these ******* games, or at least give yourself the best opportunity to do so.

Both our coordinators are garbage. We're playing checkers while our opponents are playing chess.

 

[terra99pin]

Bottom line? And I swear to you this hurts me deeply as a Canes fan through and through, but Al Golden will NEVER beat Jimbo Fisher. Its just not going to happen. They are going to go on a run in this series that is going to be shameful

Funny to use Jimbo Fisher as an example here. I present to you the 2011 FSU football season results. Eerily similar to our result this year, don't you think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Florida_State_Seminoles_football_team

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

Jimbo's defense was never torn to shreds to the tune of 3700 yards over a 7 game stretch the way ours was. That's the biggest difference...every program goes through down periods but when the philosphy and scheme are completely ****ed up, it points to something else entirely.

And another thing...even when FSU was underperforming they were still bringing in ridiculous recruiting classes.

For as bad a gameday coach as Golden is, he needs to have GREAT classes in order to compensate. "Good" or "above average" classes, like the ones we've had, are not going to cut it.

 

[eurocane]

After the Rustled Bowl if you think Golden can win more than 9 games throwing in 10 wins once a decade you are delusional. Bad HC, bad defense, bad preparation, poorly motivated, etc. Everything that can be wrong with a program is wrong with ours on the football field.

The RAB should have proven just how bad Golden is as a coach. He cried about those extra 15 practices, got them and still got blown out. Tells you all you need to know.

Sth. hopeful inside of me likes to think that Golden is the guy who brings us back, however I have to state that you summed up perfecty what the pessimistic side in me tends to believe. No improvement and players that don't have a clue what to do is the impression that I have of the current state of the program. The Louisville game was hot isht. Embarassing.

Those extra practices *shake my head, **** did you have to bring that isht up again? *depressing

I hope you are wrong, though.

 

[terra99pin]

What is there to be optimistic about concerning the offense?

If I, an idiot accountant that doesn't do this for a living, can sit on my couch and notice that 90% of the time Malcom Lewis is in the game we are running the ball...then what the **** do you think good defensive coordinators who do this for a living notice?

I'd argue Coley is as big a problem as the idiots currently constructing our defense....the problem is Coley is a good recruiter so we kinda have to eat it. Nevertheless, it's not a ideal situation.

The offense is predictable as **** and has tendencies all over the place. Run on first down, run on second down, sprinkle in a play action with a deep post or 9 route. That's our offense.

No slants, no drags, no seam routes, no intermediate digs...and for the love of all sanity...I think we ran 2 or 3 screen passes to Duke all season before he got hurt.

It's a disgrace...it's a mismanagement of talent....and it's an offense that simply doesn't give itself a chance to sustain drives by working the middle of the field. It's garbage in it's purest form.

And don't give me the Stephen Morris excuse...those routes I mentioned above were not PRESENT in the route combination on most plays. And if the staff really felt that MOrris was incapable of using the middle of the field and any of these aforementioned routes...then they are idiots for not going with Williams or trying something else.

Not gonna quote our homeboy from ESPN...but at the end of the day you do play to win these ****ing games, or at least give yourself the best opportunity to do so.

Both our coordinators are garbage. We're playing checkers while our opponents are playing chess.

Yawn. Instead of your amateur observations that are impossible to prove or disprove on a message board, let's look at some objective ratings. Football outsiders is the best statistical database for college football that I know of. They use two main measures to rank offensive performance-- S&P+, and FEI.

For S&P+ we ranked 5th.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaoff

For FEI we ranked 14th.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feioff2013

Look at the other teams on the top of the lists. These are legitimate ranking tools. They also pull out games against non-FBS teams (so no Savannah St) and garbage time possessions.

We did this while dealing with injuries to our best playmakers with a brand new OC. Your point about Malcolm Lewis further proves this. He wouldn't have been on the field if it weren't for injuries to Doreset and Waters.

So yes, I think there is plenty of reason to be optimistic.

 

[CanesFan93]

Bottom line? And I swear to you this hurts me deeply as a Canes fan through and through, but Al Golden will NEVER beat Jimbo Fisher. Its just not going to happen. They are going to go on a run in this series that is going to be shameful

Funny to use Jimbo Fisher as an example here. I present to you the 2011 FSU football season results. Eerily similar to our result this year, don't you think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Florida_State_Seminoles_football_team

Record-wise, yes. The results? Not so much. FSU lost to the #1 team by 10, lost to the #21 team by 5 with a backup QB, and lost to WF the following week. Not to mention they had Jenkins, Carradine, Bradham, and Rhodes on defense, that trumps anything we've had in the past years.

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

Bottom line? And I swear to you this hurts me deeply as a Canes fan through and through, but Al Golden will NEVER beat Jimbo Fisher. Its just not going to happen. They are going to go on a run in this series that is going to be shameful

Funny to use Jimbo Fisher as an example here. I present to you the 2011 FSU football season results. Eerily similar to our result this year, don't you think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Florida_State_Seminoles_football_team

Eerily similar? Not. They lost three games in the beginning of the year, 2 of them being ranked and only lost 1 of their last 8 games. They finished the season with a bowl win over Notre Dame.

I would say that is nothing like our season, other than the win total.

edit: and they didn't get blown out in any of their losses either

 

[terra99pin]

Bottom line? And I swear to you this hurts me deeply as a Canes fan through and through, but Al Golden will NEVER beat Jimbo Fisher. Its just not going to happen. They are going to go on a run in this series that is going to be shameful

Funny to use Jimbo Fisher as an example here. I present to you the 2011 FSU football season results. Eerily similar to our result this year, don't you think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Florida_State_Seminoles_football_team

Record-wise, yes. The results? Not so much. FSU lost to the #1 team by 10, lost to the #21 team by 5 with a backup QB, and lost to WF the following week. Not to mention they had Jenkins, Carradine, Bradham, and Rhodes on defense, that trumps anything we've had in the past years.

Come on. That was a really underwhelming season for them. Fine, if you want to compare the seasons, let's do it fairly. The fact that OU was #1 when they played them was meaningless. They finished 10-3 and went to the Insight Bowl. And how many ranked teams did FSU manage to beat? ZERO.

How many Bradhams, Carradines and Rhodes' did Golden inherit on defense? How is that an argument to use AGAINST Golden?

All I'm saying is that it's funny to talk about how Golden will never beat Fisher when Fisher was in the EXACT same position 2 years ago, and now he's a national champ.

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

What is there to be optimistic about concerning the offense?

If I, an idiot accountant that doesn't do this for a living, can sit on my couch and notice that 90% of the time Malcom Lewis is in the game we are running the ball...then what the **** do you think good defensive coordinators who do this for a living notice?

I'd argue Coley is as big a problem as the idiots currently constructing our defense....the problem is Coley is a good recruiter so we kinda have to eat it. Nevertheless, it's not a ideal situation.

The offense is predictable as **** and has tendencies all over the place. Run on first down, run on second down, sprinkle in a play action with a deep post or 9 route. That's our offense.

No slants, no drags, no seam routes, no intermediate digs...and for the love of all sanity...I think we ran 2 or 3 screen passes to Duke all season before he got hurt.

It's a disgrace...it's a mismanagement of talent....and it's an offense that simply doesn't give itself a chance to sustain drives by working the middle of the field. It's garbage in it's purest form.

And don't give me the Stephen Morris excuse...those routes I mentioned above were not PRESENT in the route combination on most plays. And if the staff really felt that MOrris was incapable of using the middle of the field and any of these aforementioned routes...then they are idiots for not going with Williams or trying something else.

Not gonna quote our homeboy from ESPN...but at the end of the day you do play to win these ****ing games, or at least give yourself the best opportunity to do so.

Both our coordinators are garbage. We're playing checkers while our opponents are playing chess.

Yawn. Instead of your amateur observations that are impossible to prove or disprove on a message board, let's look at some objective ratings. Football outsiders is the best statistical database for college football that I know of. They use two main measures to rank offensive performance-- S&P+, and FEI.

For S&P+ we ranked 5th.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaoff

For FEI we ranked 14th.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feioff2013

Look at the other teams on the top of the lists. These are legitimate ranking tools. They also pull out games against non-FBS teams (so no Savannah St) and garbage time possessions.

We did this while dealing with injuries to our best playmakers with a brand new OC. Your point about Malcolm Lewis further proves this. He wouldn't have been on the field if it weren't for injuries to Doreset and Waters.

So yes, I think there is plenty of reason to be optimistic.

Impossible to prove? What ******* games were you watching?

Let me tell you something about numbers...if you give me a set of data I'll paint whatever picture you want me to paint. I can tell you this first hand.

Results, that's all that matters. How many points did we score against teams with a pulse. I don't give a rats *** what we did against Bethune Cookman, St Brendans, Lourdes, or whatever other pancakes we had...what did we do in the games that mattered?

We layed a ******* egg, that's what we did.

These Don Bailey Jr disciples are getting out of control. Take your S&P and FEI stats back to fantasyland and continue to bury your head in the sand.

 

[CanesFan93]

Bottom line? And I swear to you this hurts me deeply as a Canes fan through and through, but Al Golden will NEVER beat Jimbo Fisher. Its just not going to happen. They are going to go on a run in this series that is going to be shameful

Funny to use Jimbo Fisher as an example here. I present to you the 2011 FSU football season results. Eerily similar to our result this year, don't you think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Florida_State_Seminoles_football_team

Record-wise, yes. The results? Not so much. FSU lost to the #1 team by 10, lost to the #21 team by 5 with a backup QB, and lost to WF the following week. Not to mention they had Jenkins, Carradine, Bradham, and Rhodes on defense, that trumps anything we've had in the past years.

Come on. That was a really underwhelming season for them. Fine, if you want to compare the seasons, let's do it fairly. The fact that OU was #1 when they played them was meaningless. They finished 10-3 and went to the Insight Bowl. And how many ranked teams did FSU manage to beat? ZERO.

How many Bradhams, Carradines and Rhodes' did Golden inherit on defense? How is that an argument to use AGAINST Golden?

All I'm saying is that it's funny to talk about how Golden will never beat Fisher when Fisher was in the EXACT same position 2 years ago, and now he's a national champ.

Jimbo recruited, not inherited, Carradine and Werner in 2010 and 2011.

Exact same position? 2010 FSU 10-4 and made it to the ACCCG in Fisher's first year.
2010 Miami 7-5 #2 in the Coastal with Golden having to pick up Shannon's scraps in 2011 only to win 6 games with better talent imo.

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

What is there to be optimistic about concerning the offense?

If I, an idiot accountant that doesn't do this for a living, can sit on my couch and notice that 90% of the time Malcom Lewis is in the game we are running the ball...then what the **** do you think good defensive coordinators who do this for a living notice?

I'd argue Coley is as big a problem as the idiots currently constructing our defense....the problem is Coley is a good recruiter so we kinda have to eat it. Nevertheless, it's not a ideal situation.

The offense is predictable as **** and has tendencies all over the place. Run on first down, run on second down, sprinkle in a play action with a deep post or 9 route. That's our offense.

No slants, no drags, no seam routes, no intermediate digs...and for the love of all sanity...I think we ran 2 or 3 screen passes to Duke all season before he got hurt.

It's a disgrace...it's a mismanagement of talent....and it's an offense that simply doesn't give itself a chance to sustain drives by working the middle of the field. It's garbage in it's purest form.

And don't give me the Stephen Morris excuse...those routes I mentioned above were not PRESENT in the route combination on most plays. And if the staff really felt that MOrris was incapable of using the middle of the field and any of these aforementioned routes...then they are idiots for not going with Williams or trying something else.

Not gonna quote our homeboy from ESPN...but at the end of the day you do play to win these ****ing games, or at least give yourself the best opportunity to do so.

Both our coordinators are garbage. We're playing checkers while our opponents are playing chess.

Yawn. Instead of your amateur observations that are impossible to prove or disprove on a message board, let's look at some objective ratings. Football outsiders is the best statistical database for college football that I know of. They use two main measures to rank offensive performance-- S&P+, and FEI.

For S&P+ we ranked 5th.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaoff

For FEI we ranked 14th.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feioff2013

Look at the other teams on the top of the lists. These are legitimate ranking tools. They also pull out games against non-FBS teams (so no Savannah St) and garbage time possessions.

We did this while dealing with injuries to our best playmakers with a brand new OC. Your point about Malcolm Lewis further proves this. He wouldn't have been on the field if it weren't for injuries to Doreset and Waters.

So yes, I think there is plenty of reason to be optimistic.

Impossible to prove? What ******* games were you watching?

Let me tell you something about numbers...if you give me a set of data I'll paint whatever picture you want me to paint. I can tell you this first hand.

Results, that's all that matters. How many points did we score against teams with a pulse. I don't give a rats *** what we did against Bethune Cookman, St Brendans, Lourdes, or whatever other pancakes we had...what did we do in the games that mattered?

We layed a ******* egg, that's what we did.

These Don Bailey Jr disciples are getting out of control. Take your S&P and FEI stats back to fantasyland and continue to bury your head in the sand.

That is what these guys do. Bizarre argument backed by even stranger statistics. You should check out the thread on the WEZ where CaneAlmighty used some obscure statistics showing the DL's total tackles to prove that our DL is an attacking DL.

You'll thank me later for the laughs you will get reading this absurdity: http://westendzone.com/showthread.php?t=73017

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

What is there to be optimistic about concerning the offense?

If I, an idiot accountant that doesn't do this for a living, can sit on my couch and notice that 90% of the time Malcom Lewis is in the game we are running the ball...then what the **** do you think good defensive coordinators who do this for a living notice?

I'd argue Coley is as big a problem as the idiots currently constructing our defense....the problem is Coley is a good recruiter so we kinda have to eat it. Nevertheless, it's not a ideal situation.

The offense is predictable as **** and has tendencies all over the place. Run on first down, run on second down, sprinkle in a play action with a deep post or 9 route. That's our offense.

No slants, no drags, no seam routes, no intermediate digs...and for the love of all sanity...I think we ran 2 or 3 screen passes to Duke all season before he got hurt.

It's a disgrace...it's a mismanagement of talent....and it's an offense that simply doesn't give itself a chance to sustain drives by working the middle of the field. It's garbage in it's purest form.

And don't give me the Stephen Morris excuse...those routes I mentioned above were not PRESENT in the route combination on most plays. And if the staff really felt that MOrris was incapable of using the middle of the field and any of these aforementioned routes...then they are idiots for not going with Williams or trying something else.

Not gonna quote our homeboy from ESPN...but at the end of the day you do play to win these ****ing games, or at least give yourself the best opportunity to do so.

Both our coordinators are garbage. We're playing checkers while our opponents are playing chess.

Yawn. Instead of your amateur observations that are impossible to prove or disprove on a message board, let's look at some objective ratings. Football outsiders is the best statistical database for college football that I know of. They use two main measures to rank offensive performance-- S&P+, and FEI.

For S&P+ we ranked 5th.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaoff

For FEI we ranked 14th.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feioff2013

Look at the other teams on the top of the lists. These are legitimate ranking tools. They also pull out games against non-FBS teams (so no Savannah St) and garbage time possessions.

We did this while dealing with injuries to our best playmakers with a brand new OC. Your point about Malcolm Lewis further proves this. He wouldn't have been on the field if it weren't for injuries to Doreset and Waters.

So yes, I think there is plenty of reason to be optimistic.

Impossible to prove? What ******* games were you watching?

Let me tell you something about numbers...if you give me a set of data I'll paint whatever picture you want me to paint. I can tell you this first hand.

Results, that's all that matters. How many points did we score against teams with a pulse. I don't give a rats *** what we did against Bethune Cookman, St Brendans, Lourdes, or whatever other pancakes we had...what did we do in the games that mattered?

We layed a ******* egg, that's what we did.

These Don Bailey Jr disciples are getting out of control. Take your S&P and FEI stats back to fantasyland and continue to bury your head in the sand.

That is what these guys do. Bizarre argument backed by even stranger statistics. You should check out the thread on the WEZ where CaneAlmighty used some obscure statistics showing the DL's total tackles to prove that our DL is an attacking DL.

You'll thank me later for the laughs you will get reading this absurdity: http://westendzone.com/showthread.php?t=73017

These idiots with these obscure stats are like the last line of defense. It's excuse, after excuse, after excuse, after cloud, after excuse with these Don Bailey Jr. cheerleaders.

We're talking about the same fools who will find some set of data out there that backs up Al's claim that the defense is trending up.

 

[terra99pin]

Guys, our defense was horrible. We lost our top two playmakers midseason. The scouts are now saying that our QB was a complete bonehead who may not even get drafted..

That being the case, how the **** did we win 9 games if our OC mismanaged things so badly? That just doesn't compute. I have no idea whether the defense will ever improve, but I stand by my statement that there are reasons to be optimistic about the offense.

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

Guys, our defense was horrible. We lost our top two playmakers midseason. The scouts are now saying that our QB was a complete bonehead who may not even get drafted..

That being the case, how the **** did we win 9 games if our OC mismanaged things so badly? That just doesn't compute. I have no idea whether the defense will ever improve, but I stand by my statement that there are reasons to be optimistic about the offense.

Because we played a horrible ******* schedule.

You realize the fat guy who you are blindly defending is something like 1-12 in games against teams which finished with greater than 7 wins during his time here correct?

There's no response to that stat....when we play a team with a pulse, we lose. Period.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Jimbo's defense was never torn to shreds to the tune of 3700 yards over a 7 game stretch the way ours was. That's the biggest difference...every program goes through down periods but when the philosphy and scheme are completely ****ed up, it points to something else entirely.

And another thing...even when FSU was underperforming they were still bringing in ridiculous recruiting classes.

For as bad a gameday coach as Golden is, he needs to have GREAT classes in order to compensate. "Good" or "above average" classes, like the ones we've had, are not going to cut it.

But his offenses early on were atrocious. So what's your point?

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

Jimbo's defense was never torn to shreds to the tune of 3700 yards over a 7 game stretch the way ours was. That's the biggest difference...every program goes through down periods but when the philosphy and scheme are completely ****ed up, it points to something else entirely.

And another thing...even when FSU was underperforming they were still bringing in ridiculous recruiting classes.

For as bad a gameday coach as Golden is, he needs to have GREAT classes in order to compensate. "Good" or "above average" classes, like the ones we've had, are not going to cut it.

But his offenses early on were atrocious. So what's your point?

You're telling me that offense was the relative equivalent of 500+ yard games in 7 straight? That would be like an offense that attained less than 200 total yards over the same amount of games.

And to the further the point...our offense was also bad against good competition. There's no leg to stand on in defense of the fat guy.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Guys, our defense was horrible. We lost our top two playmakers midseason. The scouts are now saying that our QB was a complete bonehead who may not even get drafted..

That being the case, how the **** did we win 9 games if our OC mismanaged things so badly? That just doesn't compute. I have no idea whether the defense will ever improve, but I stand by my statement that there are reasons to be optimistic about the offense.

Because we played a horrible ****ing schedule.

You realize the fat guy who you are blindly defending is something like 1-12 in games against teams which finished with greater than 7 wins during his time here correct?

There's no response to that stat....when we play a team with a pulse, we lose. Period.

Golden has a better record vs. Above .500 teams during his 1st 3 years at Miami then Saban during his 1st 3 years and Michigan State and Butch during his 1st 3 years at Miami.
Stats are a bich aren't they?

 

[The Franchise]

After the Rustled Bowl if you think Golden can win more than 9 games throwing in 10 wins once a decade you are delusional. Bad HC, bad defense, bad preparation, poorly motivated, etc. Everything that can be wrong with a program is wrong with ours on the football field.

The RAB should have proven just how bad Golden is as a coach. He cried about those extra 15 practices, got them and still got blown out. Tells you all you need to know.

Worst prepared team in this bowl season, and I watched every bowl game. We were an absolute embarrassment. Hapless. Confused. Unmotivated.

Fat Al should be ashamed. Then what does he do immediately after that embarrassment? Begs like a bytch for another job and winds up blowing up pour recruiting class in the process.