How bad was it?

[JHallCanes]

My thing is the only QB who played for both staffs (Diaz/Mario) is TVD. How did Lashlee have TVD, who threw picks in his offense, looking so good to then just fall apart under Mario/Dawson?

In 21 TVD threw 3 picks in a 1 score loss against UNC and then followed it up going 3-0 in 1 score games throwing 10 TDs 1 INT. Threw the 2 picks against FSU and then finished the season 2-0 with 6 TDS and no ints.

2022 was Gattis and Mario. Don’t even need to discuss it. But then 23 he started hot with Dawson, had the 4 picks against GT but then never recovered. Why is that? Lashlee was able to get him right after the UNC 3 pick game. Why couldn’t Dawson and Mario? Could the same be true with Beck? Yeah Beck had it bad last year. Lot on him, lot on Bobo and the receivers too.

My point being, I see a lot of teams with very very mid QBs. Those teams still perform as well as we do but they also don’t have the RBs, OL, and receivers we do. It seems Mario and Dawson don’t have answers if a player isn’t able to perform at the level they think they should.

I’m with you. Every time we do this blame game thing (not saying you) my brain just goes back to Mario

Not sure if TVD just came back to earth because the film was out? I guess we will never know

Mario coming in and saying TVD would be best served by hiring a guy like Gattis was one of the dumbest decisions he’s made here and that’s saying something. That was clear evidence that he wanted to run a team a certain way, personnel be damned

But ya know “rebuild” and stuff

 

[AtlAtty]

Mario cares about narratives and what’s being pushed by media . Hence why he has such a firm grip on what info gets out and who he speaks with.

Mendoza was the better and more reliable fit but Beck was another big name he pulled from the draft which means attention. He also knows the money numbers although bs help with the narrative. I get drawing attention to your program but he’s fixated on it more than most.

I also think we (UM) were too enamored with 2023 Beck, and were too quick to place all the blame on UGA’s receivers for 2024 Beck.
And having been influenced by the previous UM QB, Mario and Dawson likely felt they could reduce the QB turnovers as they did with Cam because of a good line and receivers.

At the time the strategy was not crazy. But in retrospect, most players are exactly what they show on film, and it’s better to accept who someone is rather than expecting to change the person by changing the circumstance.

 

[AtlAtty]

My thing is the only QB who played for both staffs (Diaz/Mario) is TVD. How did Lashlee have TVD, who threw picks in his offense, looking so good to then just fall apart under Mario/Dawson?

In 21 TVD threw 3 picks in a 1 score loss against UNC and then followed it up going 3-0 in 1 score games throwing 10 TDs 1 INT. Threw the 2 picks against FSU and then finished the season 2-0 with 6 TDS and no ints.

2022 was Gattis and Mario. Don’t even need to discuss it. But then 23 he started hot with Dawson, had the 4 picks against GT but then never recovered. Why is that? Lashlee was able to get him right after the UNC 3 pick game. Why couldn’t Dawson and Mario? Could the same be true with Beck? Yeah Beck had it bad last year. Lot on him, lot on Bobo and the receivers too.

My point being, I see a lot of teams with very very mid QBs. Those teams still perform as well as we do but they also don’t have the RBs, OL, and receivers we do. It seems Mario and Dawson don’t have answers if a player isn’t able to perform at the level they think they should.

I think the dam broke on TVD during the GTech game when they played zone defense almost the entire game. From that point forward, every team did the same thing and achieved a similar result.
As a freshman, and even against teams like TAMU in 2023, most defenses challenged TVD man to man. And he looked really good. But he can’t read a zone defense and once the word was out, he never recovered.

 

[TemplarCane]

I knew Mario wasn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer

I still underestimated him when it came to giving Beck that much money

I didn’t sit around watching UGA games the last few years so I didn’t really know that much about him

He’s pretty awful and as much as I wanna nitpick Dawson or Mirabal or whoever else we are blaming this week…it’s Beck

Beyond that it’s the colossal moron that thought we should pay him 4 mill or whatever it ends up being

The reported $4M is apparently the going rate . Duke paid their portal transfer the same, no? I'd like to see the reported NIL deals for Mendoza, Nico, Mateer, and few other name transfers. In the end, and to be honest, the money does not mean anything to me.

Mateer was the preference I think, but OU was the favorite since they hired Mateer's OC from Washington State. Beck is disappointing after a quick start but the staff's only adjustment is to double-down on the "A-Gap Raid". I'd love to hear from real OCs how they would scheme an offense with this roster.

 

[JHallCanes]

The reported $4M is apparently the going rate . Duke paid their portal transfer the same, no? I'd like to see the reported NIL deals for Mendoza, Nico, Mateer, and few other name transfers. In the end, and to be honest, the money does not mean anything to me.

Mateer was the preference I think, but OU was the favorite since they hired Mateer's OC from Washington State. Beck is disappointing after a quick start but the staff's only adjustment is to double-down on the "A-Gap Raid". I'd love to hear from real OCs how they would scheme an offense with this roster.

Money doesn’t matter to me either but it’s still a matter of getting a return on your investment

If your QB skills don’t match what your offense runs then you’ve made a mistake (like the Gattis TVD vibe)

On defense we landed Scott, Thomas, and Toure in the late portal and they are clear fits for what Heatherman wants to do

To me it feels like the head coach, the OC, and the QB are on different pages and you can’t throw money at a problem like that

 

[TemplarCane]

Money doesn’t matter to me either but it’s still a matter of getting a return on your investment

If your QB skills don’t match what your offense runs then you’ve made a mistake (like the Gattis TVD vibe)

On defense we landed Scott, Thomas, and Toure in the late portal and they are clear fits for what Heatherman wants to do

To me it feels like the head coach, the OC, and the QB are on different pages and you can’t throw money at a problem like that

Oh, I agree. No argument.

Mistakes were made.

 

[Angry Ibis]

I think the dam broke on TVD during the GTech game when they played zone defense almost the entire game. From that point forward, every team did the same thing and achieved a similar result.
As a freshman, and even against teams like TAMU in 2023, most defenses challenged TVD man to man. And he looked really good. But he can’t read a zone defense and once the word was out, he never recovered.

Wasn’t GT terrible against the run that year and instead of us leaning on that, well we decided to keep gunning. They made adjustments ahead of the game and we didn’t adapt. Still should have won. Stole the life out of that season with that moronic decision.

No feel for the game. Pattern continues.

 

[Tinman64]

First half drives

7 plays 20 yards 3:32
10 plays 37 yards 6:09
4 plays 9 yards 1:23
3 plays 6 yards - run run pass punt. 1:28
5 plays 90 yards TD (41 on a tunnel screen) 3:08

The play calling and pace in the first half was atrocious. Keep in mind the 41 yard tunnel screen was on 2nd and 12. I’d like to see a chart on how effective that play has been these last 4 weeks. That’s your call on 2nd and 12? Yeah it hit but to me it’s not a great call. Especially considering we threw the ball downfield (+10 yards)about 2x prior to that call. 29 plays 162 yards in 15:40 TOP. Against one of the worst P4 defenses out there.

2nd half drives

3 plays 78 yards TD (61 yd to Marion, good call) 1:08

9 plays 83 yards TD (good balanced drive, Pringle time) 4:52

4 plays 5 yards 1:28. This was coming off a pick that gave us the ball at their 30. 2 A gap dives and a pass on 3rd and +7. After the previous drive where we moved the ball cleanly with balance, first down throws, outside runs, etc. and we come back with that drive? Terrible

6 plays 15 yards 3:44. Again a terrible series. Slow plodding A gap runs and short check down passes.

5 plays 51 yards TD to Mauigoa. 2:56

There was some belief that we played with more tempo in the second half. Looking at the numbers it was actually the same slow pace, 30+ seconds to get a play in and snap it. To me the numbers don’t lie. Anyone who thinks yesterday somehow solved anything are mistaken. About the only thing we learned yesterday was that we have some skill guys who haven’t seen the field for some reason.

That’s what I see

 

[JHallCanes]

Oh, I agree. No argument.

Mistakes were made.

I grapple with the Dawson stuff

Like I don’t think the guy is Andy Reid or anything but last year when the fans turned on Cam it was him ignoring wide open check downs

So Dawson sucks but there’s always someone open but alright I know Cam was special

Dawson drives me nuts at times but when I rewatch some of these games Beck is missing wide open receivers quite a bit. Either not seeing them or making bad throws

I expected a lot more from him. Not sure how many times I’ve said “wow **** of a throw” this year. Not too many.

 

[SinisterCane]

It’s obvious they don’t trust Beck enough to open up the offense any more than what it is.

A $4 million quarterback that you can’t trust, yikes but was even worse is it we don’t have an offensive staff that can mitigate these quarterback discrepancies.

Once TVD and Beck went sour the staff simply has no answers on how to fix and what’s even more frightening is that they haven’t developed a god**** QB enough to be productive.

We have no teachers on this offensive staff

 

[Tinman64]

Only two plays a D has to scheme against Miami's O...

- A Gap run
- Tunnel screen

I'm surprised we haven't seen a pick 6.

We have 3 games and the dinty Moore beef stew bowl

 

[TemplarCane]

I grapple with the Dawson stuff

Like I don’t think the guy is Andy Reid or anything but last year when the fans turned on Cam it was him ignoring wide open check downs

So Dawson sucks but there’s always someone open but alright I know Cam was special

Dawson drives me nuts at times but when I rewatch some of these games Beck is missing wide open receivers quite a bit. Either not seeing them or making bad throws

I expected a lot more from him. Not sure how many times I’ve said “wow **** of a throw” this year. Not too many.

Beck has made some excellent throws and can spin the ball, but he is not a consistently elite passer. Maybe it's the elbow surgery, maybe not. I never really watched him at UGA.

He misreads defenses when given too much time, and often struggles under pressure. He's somewhere in between. He can he a good QB in the right system and talent around him. He proved that at UGA in 2023.

He does not elevate a team like Cam Ward.

 

[SinisterCane]

He’s the type of QB that significantly limits an offense and what you can accomplish as an OC ..he can’t run at all, sucks at making reads, has accuracy issues, and half the time you’re just hoping he doesn’t throw it to the other team smh that’s why we’ve been so conservative imo, tryna protect our 4 million dollar QB from himself..terrible eval by Dawson/Mario but it was better then rolling with Emory right

Well, it’s their fault for thinking any subpar QB is just gonna be plug and play any behind a good pass protective offensive line

 

[PennsylvaniaCane]

I think the dam broke on TVD during the GTech game when they played zone defense almost the entire game. From that point forward, every team did the same thing and achieved a similar result.
As a freshman, and even against teams like TAMU in 2023, most defenses challenged TVD man to man. And he looked really good. But he can’t read a zone defense and once the word was out, he never recovered.

Eh, I don’t buy the man vs zone argument. Sure GT did some stuff to confuse him but to think in 21 everyone played man and he threw for 3k and 25/6 in 9 games or whatever it was is too simplistic. If you remember he looked terrible his first two outings and much was made of comments in the press how Lashlee worked with him to make his reads easier.

In 22 the offense was a mess but if you recall when they opened it up he threw for like 800 yards in 2 games middle of the season before Mario clamped back down and said not on my watch.

23 he started hot, had a tough first half against GT and next thing we saw was Dawson running condensed sets. I’m not an OC or a QB coach but I gotta imagine it’s an easier read for a QB looking at a ton of space vs 3 receivers and 5 DB/LBs all bunched together? Kind of the same thing we’re doing this year.

 

[AtlAtty]

Eh, I don’t buy the man vs zone argument. Sure GT did some stuff to confuse him but to think in 21 everyone played man and he threw for 3k and 25/6 in 9 games or whatever it was is too simplistic. If you remember he looked terrible his first two outings and much was made of comments in the press how Lashlee worked with him to make his reads easier.

In 22 the offense was a mess but if you recall when they opened it up he threw for like 800 yards in 2 games middle of the season before Mario clamped back down and said not on my watch.

23 he started hot, had a tough first half against GT and next thing we saw was Dawson running condensed sets. I’m not an OC or a QB coach but I gotta imagine it’s an easier read for a QB looking at a ton of space vs 3 receivers and 5 DB/LBs all bunched together? Kind of the same thing we’re doing this year.

I think there is validity to what you wrote, except for the last point about reading defenses. Zone defense requires a QB to anticipate when a receiver is going to be open, often before the receiver is open, because there needs to be precise timing between when the window opens in the defense and the receiver hits that window. Many QB’s are just a half second slow in processing this information, and thereby a half second slow in making the throw. They throw when they see the receiver open, which is too late against a good zone defense.

Man coverage can be more readily seen pre-snap, and then the QB is targeting the best matchup.

I watched the UM v GT game in 2023 with @TheOriginalCane, and if he recalls, I said to him right after the loss that this is problematic more than the loss because it was a script that future opponents would follow to beat TVD. He simply could not anticipate the open windows quickly enough to beat zone coverage.

 

[PennsylvaniaCane]

I think there is validity to what you wrote, except for the last point about reading defenses. Zone defense requires a QB to anticipate when a receiver is going to be open, often before the receiver is open, because there needs to be precise timing between when the window opens in the defense and the receiver hits that window. Many QB’s are just a half second slow in processing this information, and thereby a half second slow in making the throw. They throw when they see the receiver open, which is too late against a good zone defense.

Man coverage can be more readily seen pre-snap, and then the QB is targeting the best matchup.

I watched the UM v GT game in 2023 with @TheOriginalCane, and if he recalls, I said to him right after the loss that this is problematic more than the loss because it was a script that future opponents would follow to beat TVD. He simply could not anticipate the open windows quickly enough to beat zone coverage.

But why didn’t anyone run a zone against him in 21 then? It took a new DC in 23 to unlock that mystery? Yeah reading a zone is different than throwing at man coverage. That said there are plenty of QBs that aren’t great at it but also dont absolutely melt down like he did. A competent OC schemes ways to make it easier. Dawson didn’t have an answer for him and it sure looked like he lost trust in him halfway through the GT game and could never unravel it.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

But why didn’t anyone run a zone against him in 21 then? It took a new DC in 23 to unlock that mystery? Yeah reading a zone is different than throwing at man coverage. That said there are plenty of QBs that aren’t great at it but also dont absolutely melt down like he did. A competent OC schemes ways to make it easier. Dawson didn’t have an answer for him and it sure looked like he lost trust in him halfway through the GT game and could never unravel it.

In 2021, he was playing for the first time. It can be hard to know "what will work and what won't" against a new QB, and there is no guarantee that the "solution" will be good forever, as a young QB can improve his skills with good coaching.

Unfortunately, that was not true with TVD, and once he was figured out AND could not improve his own skillset, the jig was up.

 

[PennsylvaniaCane]

In 2021, he was playing for the first time. It can be hard to know "what will work and what won't" against a new QB, and there is no guarantee that the "solution" will be good forever, as a young QB can improve his skills with good coaching.

Unfortunately, that was not true with TVD, and once he was figured out AND could not improve his own skillset, the jig was up.

But it wasn’t. 9 games in 2021 with less talent than he had in 2023. The OL in 2021 was terrible and the running game along with it. Yet somehow over 9 games as an emergency backup starter he threw for 3k yards and 25/6. No P5 coordinators figured it out?

How about in 2022? Played not bad/not great in the first version of Mario ball the Gattis year. The offense was terrible and didn’t suit his skill set yet through 8 games he threw for just under 2k yards and 64% with 10 TDs and 5 ints. Again not great not terrible. Up until the middle of the season against UNC and VT where they went with more of a spread look and threw the ball a lot. He went for 800+ yards 5 TDs and 1 pick then he got hurt.

2023? Dawson comes in. They run pretty wide open sets up until the game following GT. Van Dyke had 2 bad read picks. The 3rd was just off target 2 steps inside and got picked. There were plenty of examples in that game where he read the defense/zone and delivered good passes. Dawson didn’t have an answer for TVD after that game, lost trust in him and instead went with a freshman who he couldn’t get simple passes set up to get the kid in a rhythm (remember the Clemson and FSU games).

So you’re telling me it took D1 defensive staffs 20 games over 3 seasons to figure out they just need to play zone and he turns into a mess? Sure

 

[Hoyacane1620]

My thing is the only QB who played for both staffs (Diaz/Mario) is TVD. How did Lashlee have TVD, who threw picks in his offense, looking so good to then just fall apart under Mario/Dawson?

In 21 TVD threw 3 picks in a 1 score loss against UNC and then followed it up going 3-0 in 1 score games throwing 10 TDs 1 INT. Threw the 2 picks against FSU and then finished the season 2-0 with 6 TDS and no ints.

2022 was Gattis and Mario. Don’t even need to discuss it. But then 23 he started hot with Dawson, had the 4 picks against GT but then never recovered. Why is that? Lashlee was able to get him right after the UNC 3 pick game. Why couldn’t Dawson and Mario? Could the same be true with Beck? Yeah Beck had it bad last year. Lot on him, lot on Bob
My point being, I see a lot of teams with very very mid QBs. Those teams still perform as well as we do but they also don’t have the RBs, OL, and receivers we do. It seems Mario and Dawson don’t have answers if a player isn’t able to perform at the level they think they should.

They just never adjust. I listen to Dawson talk in these weekly pressers and think I must be over-reacting. Then, the next game comes and my eyes tell me something else.

Beck is a better QB than he has shown or is given credit for. You see it in flashes... That pass on Saturday to Marion for the TD was beautiful. It was something Cam did often but we haven't seen Beck try it much at all. He also scrambled and just "popped" the ball over the defense to Marion on another play. Again, something he can do more often. IDK what the play calls were but what happened was great.

Dawson talks alot about what the defense shows them. How about forcing the defense to react to US. It's so frustrating to watch.

I pray he doesn't put the second page of that play call sheet away for the next game. He absolutely has to come out blazing with something not on tape.

 

[Hoyacane1620]

I think the dam broke on TVD during the GTech game when they played zone defense almost the entire game. From that point forward, every team did the same thing and achieved a similar result.
As a freshman, and even against teams like TAMU in 2023, most defenses challenged TVD man to man. And he looked really good. But he can’t read a zone defense and once the word was out, he never recovered.

He also played hurt for a number of games. Probably shouldn't have been on the field at all for a couple of them but with the QB room having no one capable, he played.