Goat

[orange&green84]

Just ridiculous what that defense did the last few weeks.

The GOAT had THREE POINTS with 10 minutes to go in the game. THREE! That's the GOAT? Thank god they weren't playing the Saints. Belichick is the master, but Brees/Payton sure as **** weren't gonna be held to a FG for an entire football game in the biggest game of the year with 2 weeks to prepare. Jared Goff is asscheeks, and was the majority of the year as a pure dropback passer. Gurley being hurt killed them, but regardless, the Rams did NOTHING on offense for 3 quarters and the GOAT put up 3 points.

I knew once the Rams beat the Saints (on a questionable call) that the Rams were going to lose against New England. Goff wasn't ready for the SB. Brees versus Brady would've been a thing of beauty.

Also, Brady got to go against a Rams defense that was terribly mediocre this year. As was the Chiefs on defense. Yet Brady fans tout his success by beating these monster teams when their success was on the offensive side of the ball, not the defense. Belichick had to plan for those offenses, not Brady.

 

[orange&green84]

I think it is Belichick. When Brady retires, I have a sneaking suspicion that the Patriots will still be consistently good. He'll plug someone else in at QB and the train will keep rolling on.

In 2008, Belichick got 11 wins out of Matt Cassel and lost the division title on a tie breaker to the Phins. That was the year the Miami rolled out the wild cat and the Pats were the 1st team it was rolled out against. Not Belichick's best moment, but a lot of defenses were caught off guard that year by it. Two years ago, Brady was suspended for 4 games. We saw Belichick go 3-1 in which Jimmy G went down and he rolled out his 3rd string QB and still flattened teams. Belichick's the GOAT, as much as I hate to say it.

 

[canesthing3]

The Brady haters are a lot like Lebron haters. They don't like the man so they do whatever possible to tear down his accomplishments.

 

[CaneOil]

Cool. Bill Russel won 11 titles with the Celtics as the main guy. That's never happening again in the NBA and most people don't even consider Russel the GOAT. If you want to label Tom Brady and Belichick the best coach/QB combo, then have at it. There's no better pair. Brady's gotten SB wins with mediocre performances whereas other QBs who put up similar numbers lose. Brady has the GOAT HC to help cement his legacy. I guarantee you if you put Rodgers or Manning with Belichick, they get identical success if not better.

It's how you finish a game and there has been no better finisher than Brady, Period. Many people call Jordan the GOAT even though he couldn't win one in 7 years in the 80's when BB was the best. This is what makes you the GOAT. Brady certainly didn't have a great team around him for this on, but still won.

 

[monkey1371]

Brady's an excellent clutch QB. You guys make it sound like he's the only one that does it. Manning has plenty of performances where he's done the same thing. As has Rodgers.

Let's examine this.

Playoff Games
Brady 40 (30-10)
Manning 27 (14-13) (Needed that 3-0 Denver Superbowl Run to get to .500 when he was terrible)
Rodgers 16 (9-7)

4th Qtr Comebacks - Career (Playoffs)
Brady 35 (9)
Manning 43 (2)
Rodgers 14 (1)

Game Winning Drives - Career (Playoffs)
Brady - 44 (12)
Manning - 54 (2)
Rodgers 20 (2)

Pretty clear on the biggest stage, brightest lights Brady is light years ahead of those 2 in being clutch.

 

[Tad Footeball]

L

If Brady was playing for your team you'd be calling him the GOAT, cut it out. LMAO In the big games Brady has been more consistent than all the others.

Hahahaha. If Brady added 6 rings to the 4 the Steelers already had then I might be at Disney today offering to buy him and Julzzz all the Dole Whips they want.



That still doesn't completely eliminate the argument that Montana or Elway or a healthy Marino could've had similar success under Belichick in this era. Per my earlier post, Brady absolutely deserves his place in the GOAT debate but it's something sooooo much harder to draw a conclusion about than in a sport like basketball.

 

[CaneOil]

Hahahaha. If Brady added 6 rings to the 4 the Steelers already had then I might be at Disney today offering to buy him and Julzzz all the Dole Whips they want.



That still doesn't completely eliminate the argument that Montana or Elway or a healthy Marino could've had similar success under Belichick in this era. Per my earlier post, Brady absolutely deserves his place in the GOAT debate but it's something sooooo much harder to draw a conclusion about than in a sport like basketball.

It's just too hard to plug in another QB and say they would be better with another team or coach. Most of the best QB's had great coaches but didn't do what Brady has. If and buts don't cut it.

So who's your GOAT in BB?

 

[orange&green84]

It's how you finish a game and there has been no better finisher than Brady, Period. Many people call Jordan the GOAT even though he couldn't win one in 7 years in the 80's when BB was the best. This is what makes you the GOAT. Brady certainly didn't have a great team around him for this on, but still won.

That Patriots team had Lawyer Milloy, Richard Seymour, Teddy Bruschi, Willie McGinest and Ty Law. They underachieved during the regular season, but that team was loaded on defense.

 

[orange&green84]

Let's examine this.

Playoff Games
Brady 40 (30-10)
Manning 27 (14-13) (Needed that 3-0 Denver Superbowl Run to get to .500 when he was terrible)
Rodgers 16 (9-7)

4th Qtr Comebacks - Career (Playoffs)
Brady 35 (9)
Manning 43 (2)
Rodgers 14 (1)

Game Winning Drives - Career (Playoffs)
Brady - 44 (12)
Manning - 54 (2)
Rodgers 20 (2)

Pretty clear on the biggest stage, brightest lights Brady is light years ahead of those 2 in being clutch.

Coaching.

 

[Tad Footeball]

So who's your GOAT in BB?

If you're wondering.....I was a Magic/Lakers fan growing up so Da GOAT still gets the title in a mocking fashion (literally) from me.

 

[monkey1371]

Coaching.

Explain this then.....Since you brought up winning 11 games with Matt Cassell.

Patriots scored 589 points in 2007......Brady got hurt and they scored 410 points the following year with Casell.

Entire same offense was back...Welker & Moss playing at Pro Bowl levels, entire offensive line....

2007 Brady 4806 Yards 50 TD 8 Int 68.9 Comp% 117.2 Rating 88.5 QBR 8.3 Yrds/attempt 21 Sacks 589 Points Scored
2008 Cassell 3693 Yards 21 TD 11 Int 63.4 Comp% 89.4 Rating 65.3 QBR 7.2 Yrds/attempt 47 Sacks 410 Points Scored

21 to 47 sacks....Did the OLine forget how to block?
50 to 21 TD's.....Did WR/TE forget how to catch TD's?

How does "coaching" explain that HUGE Dropoff in production?

 

[canesthing3]

So who's your GOAT in BB?

It's Bron for me. He's the best overall player and IMO it's not close. If we're not talking overall then what are we talking about? I can go on and on as to why but this is about the In football(Brady) so I digress.

And yes, I'm old enough to have watched MJ through the 90s, in his prime so miss me with that ****.

 

[CaneOil]

View attachment 79529

If you're wondering.....I was a Magic/Lakers fan growing up so Da GOAT still gets the title in a mocking fashion (literally) from me.

Even though he was a loser for 7 straight years in the 80's. Couldn't beat the best players of that time. I was there in Boston garden every game loving it. 15003 of us abused him with Over rated for years. lol So you would take Jordan in a draft over Jabbar, Magic, Bird, Shak, bron and a couple others, really?

 

[CaneOil]

It's Bron for me. He's the best overall player and IMO it's not close. If we're not talking overall then what are we talking about? I can go on and on as to why but this is about the In football(Brady) so I digress.

And yes, I'm old enough to have watched MJ through the 90s, in his prime so miss me with that ****.

I'd take Bron every day over Jordan in a draft. I'd also take Magic, Jabbar, Bird over Jordan too. I saw every big game in the 80's in Boston garden, We had fun with Jordan. Would have loved to see bron in the 80's, much much tougher playes back then to hammer him.

 

[canesthing3]

I'd take Bron every day over Jordan in a draft. I'd also take Magic, Jabbar, Bird over Jordan too. I saw every big game in the 80's in Boston garden, We had fun with Jordan. Would have loved to see bron in the 80's, much much tougher playes back then to hammer him.

Unfortunately, wasn't around to watch those fellas. Coming up my dad always told me that he thought Magic and Bird(in that order) were the s.

I think Bron would have done fine back then. He's a freight train and an elite passer, you couldn't just focus your whole D on him.

 

[CaneOil]

Coaching. Excuses!

 

[NE Canes]

Agree 100% with all of this. Completely. I'm not saying Brady deserves no credit...of course he deserves a ton of praise. He's great. You couldn't plug ANY QB in there and get these results...not even close. But you could plug SOME in and get as good or, IMO, even better results. To be the GOAT, that can't happen. Take MJ off the Bulls in the 90s and put ANY player in the entire league in his place, you don't get his production and you don't go 6/6 in the finals. THAT is a GOAT. Tom Brady is a great player. He's not the best QB to ever play.

Some of the better QBs in the league have some of the best WR/RBs in the league and they still can't win. This Plug and Play thing is a myth.

You plug some of these QBs into NE and they would never find an open WR. Manning had two HOF WRs and still could not manage to win when it mattered. In fact, many of these QBs like Rodgers and manning get worse when it matters most.

 

[Tad Footeball]

Even though he was a loser for 7 straight years in the 80's. Couldn't beat the best players of that time. I was there in Boston garden every game loving it. 15003 of us abused him with Over rated for years. lol So you would take Jordan in a draft over Jabbar, Magic, Bird, Shak, bron and a couple others, really?

Yup because once he got ANY talent around him on his roster he was the most dominant player I've ever seen in that sport.

My personal top 10 list and it's post Kareem/Wilt/Russell/West etc due to my age would be:

Jordan
Lebron
Magic
Bird
Kobe
Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan
David Robinson
Wade/Barkley

 

[NE Canes]

Luck is BS argument when it happens over 17 seasons......It is conveniently used one way to justify a position, while ignoring all contradictory "unlucky" things that have happened.

For example......Articles like this all always somehow just ignore that insane, Kearse freak catch bouncing off his leg that puts Seattle in position for Brady to get lucky by them not running it with Lynch in 2014.

• Or what about Manning escape and Tyree catch that cost him a Superbowl for example.
• Or the Miracle in Miami play that make NE have to play the AFC Championship game in KC instead of home this year (Which they overcame).

Point is you only want to remember the times "Luck" benefited the Patriots/Brady.....I am sure if you go over the 17 years of their/his dominance you will find equally amount of "unlucky breaks" they got that would basically even them out.

I love the LUCK argument. 17 years of luck. Can you even begin to imagine using this as an argument. 17 years....?

MJ was just lucky....
James was just lucky....

Luck is almost the most absurd argument anyone could make not to mention all the "LUCK" against the Pats. Without Giants Luck the Pats have another SB win.

 

[Colombie]

There is no argument in my mind. Brady is the best and will continue to add to his legacy until he retires.