Has anyone ever opened and closed an on-campus stadium on the same day?

[TruCane81]

I would be fine with that. It might be more realistic that the Marlins are sold and moved, but we shall see.

Is there any credible talk on this front?

Still amazes me that a team with TWO World Series titles can’t draw, but they blew up the teams for money after each title. Not the best way to ingratiate yourself with a community.

 

[JD08]

You think owning your own stadium, ensuring stability of venue, and maximizing revenue vs. being a second tier tenant who pays rent and loses a lot of game-day revenue is a... trade(off)? Then I really don't know what to say.

Oh wait... but "headaches" lol. Come on, mang. Call me crazy but I'm pretty sure that a world-class 18,000 student and 16,000 employee university with a $3B+ annual budget and three campuses spread across 400 acres with four hospitals and housing for thousands and an on-campus arena can figure out a way to operate a stadium like the other 100+ D1 universities do lol. You simply hire a stadium operations team and make lots of bank deposits. Life isn't that hard.

As far as being "cavalier about alienating fans" I am doing nothing of the sort. If I were advocating building a stadium farther away from campus to serve my desires, there would be a conversation to be had because that would indicate bias. But bringing the stadium home, close to campus, where the students are, where the players are, where we practice, where the faculty is, WHERE THE UNIVERSITY IS, only makes sense. It's natural. It's the goal of every U. It helps build a stronger connection between the university community and the game day experience. It enhances the student experience.

There are plenty of UM fans, wealthy donors, and alumni from Brickell on down too, you know. They are just as important as the fans that live up north. It's not binary, it's zero sum. Some benefit, others will actually have to visit the U for the first time in ages. When you make assumptions that imply that fans located close to the U are somehow automatically "casual" and those up in Broward and PBC are all "donating alumni," it's hard to take your position seriously.

And if it's "all about money" like you say, and I mostly agree, then they we will do whatever we can to get our own revenue-producing home. But as I mentioned, having program security is just as important. As is playing University of Miami football games as close to the University of Miami as we can.

So... Pembroke Pines? Delray? Where do you live?

I'm not really sure why you're trying to make me the face of opposition to a stadium that I don't oppose, but...

What happens if they decide to put the stadium in Homestead, do you fully support that? Do you think the community is going to rally around a stadium that they almost certainly won't want built, in the case of Tropical Park?

I'm even farther north in Jupiter. I've also been to more baseball and basketball games than football games. I commuted to Coral Gables after work to attend classes, so if you're trying to imply that I'm just selfish and don't want to drive, you'rte barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Empirical Cane]

The naming rights and "other revenue" are 50x more important than the top 100 reasons not to leave. You need to be able to compete as a program with your opponents. The end.

Ok, fine, I'll give you another one that's 1000x more important...

Control. UM has no control over our venue. And I don't mean whether they serve coke or Pepsi or what the color of the **** chips they use in the urinals are (Dolphin blue). I'm talking about our right to even play games there. To exist. What if kooky old Ross, knowing he's the only option in town, decides to squeeze us? Or worse, decides they don't want a college tenant one day. He's already trying to be a tennis center and a F1 course. He's like 109 years old and an ****hole. What if the next owner is a wild card? What if he's a fan/alumni of another program that's had their lunch eaten by Mario & Co. and decides to do what it takes to end us? What if 20 years from now FIU has decided to pump hundreds of millions into their program and some rich alumni offers twice the deal for them to take over Saturdays? So we either lose it, or have to take a deal that sets us back 20 years. This is just off the top of my head with a tequila in my hand while watching basketball. Let a consultancy workshop it for eight weeks and you won't be able to sleep at night.

And your reply is going to be that none of that makes sense because it would cost the new owner money, or FIU would never blah blah blah. I get it.

But yeah, the world makes so much sense most of the time, right? Not owning, controlling and being the back up tenant at your own stadium is playing with fire. It's inevitable it will eventually blow up in our face. It might be five years from now, it might be 50 years from now, but eventually there will be a catastrophic event. And until that day, we will be at a financially competitive disadvantage to everyone we compete against every time we play.

We have to get our own place if we can.

 

[Hurracanes]

What's really bad (and misguided) about the poster who said "why not allocate those funds towards NIL" is that it is magical thinking. He acts as if John Ruiz has deposited a bag of money on UM's doorstep and just said "I trust you to spend this however you want". But that's not what is happening.

At the end of the day, John Ruiz wants his family name on a building. He's already spending millions on NIL, he is not going to spend a couple hundred million more on NIL, though he seems willing to spend a couple hundred million on a stadium. He wants his name on a building for decades, and I respect that, and it is his prerogative. It's not for some b!tchy fans in Broward or Palm Beach to say "no, Mr. Ruiz, please spend your money on something else, we want a shorter drive to games and WE want to tell you how WE want to spend your money".

In addition, It’s not only just a “building” on campus but a building that will impact the entire South Florida community, forever. His family name will go down with Joe Robbie and become a Miami legend. Plus, add the Orange Bowl element to it with a roof next door to campus? Lol. It’s too good to be true.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Ok, I'll allow the financial argument, although it's all speculative, but my guess is Ruiz and Co. will do/have done their due diligence.
What is totally false is it will increase attendance, only one thing will do that...and traffic will be a ****-show. Miami traffic is a ****-show now w/o a stadium in a more congested area.
I would be curious to see what percentage of fans come south to games vs north, my guess is it's pretty equal and I have a hard time believing it won't impact the southern travelers, and you can't just say "****'em" that's bad business.
Don't misunderstand me, I would love for them to have their own stadium, but I no longer live in the area and I travel to games so one over the other doesn't affect me.

Please stop with the nonsense.

Nobody ever said "it will increase attendance". People may have said that it will increase attendance AMONG THE UM STUDENTS, but nobody has made a claim that a 60K or a 55K stadium will "increase attendance" over a 65K stadium.

Traffic? It's god**** Saturdays. Nobody has said that things will be perfect, but let's not act like people going to games will be complicating the lives of other people sitting in rush hour traffic. Has anyone ever suggested cancelling the boat show because of traffic? Or air shows? Or concerts? Or fireworks shows? Or literally any other SoFla event that causes a few hours of traffic spikes? But for 6 or 7 weekend games per year, come on, now, it's manageable.

 

[Hurracanes]

Please stop with the nonsense.

Nobody ever said "it will increase attendance". People may have said that it will increase attendance AMONG THE UM STUDENTS, but nobody has made a claim that a 60K or a 55K stadium will "increase attendance" over a 65K stadium.

Traffic? It's god**** Saturdays. Nobody has said that things will be perfect, but let's not act like people going to games will be complicating the lives of other people sitting in rush hour traffic. Has anyone ever suggested cancelling the boat show because of traffic? Or air shows? Or concerts? Or fireworks shows? Or literally any other SoFla event that causes a few hours of traffic spikes? But for 6 or 7 weekend games per year, come on, now, it's manageable.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Not only is the construction a massive undertaking - even moreso in Miami - but so will be operating the stadium. Variable costs are astronomical and one of the reasons the City of Miami bit hook, line, and sinker when an alternative was presented to rid themselves of that expense of the OB.

A new stadium can not sustain itself with only football revenue. Impossible. That’s why we saw concerts at the OB. That’s why Ross is expanding into other areas. He’s probably losing his *** relying on just Dolphin and Hurricane revenue.

You are correct, operating the facility will cost money. I would simply point out, though, that "the City of Miami" didn't "rid themselves of that expense of the OB", they simply traded it for a newer version, with the Marlins stadium. And don't even get me started on the MASSIVE fvck-up with the parking garages and property tax, that one bonehead move is an example that should be put into property tax textbooks and taught in law schools.

I don't think anyone is arguing that a new stadium "can sustain itself with only football revenue". At least those of us who are knowledgeable don't argue that, but we do point out that if you got a stadium FOR FREE (essentially), and you no longer had to pay RENT, and you got to retain ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of all other revenues, such as parking, concessions, and merch, then you might be in a more tenable position. Not to mention the fact that, say, the UCF stadium hosts a bowl game, and the UM stadium could easily do so too. And we could host concerts and other events. A (slightly) smaller stadium in Dade County might also cost less to rent for, say, Florida high school playoffs. Or the Florida Classic.

In particular, since people tend to fixate on a stadium being ON campus, if the stadium was merely NEAR campus, then a lot of these other revenue-generating events become even more likely. ****, for Christmas, you could even do a drive-through lighting display like they do at numerous NASCAR tracks, which generates some nice off-season revenue.

None of this needs to be "on" campus in a literal sense, as long as it is controlled by UM. And I do agree with you, there will be maintenance costs, the upkeep of the stadium from Year 1 to Year 30 is not free.

Unless, of course, Mr. Ruiz wants to make it so.

 

[423Hurricane]

You are correct, operating the facility will cost money. I would simply point out, though, that "the City of Miami" didn't "rid themselves of that expense of the OB", they simply traded it for a newer version, with the Marlins stadium. And don't even get me started on the MASSIVE fvck-up with the parking garages and property tax, that one bonehead move is an example that should be put into property tax textbooks and taught in law schools.

I don't think anyone is arguing that a new stadium "can sustain itself with only football revenue". At least those of us who are knowledgeable don't argue that, but we do point out that if you got a stadium FOR FREE (essentially), and you no longer had to pay RENT, and you got to retain ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of all other revenues, such as parking, concessions, and merch, then you might be in a more tenable position. Not to mention the fact that, say, the UCF stadium hosts a bowl game, and the UM stadium could easily do so too. And we could host concerts and other events. A (slightly) smaller stadium in Dade County might also cost less to rent for, say, Florida high school playoffs. Or the Florida Classic.

In particular, since people tend to fixate on a stadium being ON campus, if the stadium was merely NEAR campus, then a lot of these other revenue-generating events become even more likely. ****, for Christmas, you could even do a drive-through lighting display like they do at numerous NASCAR tracks, which generates some nice off-season revenue.

None of this needs to be "on" campus in a literal sense, as long as it is controlled by UM. And I do agree with you, there will be maintenance costs, the upkeep of the stadium from Year 1 to Year 30 is not free.

Unless, of course, Mr. Ruiz wants to make it so.

You’re by far the most knowledgeable about the campus and surrounding areas. I’ll go with your takes above just about any others. I was just trying to give some perspective to those that seem to think building an “on campus” stadium will solve all of the university’s stadium issues and that’s it’s much more complicated than just finding a place to build one.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

You’re by far the most knowledgeable about the campus and surrounding areas. I’ll go with your takes above just about any others. I was just trying to give some perspective to those that seem to think building an “on campus” stadium will solve all of the university’s stadium issues and that’s it’s much more complicated than just finding a place to build one.

No problem, sir. I have enormous respect for your background, and that's not just blowing smoke. I used to work for ISC/NASCAR, we owned (at the time) 12 NASCAR tracks, and those facilities were either used for ONE race weekend per year or TWO race weekends per year. So I completely understand and agree with you on the maintenance costs of a large facility that is only used (at capacity) a few times per year, and the need to book ancillary income at other times of the year.

Just FYI, the UM basketball arena is used for a bunch of events that UM used to do outside, including freshman Orientation and some graduation events. Since UM is a small private school, we might not need to move those events to a football stadium, but there are other events we could host at a stadium. I know for a fact that some of the NASCAR tracks near larger cities (such as Kansas Speedway and California [AutoClub] Speedway) would lease out the luxury suite facilities for corporate events. Plus, we started booking concert festivals, such as "Welcome to Rockville" at Daytona.

Oh, and I understand the need to handle traffic for special events. I am NOT dismissing the Dade County traffic concerns, I actually agree with them being a legitimate issue, but I'm practical AND an optimist, I'm not a pessimistic moper.

 

[423Hurricane]

Thanks TOC

No doubt those large venues van be used for other events. No brainer. Funny you mention NASCAR and a Christmas light show. I live about 10 miles from the Bristol track. Watched it grow from about 40K seats to it’s current capacity of over 160K. For the last 20 years or so, they’ve had a Christmas light show that benefits over 20 local children’s organizations. It stretches for about 4 miles inside and outside the track. It’s really awesome and has grown over the years.

They’ve also had concerts, a football game between Va Tech and TN, added clay dirt to the track for the Outlaw series and cup cars ran on the dirt last year and doing it again this year. Just a few more examples of the types of events that a large venue can schedule to supplement their income.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Thanks TOC

No doubt those large venues van be used for other events. No brainer. Funny you mention NASCAR and a Christmas light show. I live about 10 miles from the Bristol track. Watched it grow from about 40K seats to it’s current capacity of over 160K. For the last 20 years or so, they’ve had a Christmas light show that benefits over 20 local children’s organizations. It stretches for about 4 miles inside and outside the track. It’s really awesome and has grown over the years.

They’ve also had concerts, a football game between Va Tech and TN, added clay dirt to the track for the Outlaw series and cup cars ran on the dirt last year and doing it again this year. Just a few more examples of the types of events that a large venue can schedule to supplement their income.

Oh, man, that's great to hear. Yeah, Bristol was owned by our competitor (Speedway Motorsports). Bruton did a heckuva job building up Bristol and Charlotte, and I'll even give him a lot of credit for Vegas and Kentucky.

I took a pilgrimmage to Bristol a few years back, I definitely was not accustomed to those elevation changes. ****, they had a shuttle just to get you up and down that one hill!!! I had an infield pass, so I had a great time seeing everything, it was much tighter and more compressed than at Daytona. My old boss at ISC has moved back out to LA (he went to USC) and he just went to the race in the LA Coliseum.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

Message board talk is fun but the bottom line is that no AD of a major college football program would rather not have their own stadium, including our very own new AD, who has already stated on the record, that ideally it would be better to have your own stadium. The reasons are common sense. It really comes down to feasibility, nothing more.

You are 100% right. No reasonable person wouldn’t want us to have our own stadium as long as it had big league amenities like we have now, and there wasn’t some super messed up travel/parking situation.

But even more important, where you’re even more right, is the key word: feasibility.

That feasibility remains to be seen. We are a long way away from even knowing if it’s feasible.

Some people are more optimistic on feasibility than others.

 

[Hold My Beer]

None of this needs to be "on" campus in a literal sense, as long as it is controlled by UM.

Two questions from someone (i.e. me) who doesn't know jack about the infrastructure and layout of South Florida.

1. Where — in an ideal world but considering all key factors — would be the perfect location for John Ruiz Stadium: On campus? On the hallowed grounds of the MOB/the abomination that sits there now? Somewhere near the geographic center of Dade, Broward and PB counties? Somewhere else?

2. What is best realistic option, location wise, for UM's very own JRS?

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

Two questions from someone (i.e. me) who doesn't know jack about the infrastructure and layout of South Florida.

1. Where — in an ideal world but considering all key factors — would be the perfect location for John Ruiz Stadium: On campus? On the hallowed grounds of the MOB/the abomination that sits there now? Somewhere near the geographic center of Dade, Broward and PB counties? Somewhere else?

2. What is best realistic option, location wise, for UM's very own JRS?

The perfect location is where Hard Rock Stadium is right now. Easy access from the north south and west.

Everyone agrees that on campus is not a possibility. At least anyone with any common sense and knowledge. So if you’re not going to have it at hard rock the best location would be in northern Dade. Based on population and travel patterns.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Two questions from someone (i.e. me) who doesn't know jack about the infrastructure and layout of South Florida.

1. Where — in an ideal world but considering all key factors — would be the perfect location for John Ruiz Stadium: On campus? On the hallowed grounds of the MOB/the abomination that sits there now? Somewhere near the geographic center of Dade, Broward and PB counties? Somewhere else?

2. What is best realistic option, location wise, for UM's very own JRS?

I've listed 3 potential ideal locations that (ignoring the Hard Rock bros) would be the feasible locations for a UM-owned/controlled stadium.

1. Tropical Park - good access to the Palmetto (826), but it is currently a public park, and there may be political opposition

2. East of Marlins stadium - good access to the Dolphin (836) and I-95, but some very old 2-story/3-story apartment buildings would need to be acquired and torn down, requiring probable governmental assistance on both eminent domain and the relocation/redevelopment of other areas for affordable housing.

3. North of Magic City Casino - good access to the Dolphin (836), it is currently a shopping center, so you don't have the same issues with "public park" or "affordable housing".

 

[TheOriginalCane]

The Intramural Fields it is:

USF committee recommends site for on-campus football stadium, $5 million gift announced to advance the project

The University of South Florida’s vision to build an on-campus football stadium took a significant step forward today, with a recommended site selected and a $5 million gift for the project announced.

www.usf.edu

 

[Rellyrell]

I've listed 3 potential ideal locations that (ignoring the Hard Rock bros) would be the feasible locations for a UM-owned/controlled stadium.

1. Tropical Park - good access to the Palmetto (826), but it is currently a public park, and there may be political opposition

2. East of Marlins stadium - good access to the Dolphin (836) and I-95, but some very old 2-story/3-story apartment buildings would need to be acquired and torn down, requiring probable governmental assistance on both eminent domain and the relocation/redevelopment of other areas for affordable housing.

3. North of Magic City Casino - good access to the Dolphin (836), it is currently a shopping center, so you don't have the same issues with "public park" or "affordable housing".

So I was listening to a YouTuber from So Fla talking about the stadium rumbles which appear to be more serious than I thought. He mentioned something regarding Tropical Park being more of a financial nuisance to the City of Miami & they will probably be happy to off load it for the right price. Any truth to that?

 

[TheOriginalCane]

So I was listening to a YouTuber from So Fla talking about the stadium rumbles which appear to be more serious than I thought. He mentioned something regarding Tropical Park being more of a financial nuisance to the City of Miami & they will probably be happy to off load it for the right price. Any truth to that?

One point of clarification (and I don't know if you paraphrased the YouTuber or the YouTuber got it wrong), but Tropical Park is not "City of Miami" owned, it is Metro-Dade. Essentially, the City of Miami is JUST the downtown portion of Miami as well as Coconut Grove. It's a very small city (geographically). The rest of Dade County that is NOT incorporated into another city (Coral Gables, Homestead, Pinecrest, etc.) is governed by "Metro-Dade", and this is probably the most powerful and populous of the "municipal" type governments in Dade.

It is very possible that Tropical has become costly for Metro-Dade to operate, and/or there might not be funding to modernize/improve what is currently there. Setting aside politics, and absolutely respecting fantastic posters like @rsa coral gables , who has a very principled viewpoint on this issue, if you just analyze what Tropical currently is and what Tropical MIGHT be (if everything Ruiz promises comes true), it would be a signficant transformation of Tropical Park.

Currently, Tropical has a lot of open space, and is home to an equestrian center. Personally, knowing nothing about equestrian facilities, I don't know if this type of stuff would be better served by being relocated out west. There is MASSIVE traffic nearby from 826 and 874. I have no idea whether air and noise pollution from the expressways impacts the equestrian facilities, but it is something that MIGHT MIGHT MIGHT benefit from a western relocation. Now, would some of the other "space" oriented recreation suffer, such as picnic areas and waterfront areas? Very possibly. Could stuff like that be relocated to Doug Barnes park about a mile to the northeast? Again, POSSIBLY. I would defer to those who still live in SoFla and go to these parks.

As far as what Ruiz is proposing to ADD to Tropical, it would turn it into a more facility-heavy park, with the types of facilities that are not presently on-site at Tropical.

Is it worth the trade-off, to have a football STADIUM on the property, along with a lot of newer stuff, and with no equestrian and less wide-open outdoor stuff? That is the interesting question.

 

[Rellyrell]

One point of clarification (and I don't know if you paraphrased the YouTuber or the YouTuber got it wrong), but Tropical Park is not "City of Miami" owned, it is Metro-Dade. Essentially, the City of Miami is JUST the downtown portion of Miami as well as Coconut Grove. It's a very small city (geographically). The rest of Dade County that is NOT incorporated into another city (Coral Gables, Homestead, Pinecrest, etc.) is governed by "Metro-Dade", and this is probably the most powerful and populous of the "municipal" type governments in Dade.

It is very possible that Tropical has become costly for Metro-Dade to operate, and/or there might not be funding to modernize/improve what is currently there. Setting aside politics, and absolutely respecting fantastic posters like @rsa coral gables , who has a very principled viewpoint on this issue, if you just analyze what Tropical currently is and what Tropical MIGHT be (if everything Ruiz promises comes true), it would be a signficant transformation of Tropical Park.

Currently, Tropical has a lot of open space, and is home to an equestrian center. Personally, knowing nothing about equestrian facilities, I don't know if this type of stuff would be better served by being relocated out west. There is MASSIVE traffic nearby from 826 and 874. I have no idea whether air and noise pollution from the expressways impacts the equestrian facilities, but it is something that MIGHT MIGHT MIGHT benefit from a western relocation. Now, would some of the other "space" oriented recreation suffer, such as picnic areas and waterfront areas? Very possibly. Could stuff like that be relocated to Doug Barnes park about a mile to the northeast? Again, POSSIBLY. I would defer to those who still live in SoFla and go to these parks.

As far as what Ruiz is proposing to ADD to Tropical, it would turn it into a more facility-heavy park, with the types of facilities that are not presently on-site at Tropical.

Is it worth the trade-off, to have a football STADIUM on the property, along with a lot of newer stuff, and with no equestrian and less wide-open outdoor stuff? That is the interesting question.

Thank you; the YouTuber did say Miami-Dade, so I heard wrong for city vs county. But everything u said seems very logical & feasible.

 

[Ajcane8]

Hypothetically, if we could put a facsimile of hard rock at tropical (without those god-awful teal seats), thereby defeating the whole made up “erector set” narrative, then, can we get all the broward/palm beach carpet baggers to just admit that the only reason they don’t want what’s best for the program is their desire to not sit in hypothetical traffic, 7 days a year? (who knows? maybe a new on ramp is built or they make some of the southbound lanes on the palmetto northbound for 2 hours after the game ends - I don't know, I'm not a civil engineer, but let's not act like it'd be impossible to functionally move 55-60 thousand people away from Tropical on a Saturday, if the proper resources were dedicated).

If it really boils down to "that's 12 miles further south and it might add an hour to my commute, so I'm not going" - then I don't think it's the University saying F U more so than that person simply not caring enough to be at the game.

Sure, hard rock is nice... now. A mere 7 years ago it was a cavernous, amenity-less dump, with papier-mache "U's" stapled up 20 minutes before our games and removed 20 minutes after. Then again, 6 or 7 years ago there wasn't an F1 race track, 70 tennis courts and a football facility (which we can't use) taking up half of the parking spaces, but, I digress. That's the main problem with being renters - beyond forgoing the increases in revenue that would come with the university owning/operating a stadium, we are beholden to the whims of someone who has no regard for our interests. A goddamned gator appreciation day took place at the same stadium we play at - sickening (as an aside, I would love to see Ross try and host "Buckeye Day" at the big house. I'm sure it'd go over swimmingly).