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Goat

HamburgerSV said:
How do you know he wouldn’t have multiple Super Bowls? These hypotheticals are lazy....no one knows what would happen if we put manning on the patriots or Brady on the ravens or this or that. What we do know is he has 5 rings, has been to 9 Super Bowls and has beaten many teams that are more talented than the pats (like the chiefs last night) He has insane numbers and 12 game winning drives in the playoffs. And pats defenses have been mediocre for a while now and they’re still winning.
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Obviously anything could happen, but it is highly unlikely that he would win an SB with the Browns. Especially considering the fact that they wouldn't have all that talent if Brady was there because the team would not finish last year after year.

They are not lazy. This is how you determine the GOAT. You need to hold all factors constant. How would each QB do on identical teams. Whoever would lead the team to the most SBs is the GOAT. Using different teams to compare a player is absolutely ridiculous and laughable. Otherwise we can say Trent Dilfer is better than Marino.

So again I ask. If Brady was on the Browns and performed at an elite level, but won 0 SBs would you still have him in the GOAT conversation? You clearly don't want to answer the question because you know it is going to destroy your whole argument.
 
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Katzenboyer said:
Jordan had Phil. Magic had Riley. Russell/Bird had Auerbach.

Sports "greatests" have all had great coaches. Do we discount MJ because his only six titles came when Phil Jackson was his coach - the guy with the most NBA championships in coaching history?

No. We don't. And it's why people put Lebron behind MJ - championships.

It only happens with Brady. And it's an objective falsehood. People who say otherwise are willfully blind about it.
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Basketball you get by talent mostly. The NFL's a bit different, bud. Coaching is magnified in football as opposed to basketball. You can scheme around talent deficiencies in football, you're ****ed in basketball if you don't have talent.

But I can tell you're a Pats fan. Brady fanboys get so ****ed when you give Belichick the credit over Brady.
 
TemplarCane said:
Agreed, and comparing LBs to QBs is silly.

I don’t believe there is any one GOAT at any position. There are a collection of elite players who you can say no one is better than, but there are equals. Especially in team sports, and especially in football.
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Ding ding ding
 
orange&green84 said:
Depends on how you want to look at it. Brady's got a great resume, but he also has arguably the best HC of all-time. I personally think what Peyton Manning was able to accomplish over 4 different HC's spanning over 2 franchises is a remarkable feat. Joe Montana going 4-0 in the Super Bowl is pretty impressive, while also taking KC to an AFC title game. Brady's in the same tier, but there's no clear cut GOAT. Brady just has a better resume.
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SMH

There is an obvious and clear cut goat. You are just blind, in denial, biased or all of the above.
 
orange&green84 said:
Basketball you get by talent mostly. The NFL's a bit different, bud. Coaching is magnified in football as opposed to basketball. You can scheme around talent deficiencies in football, you're ****ed in basketball if you don't have talent.

But I can tell you're a Pats fan. Brady fanboys get so ****ed when you give Belichick the credit over Brady.
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Belichik did go 11-5 with Matt ‘Who?’ Cassell at QB.
 
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orange&green84 said:
Went 3-1 with little known Jimmy G and Jacoby Brissett (his 3rd string QB at the time) and was still crushing teams. But all Brady apparently.
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No, not all Brady, but the other QBs didn’t take NE to 9 SBs.

Here’s a question. How many SBs would NE won had Drew Bledsoe not been injured?
 
FULL DISCLOSURE:

As much as I respect Belichik and Brady, I hope the Rams do to the Pats what Clemson did to Alabaga.
 
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YLCANE said:
Brady GOAT and it isn’t even close
He is simply amazing
All the right calls/reads/checks

And oh by the way it is amazing to listen to Romo broadcast.... he is unreal!
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Romo is such an awesome commentator. He might be the best ever. Gives such amazing insight into the game and has such a genuine enthusiasm for the game.
 
orange&green84 said:
Nope. I just don't have Brady's nut sack blocking my vision.

I would like to say good luck against the Rams, but nah.
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To the contrary. You most obviously do. You are so blinded by his *******, so all consumed by thinking about it, that you fail to see the obvious staring you in the face. He is playing in his 9th superbowl! And you see nothing and talk about nothing but his *******. But we’re the ones who are blind? ROFLMGDAO
 
TemplarCane said:
FULL DISCLOSURE:

As much as I respect Belichik and Brady, I hope the Rams do to the Pats what Clemson did to Alabaga.
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I would have rooted for the rams but that no call PI at the end of regulation was inexcusable. Cannot root for them to win when they should nott be there. Will be neutral in this game.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
To the contrary. You most obviously do. You are so blinded by his *******, so all consumed by thinking about it, that you fail to see the obvious staring you in the face. He is playing in his 9th superbowl! And you see nothing and talk about nothing but his *******. But we’re the ones who are blind? ROFLMGDAO
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On the contrary, I think Belichick's a masterful coach and I said Brady's one of the great QBs in history. I just don't think he's the GOAT. But you feel the need to continue to try and convince me on a matter that's truly subjective.
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
Obviously anything could happen, but it is highly unlikely that he would win an SB with the Browns. Especially considering the fact that they wouldn't have all that talent if Brady was there because the team would not finish last year after year.

They are not lazy. This is how you determine the GOAT. You need to hold all factors constant. How would each QB do on identical teams. Whoever would lead the team to the most SBs is the GOAT. Using different teams to compare a player is absolutely ridiculous and laughable. Otherwise we can say Trent Dilfer is better than Marino.

So again I ask. If Brady was on the Browns and performed at an elite level, but won 0 SBs would you still have him in the GOAT conversation? You clearly don't want to answer the question because you know it is going to destroy your whole argument.
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Because it’s a dumbass question....you’re trying to decide “how would each player do on that team” when there’s no way you could ever determine that. If the heat had ended up with only bosh and wade Everybody would have said “put LeBron on the heat with Bosh and wade and they’d never lose a series”...if LeBron gets hurt before the mavs series everybody would have said “the heat win if LeBron doesn’t get hurt” if LeBron gets hurt before the second warriors series everybody would have said “ warriors still would have won” Dilfer? Wtf ? Yea Great point if Brady was putting up dilfer type numbers. But He’s putting up goat numbers and winning goat amount of rings. “Put manning on the pats and they win multiple super bowls” that’s why Hypotheticals are lazy cause you’re basically giving dudes credit for things they haven’t accomplished. I deal with reality and that’s 5 super bowl wins and counting and 9 super bowl appearances mvp type numbers for over
a decade and yearly game winning drives in playoff games. But Please enlighten us how you’re able to determine how each player would do on a certain team and the science behind it
 
TemplarCane said:
No, not all Brady, but the other QBs didn’t take NE to 9 SBs.

Here’s a question. How many SBs would NE won had Drew Bledsoe not been injured?
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Who knows? Brady's definitely elite. I don't want people to misunderstand the context of my stance. Brady's got the most decorated resume in the NFL. But I attribute a large part of NE's success to Belichick, whom I consider the GOAT coach in the NFL. Now, if we're talking best QB/Coach combo, it's Brady and Belichick by a mile.
 
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orange&green84 said:
That 3rd INT that was called back from Dee Ford's penalty was out of reach for 6'6 Gronk. And spare me with the Brady has never had any weapons talk. Gronk's going to go down as one of the best TEs in the NFL and Edelman's not exactly a scrub. NE might also have the 2 best RB combo in the NFL this year sans the Rams and maybe the Saints.
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If you're arguing that Brady has had comparable offensive talent to Peyton, Montana, Elway, etc., I don't know what to tell you.
 
orange&green84 said:
Basketball you get by talent mostly. The NFL's a bit different, bud. Coaching is magnified in football as opposed to basketball. You can scheme around talent deficiencies in football, you're ****ed in basketball if you don't have talent.

But I can tell you're a Pats fan. Brady fanboys get so ****ed when you give Belichick the credit over Brady.
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I'm actually not. But you recognize great when it's there. Both of them are all-timers, but to say one is (Belichick, in your argument I think?) and not the other is ludicrous.

I hate Baga and Nick Saban, but that doesn't take away the fact that they're probably the greatest collegiate football dynasty of the modern era.
 
HamburgerSV said:
Because it’s a dumbass question....you’re trying to decide “how would each player do on that team” when there’s no way you could ever determine that. If the heat had ended up with only bosh and wade Everybody would have said “put LeBron on the heat with Bosh and wade and they’d never lose a series”...if LeBron gets hurt before the mavs series everybody would have said “the heat win if LeBron doesn’t get hurt” if LeBron gets hurt before the second warriors series everybody would have said “ warriors still would have won” Dilfer? Wtf ? Yea Great point if Brady was putting up dilfer type numbers. But He’s putting up goat numbers and winning goat amount of rings. “Put manning on the pats and they win multiple super bowls” that’s why Hypotheticals are lazy cause you’re basically giving dudes credit for things they haven’t accomplished. I deal with reality and that’s 5 super bowl wins and counting and 9 super bowl appearances mvp type numbers for over
a decade and yearly game winning drives in playoff games. But Please enlighten us how you’re able to determine how each player would do on a certain team and the science behind it
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That is why the GOAT argument is just that. An argument. No one can say X is the GOAT. It is impossible to decide. No one would have said put Lebron on the team and they never lose a series. You aren't dealing with anything. You are trying to push an agenda with facts that don't have anything to do with the GOAT discussion. Does Brady have the most rings? Yes. That is all this proves. It has nothing to do with who the GOAT is. I can't believe you still can't get that through your head. It is mind boggling, but maybe it is because you have your Pats shades on. Hypotheticals are the only way to even discuss a point like this.

Otherwise you are going to have one guy saying Brady is the GOAT because he is the SB leader. Another guy saying Brees is the GOAT because he is the pass yards, completion, and passing TD leader. Another guy saying Montana won 4 SBs quicker and would have won more if he wasn't injured and then sat out 2 seasons.

Maybe you have a different def. of GOAT than I and most people do. The GOAT is not the guy with the most wins. It is the best QB of all time. All things equal who comes out on top. In that discussion SBs mean jack schit because it is a team sport.

So of course you will refuse to answer any question that shows how stupid your, "but 5 rings" response really is. What will be your next dumb argument? Charles Haley is better than Jim Brown, Walter Payton, and Bo Jackson combined because he has more rings than all 3 of them put together?
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
That is why the GOAT argument is just that. An argument. No one can say X is the GOAT. It is impossible to decide. No one would have said put Lebron on the team and they never lose a series. You aren't dealing with anything. You are trying to push an agenda with facts that don't have anything to do with the GOAT discussion. Does Brady have the most rings? Yes. That is all this proves. It has nothing to do with who the GOAT is. I can't believe you still can't get that through your head. It is mind boggling, but maybe it is because you have your Pats shades on. Hypotheticals are the only way to even discuss a point like this.

Otherwise you are going to have one guy saying Brady is the GOAT because he is the SB leader. Another guy saying Brees is the GOAT because he is the pass yards, completion, and passing TD leader. Another guy saying Montana won 4 SBs quicker and would have won more if he wasn't injured and then sat out 2 seasons.

Maybe you have a different def. of GOAT than I and most people do. The GOAT is not the guy with the most wins. It is the best QB of all time. All things equal who comes out on top. In that discussion SBs mean jack schit because it is a team sport.

So of course you will refuse to answer any question that shows how stupid your, "but 5 rings" response really is. What will be your next dumb argument? Charles Haley is better than Jim Brown, Walter Payton, and Bo Jackson combined because he has more rings than all 3 of them put together?
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Jeezus dude... you are one long winded poster. I would think that goat encompasses all things/stats, but SB wins is included as well by most sports writers/commentators.
Brady whether you or I like it will be goat. It's like if the question was asked on Family Feud who's goat... you bet your *** it will be Brady... it is what it is dude.
And hey brother... no long winded answer, lol.
 
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