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Gnomes & pucks: this thread sucks

canesproponent said:
Georgetown cannot fund 85 football scholarships, so they assign a certain number of merit-based scholarships to football players (that possess the requisite grades). Georgetown has a small endowment, but it has a plethora of endowed scholarships. My freshman year we had 20 players on academic scholarships. One huge caveat is that they have to maintain a certain GPA. Five of those football players ultimately had to leave Georgetown.
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Yep, and those are UNDER the NCAA limit.
 
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As usual the Gnome is wrong. Academic scholarships do not count against the 11.7. Moreover, not a single Vanderbilt player has incurred any debt or paid any tuition since Vanderbilt funded Operation Vanderbilt. HUGE advantage.

"Division I institutions provide the most athletic scholarships. Baseball programs are allowed a total of 11.7 full scholarships they may use for their players. But not all programs have all 11.7 scholarships available. Individual scholarships may be offered in any percentage of the coaching staff's choosing, and the 11.7 total scholarships may be split among up to 27 players per team. Scholarships to Division I institutions may include athletic and financial aid, but in SOME cases additional financial aid may count toward the total 11.7 scholarships for the program. Academic scholarships can offset athletic scholarships or financial aid and they do not count against the 11.7 scholarships available. The institutions that compete in the Ivy League and Patriot League conferences do not offer athletic scholarship aid."

"Every team in the SEC is allowed to have 11.7 scholarships. However, if a team is located in a state with a lottery education fund, then they can give lottery funded scholarships to players, and those lottery funded scholarships do not count against the 11.7. As a result, teams that are located in states with a lottery fund can have more scholarship players on their roster than teams in states without the lottery. "

"Vanderbilt runs a program started years ago called Operation Vanderbilt. It is an endowment that supplements or fully replaces federal financial aid or grants. It is open to all students but sports, not including football and basketball, have been able to take advantage of it over the years. With this program, Vanderbilt has not had a single baseball player over the last two seasons have to pay a single cent in tuition."

"While there are only 11.7 athletic scholarships for baseball (and a 35 man roster), baseball players can be on any type of additional financial aid without penalty. In football, schools cannot do that because every player on financial aid counts toward the 85, so every player gets a full ride. In baseball, universities can assign lottery scholarships, need based, diversity type financial aid, other academic scholarship, waiving out of state tuition, etc. The key is to get more players on scholarship and less out of pocket payments from players on scholarship."

"But Morrison did get good grades, enabling him to access academic scholarships. And his South Carolina residency provided a tuition discount. When Coach Gilmore offered him a partial scholarship before his senior year, Morrison turned it down. It made more sense to help an out-of-state teammate."
www.omaha.com

With scholarship limit, college baseball careers come with a cost

Major-conference athletic departments, flush with cash from football TV deals, are spending on luxurious facilities, coaching salaries and new support staff. But little (if any) has trickled down to the
www.omaha.com www.omaha.com
 
canesproponent said:
As usual the Gnome is wrong. Academic scholarships do not count against the 11.7. Moreover, not a single Vanderbilt player has incurred any debt or paid any tuition since Vanderbilt funded Operation Vanderbilt. HUGE advantage.

"Division I institutions provide the most athletic scholarships. Baseball programs are allowed a total of 11.7 full scholarships they may use for their players. But not all programs have all 11.7 scholarships available. Individual scholarships may be offered in any percentage of the coaching staff's choosing, and the 11.7 total scholarships may be split among up to 27 players per team. Scholarships to Division I institutions may include athletic and financial aid, but in SOME cases additional financial aid may count toward the total 11.7 scholarships for the program. Academic scholarships can offset athletic scholarships or financial aid and they do not count against the 11.7 scholarships available. The institutions that compete in the Ivy League and Patriot League conferences do not offer athletic scholarship aid."

"Every team in the SEC is allowed to have 11.7 scholarships. However, if a team is located in a state with a lottery education fund, then they can give lottery funded scholarships to players, and those lottery funded scholarships do not count against the 11.7. As a result, teams that are located in states with a lottery fund can have more scholarship players on their roster than teams in states without the lottery. "

"Vanderbilt runs a program started years ago called Operation Vanderbilt. It is an endowment that supplements or fully replaces federal financial aid or grants. It is open to all students but sports, not including football and basketball, have been able to take advantage of it over the years. With this program, Vanderbilt has not had a single baseball player over the last two seasons have to pay a single cent in tuition."

"While there are only 11.7 athletic scholarships for baseball (and a 35 man roster), baseball players can be on any type of additional financial aid without penalty. In football, schools cannot do that because every player on financial aid counts toward the 85, so every player gets a full ride. In baseball, universities can assign lottery scholarships, need based, diversity type financial aid, other academic scholarship, waiving out of state tuition, etc. The key is to get more players on scholarship and less out of pocket payments from players on scholarship."

"But Morrison did get good grades, enabling him to access academic scholarships. And his South Carolina residency provided a tuition discount. When Coach Gilmore offered him a partial scholarship before his senior year, Morrison turned it down. It made more sense to help an out-of-state teammate."
www.omaha.com

With scholarship limit, college baseball careers come with a cost

Major-conference athletic departments, flush with cash from football TV deals, are spending on luxurious facilities, coaching salaries and new support staff. But little (if any) has trickled down to the
www.omaha.com www.omaha.com
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No one ever said that academic scholarships count against the 11.7. What you’re trying to do is set aside academic money specifically for baseball players. Academic money has always been available to UM baseball players. The fact that you didn’t already know that is a major issue.

The problem here is that you don’t understand the subject well enough to have a conversation about it.
 
You actually bolded stuff that the rest of us knew years ago. That’s why you’re so confused about everything. You had to look that stuff up.
 
From the modern history of Missouri State athletics to college hockey to financial aid, this thread really has it all.
 
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Dude really thinks that UM baseball players haven’t already had access to financial aid and academic scholarships.
 
Gnome says that "everything counts against the 11.7 scholarships". I refute him and show that financial aid, academic, diversity and lottery funds do not and he backtracks.

Most important part of my post "no Vanderbilt baseball player has paid tuition since they instituted Operation Vanderbilt." HUGE advantage! The majority of UM players pay tuition........
 
scane said:
From the modern history of Missouri State athletics to college hockey to financial aid, this thread really has it all.
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Just to update the puck heads, BC lost to Providence on OT. St. Cloud beat Miami Ohio 5-2. That may send some over the edge but I could not resist. This thread has been interesting to say the least. At times insightful and of course combative.
 
canesproponent said:
Gnome says that "everything counts against the 11.7 scholarships". I refute him and show that financial aid, academic, diversity and lottery funds do not and he backtracks.

Most important part of my post "no Vanderbilt baseball player has paid tuition since they instituted Operation Vanderbilt." HUGE advantage! The majority of UM players pay tuition........
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1000% lie. I have never once said that “everything counts against the 11.7”. The rest of us already knew about financial aid and academic money. You are 20 years late.
 
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Just want to show how the gnome is either a lair or just plain dumb.

Here is the direct quote: "The NCAA can and will step in as soon as it is obvious that the “merit-based scholarship” is really just an additional scholarship meant to get around the 11.7 limit." That is a direct quote from the gnome. Verbatim. My post above refutes that.

If that is the case, how does Vanderbilt circumvent it? Simple. Both Rice and Vanderbilt have such massive endowments and grant such colossal financial aid that no one on the baseball team pays tuition. That is the huge advantage that they both have over UM. Moreover, all UF, FSU and Georgia baseball players that had a B average or better in their respective states are entitled to free tuition as well due to the lottery fund, and it does not count against the 11.7.

UM is at a huge disadvantage and it now has its 3rd top 15 team in 5 years. It also went to Omaha 2 out of the past 4 years.
 
Genius, those endowment funds are available to ALL students. Your brilliant idea was to have special scholarships just for baseball players. That is 100% illegal.
 
canesproponent said:
Just want to show how the gnome is either a lair or just plain dumb.

Here is the direct quote: "The NCAA can and will step in as soon as it is obvious that the “merit-based scholarship” is really just an additional scholarship meant to get around the 11.7 limit." That is a direct quote from the gnome. Verbatim. My post above refutes that.

If that is the case, how does Vanderbilt circumvent it? Simple. Both Rice and Vanderbilt have such massive endowments and grant such colossal financial aid that no one on the baseball team pays tuition. That is the huge advantage that they both have over UM. Moreover, all UF, FSU and Georgia baseball players that had a B average or better in their respective states are entitled to free tuition as well due to the lottery fund, and it does not count against the 11.7.

UM is at a huge disadvantage and it now has its 3rd top 15 team in 5 years. It also went to Omaha 2 out of the past 4 years.
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Good lord. Students in Florida do not receive free tuition just for having a B average. Could you humor us with just a little bit of research before you post?
 
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Canedude08 said:
I guess that you didn't bother to notice that TCU, outside of that 4 year span has been relatively mediocre, especially by this fanbase's standards. This fanbase throws hissy fits when the team merely makes the tournament and isn't a top end seed. It's amazing how the standard conveniently changes when other programs are mentioned. No one said that it's impossible for a private school to hit on a great group of guys that happen to stick around, and win a ton, because that's exactly what TCU did. They hit on a core group of guys, and cashed in multiple times. Now notice that their trips to Omaha stopped when that core group started leaving. The problem is that it's infinitely tougher for a private school to keep RELOADING, due to the fact that your talent pool is significantly smaller. Even if you are a top end talent evaluator, and beat the bushes for talent(Which Schlossnagle does), you are a couple of busts away from disaster.

By the way, outside of the previous two seasons, Miami was making the postseason on a regular basis too. No one gave a crap, and people wanted Morris gone(and rightfully so). Making the postseason is nothing if you aren't doing anything while you are there. You aren't seeing private schools do much in the postseason for the most part. Remember the following

Rice: Hasn't made the CWS since 2008
Southern Cal: Hasn't made the CWS since 2001
Tulane: Hasn't made the CWS since 2005
Stanford: Hasn't made the CWS since 2008

Lots of tradition at Rice, Southern Cal and Stanford and none of them have been to Omaha since the latter stages of the Bush administration.
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Again, while it is great to be an ultimate results guy, it is a pretty weak argument when you don't even make a NCAA tourney regional.

What UM's standards have been since I attended and quite a while before have not been exactly measured up to in recent years. From THAT standpoint....there are a few years I would have been JUST FINE with TCU's super regional or sadly even regional appearances.
Had we made those appearances, then we at least had a shot.

Again, like Vandy, you are cherry picking needed results from TCU or anyone else and claiming "see, they arent that good"....when sadly, both have been pretty **** steady, if not stellar in recent years.

Next, if I say...let's compare Miami baseball to Vandy or TCU over the last 32 years...you would be doing strong. Unfortunately, that isn't the point right here, right now...hopefully it will be again, very soon.

UM
 
Fightinibis said:
Again, while it is great to be an ultimate results guy, it is a pretty weak argument when you don't even make a NCAA tourney regional.
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TCU didn't make it last year and you just said they they've been stellar. In fact they missed it in 2013, too. So twice in 6 seasons yet they're stellar.
 
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Fightinibis said:
What UM's standards have been since I attended and quite a while before have not been exactly measured up to in recent years.
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I know that most of you "never changers" don't want to admit this but the game is simply more competitive today than it's ever been. The bats have been altered a couple of times (2000, 2011) and the uniform start date was implemented (2008). All done to level the playing field and it's mostly worked.

Name one of the powerhouses from that era that is having as much success today as they did then.

Good luck.
 
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Peter Gibbons said:
TCU didn't make it last year and you just said they they've been stellar. In fact they missed it in 2013, too. So twice in 6 seasons yet they're stellar.
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Way to cherry pick what might make your argument.

TCU missed last year and 2013, correct. MADE IT every year since 2004 besides those two. So, sorry...nice try, but more like twice in 15 years. Not too shabby for a squad that didn't do much of anything before 2004. Love how you skipped over 4 CONSECUTIVE CWS appearances from 2014-2017 as well.

UM
 
Peter Gibbons said:
I know that most of you "never changers" don't want to admit this but the game is simply more competitive today than it's ever been. The bats have been altered a couple of times (2000, 2011) and the uniform start date was implemented (2008). All done to level the playing field and it's mostly worked.

Name one of the powerhouses from that era that is having as much success today as they did then.

Good luck.
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Never changers....lmfao. Well I guess at least we were there to experience it.

I was never arguing "it is the same" or some bull**** like that....it clearly isn't it...and the stupid and arbitrary scholarship rule in baseball can only hurt private schools.

You guys shouldn't go nuts when someone points out recent strong contenders like Vandy or TCU. It only addresses the reality that being a private school doesn't AUTOMATICALLY mean you can't compete. That was my only point. To then act like Vandy and TCU suck because they aren't what Miami used to be?!?!...kind of like defeating your own argument against "never changers"..lol
 
Fightinibis said:
Again, like Vandy, you are cherry picking needed results from TCU or anyone else and claiming "see, they arent that good"....when sadly, both have been pretty **** steady, if not stellar in recent years.
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TCU has missed the tournament twice since 2013. Your ignorance is comical.

Since Tim Corbin arrived at Vanderbilt (2003):

NCAA Tournament Appearances
Miami: 14
Vandy: 14

Super Regional Appearances
Miami: 8
Vandy: 8

College World Series Appearances
Miami: 6
Vandy: 3

Since Jim Schlossnagle arrived at TCU (2004):

NCAA Tournament Appearances
Miami: 13
TCU: 13

Super Regional Appearances
Miami: 7
TCU: 7

College World Series Appearances
Miami: 5
TCU: 5
 
Fightinibis said:
Next, if I say...let's compare Miami baseball to Vandy or TCU over the last 32 years...you would be doing strong. Unfortunately, that isn't the point right here, right now...hopefully it will be again, very soon.
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I just did it with half that time period.

How'd it look?
 
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