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Goat

Katzenboyer said:
Trash take. Let's look at some numbers:

Brady is 6-3 all time in the playoffs against teams with 13 wins or more.
Montana? 1-3.
Peyton? 4-5.
Rodgers? 2-2.

In Brady's last 16 playoffs games, he's 12-4, with 5,000 yards and a 36 TD/14 INT ratio. MVP numbers.

Brady v. Manning in Super Bowls:
Peyton Manning: 103-155 for 1,001 yds, 3 TDs, 5 INTs & 77.4 QB rating in 4 Super Bowls.
Tom Brady: 235-357 for 2,576 yards, 18 TDs, 5 INTs & 98.0 QB rating in 8 Super Bowls.

Drew Brees & Aaron Rodgers combined playoff stats (31 games): 786 CMP / 1,210 ATT / 9,217 YDS / 69 TD / 21 INT / 99.7 RATING / RECORD 17-14
Tom Brady's WORST 31 playoff starts: 790 CMP / 1,278 ATT / 8,387 YDS / 46 TD / 33 INT / 82.2 RATING / 22-9 RECORD


Should I keep going?
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You literally posted win-loss records to back up your statement when I said he plays for a generational organization with the best coach ever. And he's a great player. Of course they win. But no non-biased person on earth can watch Tom Brady play football and say, "That's the best guy to ever do it." No one. He's a great player in an even better organization. Nothing more. Not the greatest QB of all-time, and the fact that he's mentioned as such as often as he is makes him the most overrated player in the history of the sport.

He's great. He's certainly not the best there ever was.
 
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OrangeBowlMagic said:
You literally posted win-loss records to back up your statement when I said he plays for a generational organization with the best coach ever. And he's a great player. Of course they win. But no non-biased person on earth can watch Tom Brady play football and say, "That's the best guy to ever do it." No one. He's a great player in an even better organization. Nothing more. Not the greatest QB of all-time, and the fact that he's mentioned as such as often as he is makes him the most overrated player in the history of the sport.

He's great. He's certainly not the best there ever was.
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So then who's the greatest of all time? Because if you look at the other two commonly mentioned, they also played for generational organizations.

Manning? Played for a HOF coach with Dungy, and a HOF front office guy in Polian.

How about Montana? Bill Walsh -- HOFer, and considered one of the all-time great football coaches. Eddie Debartolo is one of the all-time great owners, and another HOFer. Oh, and the 49ers never had to worry about a salary cap.

Why is this "organizational" argument only applicable to Brady? Here's a hint - because you don't like the guy, and it's blinded you to the fact that he is hands down the best QB that's ever lived. Open and shut case; the only people arguing against it are the ones that hate the Pats. Which is fine - I hate Alabama; but that doesn't take away from Saban's greatness.
 
Katzenboyer said:
the fact that he is hands down the best QB that's ever lived. Open and shut case
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LOL ok. I'll take the guy with the better career completion percentage, more yards per attempt and completion, significantly better TD to Int ratio, more purely talented passer and runner and you can have Mr. System Brady. Belichick is the only "open and shut case" GOAT on the NE roster.
 
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Katzenboyer said:
So then who's the greatest of all time? Because if you look at the other two commonly mentioned, they also played for generational organizations.

Manning? Played for a HOF coach with Dungy, and a HOF front office guy in Polian.

How about Montana? Bill Walsh -- HOFer, and considered one of the all-time great football coaches. Eddie Debartolo is one of the all-time great owners, and another HOFer. Oh, and the 49ers never had to worry about a salary cap.

Why is this "organizational" argument only applicable to Brady? Here's a hint - because you don't like the guy, and it's blinded you to the fact that he is hands down the best QB that's ever lived. Open and shut case; the only people arguing against it are the ones that hate the Pats. Which is fine - I hate Alabama; but that doesn't take away from Saban's greatness.
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I don't hate Brady at all. Sure, it's weird he kisses his kids for extended periods on the mouth, but I'm sure some people enjoy that sort of thing. Maybe you're in that camp too, I'm not sure. But I watch Tom Brady play the position and I watch others and what I see is Tom Brady is incredibly clutch, and incredibly lucky. He's not overly talented. He's great, but he's nowhere near the player Aaron Rodgers is. He's nowhere near the player Dan Marino was, but that was a different era and that's hard to translate. He's not as good as Drew Brees. Put any of these players on the Pats in 2000 with everything around the same and they'd all have going on 10 rings.

Every player needs a few lucky bounces to go his way, but Brady's luck has been absolutely unparalleled. And don't believe me, check the article below that was just written today, when I've been saying this for years. Tuck Rule, Marshawn Lynch, 28-3 and a dropped Robert Alford INT that hit him in the chest, Dee Ford, playing Jared ******* Goff in a Super Bowl and being AWFUL for 50 minutes of it and still winning. His luck is unmatched. Great player, no doubt. And he's been a clutch player on several occasions. Not the GOAT.

The Brady Luck
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
I don't hate Brady at all. Sure, it's weird he kisses his kids for extended periods on the mouth, but I'm sure some people enjoy that sort of thing. Maybe you're in that camp too, I'm not sure. But I watch Tom Brady play the position and I watch others and what I see is Tom Brady is incredibly clutch, and incredibly lucky. He's not overly talented. He's great, but he's nowhere near the player Aaron Rodgers is. He's nowhere near the player Dan Marino was, but that was a different era and that's hard to translate. He's not as good as Drew Brees. Put any of these players on the Pats in 2000 with everything around the same and they'd all have going on 10 rings.

Every player needs a few lucky bounces to go his way, but Brady's luck has been absolutely unparalleled. And don't believe me, check the article below that was just written today, when I've been saying this for years. Tuck Rule, Marshawn Lynch, 28-3 and a dropped Robert Alford INT that hit him in the chest, Dee Ford, playing Jared ******* Goff in a Super Bowl and being AWFUL for 50 minutes of it and still winning. His luck is unmatched. Great player, no doubt. And he's been a clutch player on several occasions. Not the GOAT.

The Brady Luck
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You say you don't hate Brady and then criticize him...Really!
 
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blushrts said:
I agree. Watching yesterday, I don't think Brady threw more than 6 or 7 passes more than 10 yards downfield. Their scheme gets Edelman open all freaking day about 8 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. (Welker before this) I knew they were going to take Berrios and in a few years it will be him in the slot.

Peyton Manning wins a ton of Super Bowls if he and Tom trade teams.
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Hahaha. You gotta give this one argument up, brother. As a diehard Steelers fan I tried to run with it for a handful of years too but that c0cksucker torched us with more than dinking & dunking and midget white wr too many times.

That said, Belicheat is just winning in New England with Pete Carroll's players.
 
fraggle said:
You say you don't hate Brady and then criticize him...Really!
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Yes? You have to hate someone in order to criticize them? Every sportswriter who writes a column criticizing a coach or player hates that person? Every teacher who critiques a term paper hates the student? What the **** are you talking about.

I despise today's society and the "snowflake" bs....but jesus this is the textbook definition. Yes, I criticized him. And no, I don't hate him. How old are you? 13?
 
Tad Footeball said:
Hahaha. You gotta give this one argument up, brother. As a diehard Steelers fan I tried to run with it for a handful of years too but that c0cksucker torched us with more than dinking & dunking and midget white wr too many times.

That said, Belicheat is just winning in New England with Pete Carroll's players.
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Yep. He's maybe the GOAT dinker and dunker. I'll give him that. The guy can throw a 7 yard whip route as good as anyone. But he's not the best QB to ever play the game. He's not even the best QB playing the game right now. But he's **** good and his surrounding cast, especially Belichick, the front office, and that defense are just insane.

New England played 3 post-season games this year, in a year with more scoring than ever before in the history of the league, and gave up a COMBINED 7 first half points to the Chargers, Chiefs on the road, and Rams. The 2 best offenses in the league by a mile, and Philip Rivers. 7 first half points. Belichick is the best to ever do it, period. Oh, and by the way, in those 3 games Tom Brady threw 2 TDs and 3 INTs (should've been 4 if Dee Ford just lines up onsides which he did on every single of the other 90 plays the Pats ran), with 7.6 YPA. 6.9 Air yards per attempt (LMAO). By the way, 7.6 YPA would've ranked 15th in the NFL this year, and 6.9 Air YPA would've ranked 25th. Yep, that's the GOAT.
 
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Tell you what Orangebowlmagic, back up what you say with something other than luck. I mean seriously, look at the stats. Go deep on those stats, like Yards per completion, Yards per pass attempt, td/int ratio. 4th quarter comebacks, (and dont say he plays like crap for 3 quarters etc, No one said that about Montana when he was the comeback kid) Check out Peyton Mannings stat line on his superbowl 50 win... I have a hard time believing you are going to find anything. Then look at career numbers as well and use those same metrics against guys like Moon, Montana, Young, Manning,Farve ,Rodgers etc.
I mean people love to blow Brees, you realize he has had like 4-5 7 win seasons in which he was the starter for the whole season. Look at Rodgers this year, he was terrible. But no your right Brady is just lucky. He's not actually good.
 
If its so easy to just dink and dink then you should have told Jarred Goff that last night... and if its so easy, then why dont other teams do it? I mean its a copycat league right? You are just blinded bro its painfully obvious. You can compare playoff games to regular season averages, its just not the same level of talent in those games. Different pressure, different weather. So many variables but your just finding the ones to support your argument. what you forget in your statistical analysis, he had better numbers than all those qbs he played against. 34-44 for 343 against the chargers, 30-46 for 348 against the Chiefs. Yeah those are just a bunch of lucky completions... Oh by the way, those numbers I gave you were the best of ANY qb in any game of those given weeks. So in the playoffs, he outplayed EVERY qb in EVERY round. He IS a lucky SOB!
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Yep. He's maybe the GOAT dinker and dunker. I'll give him that. The guy can throw a 7 yard whip route as good as anyone. But he's not the best QB to ever play the game. He's not even the best QB playing the game right now. But he's **** good and his surrounding cast, especially Belichick, the front office, and that defense are just insane.

New England played 3 post-season games this year, in a year with more scoring than ever before in the history of the league, and gave up a COMBINED 7 first half points to the Chargers, Chiefs on the road, and Rams. The 2 best offenses in the league by a mile, and Philip Rivers. 7 first half points. Belichick is the best to ever do it, period. Oh, and by the way, in those 3 games Tom Brady threw 2 TDs and 3 INTs (should've been 4 if Dee Ford just lines up onsides which he did on every single of the other 90 plays the Pats ran), with 7.6 YPA. 6.9 Air yards per attempt (LMAO). By the way, 7.6 YPA would've ranked 15th in the NFL this year, and 6.9 Air YPA would've ranked 25th. Yep, that's the GOAT.
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I'm not one to go too hard to the mat for the Golden Boy or for anything Pats related as I hate them with a passion and the Bahhhhston mouthbreathers more than carry the mantle when discussing legacy and dynasties so I'll just say this (and it's where we'd probably find agreement):

- If I'm starting a franchise then I take Belicheat at any age over Brady in his prime. Sure, he's had the benefit of an incompetent AFC East during his run but he's won in the era of the salary cap and free agency and over a much more prolonged period than other coaching "greats".

- I also think Belicheat has the same or possibly even greater success with many of the guys that Brady is justifiably compared to today in Montana, Elway, Manning, Marino, etc.

- Look at the success (or almost complete lack thereof) that Belicheat's assistants have had on their own. Bill freakin' O'Brien has probably done the most.....and that ain't much. This just gives even more credit that it's all Billy in New England.....and should have Dolphins fans very nervous about their new hire.
 
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Lmao @ anyone denigrating 9 SBs and 6 rings. In football, no one has been close. Arguing that someone else could have done something similar if they’d plyed in NE is silly and stupid. They didn’t, and you don’t know that. Brady didn’t have the best RBs or WRs for the most part. And he always got it done when it mattered. He is clearly the goat in the real world, no matter how many delusional haters imagine a world where someone else is the goat.
 
Brady is 41 freaking years old and still doing it at an elite level.

No one, not Manning, Montana or Marino has done what he has statistically and in the win-loss column longer and at the level he has in any sport.

It’s indesputable. Brady is the greatest ever.
 
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OrangeBowlMagic said:
I don't hate Brady at all. Sure, it's weird he kisses his kids for extended periods on the mouth, but I'm sure some people enjoy that sort of thing. Maybe you're in that camp too, I'm not sure. But I watch Tom Brady play the position and I watch others and what I see is Tom Brady is incredibly clutch, and incredibly lucky. He's not overly talented. He's great, but he's nowhere near the player Aaron Rodgers is. He's nowhere near the player Dan Marino was, but that was a different era and that's hard to translate. He's not as good as Drew Brees. Put any of these players on the Pats in 2000 with everything around the same and they'd all have going on 10 rings.

Every player needs a few lucky bounces to go his way, but Brady's luck has been absolutely unparalleled. And don't believe me, check the article below that was just written today, when I've been saying this for years. Tuck Rule, Marshawn Lynch, 28-3 and a dropped Robert Alford INT that hit him in the chest, Dee Ford, playing Jared ******* Goff in a Super Bowl and being AWFUL for 50 minutes of it and still winning. His luck is unmatched. Great player, no doubt. And he's been a clutch player on several occasions. Not the GOAT.

The Brady Luck
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9 years of luck. Marino had no touch, just a blazing fast ball. Brady has the best touch on a ball I've ever seen, over and over and over again. So you would want Marino in the game when it's on the line instead of Brady? Stop!
 
Tad Footeball said:
I'm not one to go too hard to the mat for the Golden Boy or for anything Pats related as I hate them with a passion and the Bahhhhston mouthbreathers more than carry the mantle when discussing legacy and dynasties so I'll just say this (and it's where we'd probably find agreement):

- If I'm starting a franchise then I take Belicheat at any age over Brady in his prime. Sure, he's had the benefit of an incompetent AFC East during his run but he's won in the era of the salary cap and free agency and over a much more prolonged period than other coaching "greats".

- I also think Belicheat has the same or possibly even greater success with many of the guys that Brady is justifiably compared to today in Montana, Elway, Manning, Marino, etc.

- Look at the success (or almost complete lack thereof) that Belicheat's assistants have had on their own. Bill freakin' O'Brien has probably done the most.....and that ain't much. This just gives even more credit that it's all Billy in New England.....and should have Dolphins fans very nervous about their new hire.
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L

If Brady was playing for your team you'd be calling him the GOAT, cut it out. LMAO In the big games Brady has been more consistent than all the others.
 
Tad Footeball said:
I'm not one to go too hard to the mat for the Golden Boy or for anything Pats related as I hate them with a passion and the Bahhhhston mouthbreathers more than carry the mantle when discussing legacy and dynasties so I'll just say this (and it's where we'd probably find agreement):

- If I'm starting a franchise then I take Belicheat at any age over Brady in his prime. Sure, he's had the benefit of an incompetent AFC East during his run but he's won in the era of the salary cap and free agency and over a much more prolonged period than other coaching "greats".

- I also think Belicheat has the same or possibly even greater success with many of the guys that Brady is justifiably compared to today in Montana, Elway, Manning, Marino, etc.

- Look at the success (or almost complete lack thereof) that Belicheat's assistants have had on their own. Bill freakin' O'Brien has probably done the most.....and that ain't much. This just gives even more credit that it's all Billy in New England.....and should have Dolphins fans very nervous about their new hire.
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Agree 100% with all of this. Completely. I'm not saying Brady deserves no credit...of course he deserves a ton of praise. He's great. You couldn't plug ANY QB in there and get these results...not even close. But you could plug SOME in and get as good or, IMO, even better results. To be the GOAT, that can't happen. Take MJ off the Bulls in the 90s and put ANY player in the entire league in his place, you don't get his production and you don't go 6/6 in the finals. THAT is a GOAT. Tom Brady is a great player. He's not the best QB to ever play.
 
CaneOil said:
9 years of luck. Marino had no touch, just a blazing fast ball. Brady has the best touch on a ball I've ever seen, over and over and over again. So you would want Marino in the game when it's on the line instead of Brady? Stop!
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Marino had no touch. I don't even like the Dolphins (or really the NFL in general), but that's an immediate ignore. I'll never take anything you say seriously no matter what, so no reason to see what you post. Good lord, what a dumbass thing to say LMAO.
 
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