Herb Waters

[The Franchise]

I will always believe that Herb Waters' 2014 season was a hose job by Golden and the coaching staff. There is no reason on this planet that Waters should have been behind Berrios as the slot receiver, to say nothing of WR2 across from Dorsett. Coley was a major zero out there, and we had a guy waiting to step in.

He was in the doghouse, pure and simple.

Anyone who believed Waters didn't get shafted last year is a moron. Same dopes who think Folden just needs a few new assistants to be a winner.

 

[canecountry3]

Don't block don't play. Not a mystery.

 

[lauderdaleballer]

Good post. This is VERY true. We can knock Golden for ALOT of stuff but he brings WRs back from the dead around here.

If seeing what PD is doing right now doesn't motivate Herb, I don't know what to tell him. PD is going to be a top 50 pick and he wasn't on ANYONEs preseason draft radar. He isn't as fast as PD, but he is a better route runner IMO. And he is still a 4.4 guy.

Looking forward to seeing big things from him and Coley.

He brought Hurns and Dorsett back from the dead?

Was referring to Streeter and DJohnson. They didn't do **** under Shannon. Even Hurns had a bigger role under Golden. Dorsett is Goldens guy and is about to be a top 50 pick. (shrugs) Not a bad track record IMO.

But in the midst of those players progressing someone always dropped off... Byrd, Benjamin and Scott... DJohnson would have balled if he was never hurt and even then Golden moved him to defense... The kid threatened to transfer if he didn't get an opportunity back on offense...

travis had a fumbling program but he made big plays. Scott has had injury and off field issues but he is also a kid no one knew of when we signed him so he is not like a laron byrd who was highly regarded

Byrd wasn't a highly heralded player and Benjamin did not have a fumbling problem. Streeter, Hurns and DJ improved but several players took a step back... Byrd, Benji and Scott production dropped off with this staff... I don't call that development... Even this year, PD had a solid season but Coley was terrible...

 

[nycane]

travis benjamin made big plays under both staffs. yes, he did have a fumbling problem and a problem with making bonehead plays. Rashawn Scott never played under the old staff. Byrd underachieved under both.

 

[lauderdaleballer]

Streeter, Davon Johnson, Hurns, Dorsett...All of these guys have taken a big step under Golden's watch.

I'd be surprised if one of Coley, Waters, Scott doesn't emerge in 2015.

Good post. This is VERY true. We can knock Golden for ALOT of stuff but he brings WRs back from the dead around here.

If seeing what PD is doing right now doesn't motivate Herb, I don't know what to tell him. PD is going to be a top 50 pick and he wasn't on ANYONEs preseason draft radar. He isn't as fast as PD, but he is a better route runner IMO. And he is still a 4.4 guy.

Looking forward to seeing big things from him and Coley.

He brought Hurns and Dorsett back from the dead?

Was referring to Streeter and DJohnson. They didn't do **** under Shannon. Even Hurns had a bigger role under Golden. Dorsett is Goldens guy and is about to be a top 50 pick. (shrugs) Not a bad track record IMO.

Dorsett, with all his talent, under-produced here. So, I have no idea where you get that Folden did anything special for him. The guy will be drafted relatively high because of his immense physical talent and because of what he's done AFTER the season. Folden did nothing for him.

Streeter? He is another guy with immense physical gifts, who had one good year.

Hurns? Folden did wonders for him. Where'd he get drafted? Hurns was steady his whole **** career.

What did he do for Stacy Coley last year? How about Herb? Both of those guys had horrible seasons despite playing on a very talented offense with an All-American QB. Will you claim Folden as a hero if both of those guys crawl out from the rubbish he piled on them?

+1000000
Our fans try to credit Al for everything. First it was the combine invites(yet RS went 7-5 and had the most selected players in the 2010 draft). And now they develop great wide outs... Hurns would have balled out if he never got hurt... He became a starter against Duke his freshman year then he got hurt. He was hurt after a promising sophomore and then he was hurt his junior year... All the guy had to do was stay healthy... That was his only hold up, not ability. When RS recruited him they touted him as the best wide out in the state because he could run routes, catch, block and get separation. He was a well-prepared wideout who just got hurt. And Streeter was a physical freak who just came into his own real late.

 

[lauderdaleballer]

travis benjamin made big plays under both staffs. yes, he did have a fumbling problem and a problem with making bonehead plays. Rashawn Scott never played under the old staff. Byrd underachieved under both.

What fumbling problem? He literally made like a couple mistakes with ball security... You're exaggerating his miscues outside of trying to make a play against FSU 2011 and his brain dead performance against OSU 2010 where did he fumble and make bone head plays? Benjamin was misused his last year under this staff... He was relegated to nothing but screen and slants when he should have been used like Galloway running deep outs, posts, streaks and corner routes...

As for Scott I never said he played for the previous just that he had one decent season in 4 years... Now Byrd under achieved... Dude would have been on the all time reception list of this staff didn't shaft him... Dude would have been top 5 in receptions if they played him him his senior year... He would have been top 5 with 30 more receptions... The guy was top 15 in receptions playing practically 3 years... Where do you get he under achieved... He was a consistent sure hand possession wideout here.

 

[User-4525]

You all are acting like Herb didn't play. Yeah, he should have and could have been targeted more.

As far as production as a receiver, he finished 4th behind 3 guys that will be drafted in the 1st 3 rounds in this year's NFL draft (Dorsett, Clive, Duke).

I would rather have Dorsett, Clive, and Duke get targeted on throws over Herb. Next year is a new year with Kaaya, and Herb will get his fair shake.

His production was in very little time. I'm not sure where to find the numbers, but Berrios and Lewis got a considerable amount of snaps more than those of herb

Through a pm I found this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...NMZqBxHAXJaibsbizt0/edit?pli=1#gid=1661342776

Snap count that stopped after the UNC game

Coley: 128
Herb: 181
Berrios: 194
Lewis: 302

 

[well docUmented]

I think herb is the best all around reveiver on the team. He might have been last year as well.

Negged on accident. This new "like" system sucks

 

[emrok]

You all are acting like Herb didn't play. Yeah, he should have and could have been targeted more.

As far as production as a receiver, he finished 4th behind 3 guys that will be drafted in the 1st 3 rounds in this year's NFL draft (Dorsett, Clive, Duke).

I would rather have Dorsett, Clive, and Duke get targeted on throws over Herb. Next year is a new year with Kaaya, and Herb will get his fair shake.

His production was in very little time. I'm not sure where to find the numbers, but Berrios and Lewis got a considerable amount of snaps more than those of herb

Through a pm I found this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...NMZqBxHAXJaibsbizt0/edit?pli=1#gid=1661342776

Snap count that stopped after the UNC game

Coley: 128
Herb: 181
Berrios: 194
Lewis: 302

In 2013 Lewis would only go in on running plays. Snap count can be misleading, which is Golden's specialty.

 

[User-4525]

You all are acting like Herb didn't play. Yeah, he should have and could have been targeted more.

As far as production as a receiver, he finished 4th behind 3 guys that will be drafted in the 1st 3 rounds in this year's NFL draft (Dorsett, Clive, Duke).

I would rather have Dorsett, Clive, and Duke get targeted on throws over Herb. Next year is a new year with Kaaya, and Herb will get his fair shake.

His production was in very little time. I'm not sure where to find the numbers, but Berrios and Lewis got a considerable amount of snaps more than those of herb

Through a pm I found this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...NMZqBxHAXJaibsbizt0/edit?pli=1#gid=1661342776

Snap count that stopped after the UNC game

Coley: 128
Herb: 181
Berrios: 194
Lewis: 302

In 2013 Lewis would only go in on running plays. Snap count can be misleading, which is Golden's specialty.

I remember but even so on passing just off my memory Waters was not on the field as much as others.

 

[nycane]

to me Waters is an NFL talent. When you have a guy coaching wr's who doesnt know how to coach Wr's, a true fresh QB, and a OC and HC who want to run 80% of the plays through Duke, he was not going to reach his potential.

 

[The Franchise]

Good post. This is VERY true. We can knock Golden for ALOT of stuff but he brings WRs back from the dead around here.

If seeing what PD is doing right now doesn't motivate Herb, I don't know what to tell him. PD is going to be a top 50 pick and he wasn't on ANYONEs preseason draft radar. He isn't as fast as PD, but he is a better route runner IMO. And he is still a 4.4 guy.

Looking forward to seeing big things from him and Coley.

He brought Hurns and Dorsett back from the dead?

Was referring to Streeter and DJohnson. They didn't do **** under Shannon. Even Hurns had a bigger role under Golden. Dorsett is Goldens guy and is about to be a top 50 pick. (shrugs) Not a bad track record IMO.

Dorsett, with all his talent, under-produced here. So, I have no idea where you get that Folden did anything special for him. The guy will be drafted relatively high because of his immense physical talent and because of what he's done AFTER the season. Folden did nothing for him.

Streeter? He is another guy with immense physical gifts, who had one good year.

Hurns? Folden did wonders for him. Where'd he get drafted? Hurns was steady his whole **** career.

What did he do for Stacy Coley last year? How about Herb? Both of those guys had horrible seasons despite playing on a very talented offense with an All-American QB. Will you claim Folden as a hero if both of those guys crawl out from the rubbish he piled on them?

+1000000
Our fans try to credit Al for everything. First it was the combine invites(yet RS went 7-5 and had the most selected players in the 2010 draft). And now they develop great wide outs... Hurns would have balled out if he never got hurt... He became a starter against Duke his freshman year then he got hurt. He was hurt after a promising sophomore and then he was hurt his junior year... All the guy had to do was stay healthy... That was his only hold up, not ability. When RS recruited him they touted him as the best wide out in the state because he could run routes, catch, block and get separation. He was a well-prepared wideout who just got hurt. And Streeter was a physical freak who just came into his own real late.

Exactly.

 

[Hurricane23]

Our receiving Core is probably barley above average. Seems like they struggle to get open and catch passes in traffic.

 

[Canesfan1899]

You all are acting like Herb didn't play. Yeah, he should have and could have been targeted more.

As far as production as a receiver, he finished 4th behind 3 guys that will be drafted in the 1st 3 rounds in this year's NFL draft (Dorsett, Clive, Duke).

I would rather have Dorsett, Clive, and Duke get targeted on throws over Herb. Next year is a new year with Kaaya, and Herb will get his fair shake.

His production was in very little time. I'm not sure where to find the numbers, but Berrios and Lewis got a considerable amount of snaps more than those of herb

Through a pm I found this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...NMZqBxHAXJaibsbizt0/edit?pli=1#gid=1661342776

Snap count that stopped after the UNC game

Coley: 128
Herb: 181
Berrios: 194
Lewis: 302

Love Lewis's heart, but there is no way he should have the most snaps of those guys.

 

[Jassid82]

Streeter, Davon Johnson, Hurns, Dorsett...All of these guys have taken a big step under Golden's watch.

I'd be surprised if one of Coley, Waters, Scott doesn't emerge in 2015.

Good post. This is VERY true. We can knock Golden for ALOT of stuff but he brings WRs back from the dead around here.

If seeing what PD is doing right now doesn't motivate Herb, I don't know what to tell him. PD is going to be a top 50 pick and he wasn't on ANYONEs preseason draft radar. He isn't as fast as PD, but he is a better route runner IMO. And he is still a 4.4 guy.

Looking forward to seeing big things from him and Coley.

He brought Hurns and Dorsett back from the dead?

Was referring to Streeter and DJohnson. They didn't do **** under Shannon. Even Hurns had a bigger role under Golden. Dorsett is Goldens guy and is about to be a top 50 pick. (shrugs) Not a bad track record IMO.

Dorsett, with all his talent, under-produced here. So, I have no idea where you get that Folden did anything special for him. The guy will be drafted relatively high because of his immense physical talent and because of what he's done AFTER the season. Folden did nothing for him.

Streeter? He is another guy with immense physical gifts, who had one good year.

Hurns? Folden did wonders for him. Where'd he get drafted? Hurns was steady his whole **** career.

What did he do for Stacy Coley last year? How about Herb? Both of those guys had horrible seasons despite playing on a very talented offense with an All-American QB. Will you claim Folden as a hero if both of those guys crawl out from the rubbish he piled on them?

Butch gets credit for any and every player that balled out AFTER he left just because he got that player to sign on the dotted line. Even 3 years AFTER he bolted for the Browns. (Sean Taylor, etc)

Just figured we mide as well make it an even playing field for Al too.

Dorsett is his guy. He gets no credit whatsoever? Ok. (shrugs)

 

[Jassid82]

Can we all agree that a head coach has nothing to do with a skill position's player development.

1. Position Coach
2. Coordinator
3. Strength and Conditioning Coach

In that order are the ones that directly effect a players development.

Al isn't showing the receivers how to run crisp routes, catch the ball properly, the intricacies of the position which allow you to beat your man.

His is directly involved in special teams. if a player blows up on ST, then we can say Golden had a hand in that.

This is actually a first. Don't let the "Butch Davis" crew see this. They give him any and all credit for every player in the dynasty era. (2000-2003)

 

[lauderdaleballer]

Good post. This is VERY true. We can knock Golden for ALOT of stuff but he brings WRs back from the dead around here.

If seeing what PD is doing right now doesn't motivate Herb, I don't know what to tell him. PD is going to be a top 50 pick and he wasn't on ANYONEs preseason draft radar. He isn't as fast as PD, but he is a better route runner IMO. And he is still a 4.4 guy.

Looking forward to seeing big things from him and Coley.

He brought Hurns and Dorsett back from the dead?

Was referring to Streeter and DJohnson. They didn't do **** under Shannon. Even Hurns had a bigger role under Golden. Dorsett is Goldens guy and is about to be a top 50 pick. (shrugs) Not a bad track record IMO.

Dorsett, with all his talent, under-produced here. So, I have no idea where you get that Folden did anything special for him. The guy will be drafted relatively high because of his immense physical talent and because of what he's done AFTER the season. Folden did nothing for him.

Streeter? He is another guy with immense physical gifts, who had one good year.

Hurns? Folden did wonders for him. Where'd he get drafted? Hurns was steady his whole **** career.

What did he do for Stacy Coley last year? How about Herb? Both of those guys had horrible seasons despite playing on a very talented offense with an All-American QB. Will you claim Folden as a hero if both of those guys crawl out from the rubbish he piled on them?

Butch gets credit for any and every player that balled out AFTER he left just because he got that player to sign on the dotted line. Even 3 years AFTER he bolted for the Browns. (Sean Taylor, etc)

Just figured we mide as well make it an even playing field for Al too.

Dorsett is his guy. He gets no credit whatsoever? Ok. (shrugs)

If we're going to say that then RS should get credit for PD because he committed to RS...

 

[The Franchise]

Good post. This is VERY true. We can knock Golden for ALOT of stuff but he brings WRs back from the dead around here.

If seeing what PD is doing right now doesn't motivate Herb, I don't know what to tell him. PD is going to be a top 50 pick and he wasn't on ANYONEs preseason draft radar. He isn't as fast as PD, but he is a better route runner IMO. And he is still a 4.4 guy.

Looking forward to seeing big things from him and Coley.

He brought Hurns and Dorsett back from the dead?

Was referring to Streeter and DJohnson. They didn't do **** under Shannon. Even Hurns had a bigger role under Golden. Dorsett is Goldens guy and is about to be a top 50 pick. (shrugs) Not a bad track record IMO.

Dorsett, with all his talent, under-produced here. So, I have no idea where you get that Folden did anything special for him. The guy will be drafted relatively high because of his immense physical talent and because of what he's done AFTER the season. Folden did nothing for him.

Streeter? He is another guy with immense physical gifts, who had one good year.

Hurns? Folden did wonders for him. Where'd he get drafted? Hurns was steady his whole **** career.

What did he do for Stacy Coley last year? How about Herb? Both of those guys had horrible seasons despite playing on a very talented offense with an All-American QB. Will you claim Folden as a hero if both of those guys crawl out from the rubbish he piled on them?

Butch gets credit for any and every player that balled out AFTER he left just because he got that player to sign on the dotted line. Even 3 years AFTER he bolted for the Browns. (Sean Taylor, etc)

Just figured we mide as well make it an even playing field for Al too.

Dorsett is his guy. He gets no credit whatsoever? Ok. (shrugs)

Butch gets credit for having an incredible eye for talent. He's probably the best who has ever walked the earth when it comes to taking HS talent and projecting it to the college level and developing it into NFL talent.

Not sure what any of that has to do with you trying to give Folden credit for "developing" Dorsett when he didn't get nearly enough out of his enormous talent and didn't even recruit him. Dorsett committed to Shannon.

 

[showtime]

Lmao can't believe y'all could be this homer knowing the situation out programs in. KB is the answer at WR coach? We got all these media guys trying to hype up a coach with exactly ZERO coaching experience. Y'all could buy into that **** but I won't. WRs likely to regress without a real coach in 2015. Y'all could buy that BS but I won't

 

[Jassid82]

He brought Hurns and Dorsett back from the dead?

Was referring to Streeter and DJohnson. They didn't do **** under Shannon. Even Hurns had a bigger role under Golden. Dorsett is Goldens guy and is about to be a top 50 pick. (shrugs) Not a bad track record IMO.

Dorsett, with all his talent, under-produced here. So, I have no idea where you get that Folden did anything special for him. The guy will be drafted relatively high because of his immense physical talent and because of what he's done AFTER the season. Folden did nothing for him.

Streeter? He is another guy with immense physical gifts, who had one good year.

Hurns? Folden did wonders for him. Where'd he get drafted? Hurns was steady his whole **** career.

What did he do for Stacy Coley last year? How about Herb? Both of those guys had horrible seasons despite playing on a very talented offense with an All-American QB. Will you claim Folden as a hero if both of those guys crawl out from the rubbish he piled on them?

Butch gets credit for any and every player that balled out AFTER he left just because he got that player to sign on the dotted line. Even 3 years AFTER he bolted for the Browns. (Sean Taylor, etc)

Just figured we mide as well make it an even playing field for Al too.

Dorsett is his guy. He gets no credit whatsoever? Ok. (shrugs)

Butch gets credit for having an incredible eye for talent. He's probably the best who has ever walked the earth when it comes to taking HS talent and projecting it to the college level and developing it into NFL talent.

Not sure what any of that has to do with you trying to give Folden credit for "developing" Dorsett when he didn't get nearly enough out of his enormous talent and didn't even recruit him. Dorsett committed to Shannon.

Ahhhhhh..the ole "well he REALLY committed to RS" excuse. Like PD couldn't have bolted like Teddy Bridgewater and Eli Rodgers did after RS was fired.

My point is that Butch gets credit for guys like Andre Johnson although he only coached him for one year (he was on the scout team btw) and didn't help develop him to his max potential.

But Golden cant get credit for PD, even though he coached him for 4 years, put him a S&C program that allowed him to increase his speed (he wasn't a 4.2 guy out of HS) and bulk up. And gave him a shot to get noticed. (Not like PD had HORRIBLE stats. Just didn't get the ball as much as he should have. Who fault is that really?)

I hate Al too, but at this point you are blaming this guy even if you go to Whole Foods and your favorite bag of chips is out of stock.