Gattis production at Michigan

[hoops156]

Agreed, but there’s a huge difference between plays and drives. We are running a system of short plays and sustained drives, so our numbers SHOULD be on par with last year.

My point is this system, with limited downfield passing, in effect limits the number of drives we will have, which means low scoring games. Also, you can throw out the first two games, as they were against the Women’s School for Kids Who Read Good.

again, I think people think were calling for air raid or saying we wont ever pass. we passed more than enough (some of it bc we had to in the second half down 2 scores for nearly all of it). its about what were doing on pass plays thats my problem. its not all on the OC. some of the blame is on the WRs and QB, but at that point the position coaches need to get w their group and work on blocking/catching/route running. the separation issue is something well have to scheme open and also get quicker hits out there for both the Qb and WR.

on top of that, why does this group of 4 star kids look so downright putrid in one offseason? gattis is the WR coach. his position group is the worst coached group out there right now. between the **** blocking, the dropped balls, and poor route running, the **** is he doing with them outside of saying we only have 6 guys. ******* coach them up. its your group. if you can't do double duty, then tell Mario, take a paycut, allow Mario to hire someone else to handle WRs.

 

[futurecane]

again, I think people think were calling for air raid or saying we wont ever pass. we passed more than enough (some of it bc we had to in the second half down 2 scores for nearly all of it). its about what were doing on pass plays thats my problem. its not all on the OC. some of the blame is on the WRs and QB, but at that point the position coaches need to get w their group and work on blocking/catching/route running. the separation issue is something well have to scheme open and also get quicker hits out there for both the Qb and WR.

Exactly. I’m not upset about the number of plays we ran, I’m upset about the types of plays, the aggression, the tempo, and the general caution that was displayed.

We dinked and dunked on high percentage, low points probability plays throughout the game. That will get you a nice TOP and stats sheet, but doesn’t score points or create opportunities. You have to try to score every now and then…

 

[CaneAlum11]

Oh look, CIS is cherry picking data to fit this week’s narrative.

 

[westcoastcanes]

If those numbers have been there for anyone to see, why are people having such a reaction to them today? If the dude is so bad based on 2019, why did anyone think we would win Saturday night?

People who aren’t homers, like Vegas and the pundits didn’t think we would win Saturday night.

 

[hoops156]

Oh look, CIS is cherry picking data to fit this week’s narrative.

this week? I had the same complaint last week. nothing we did Saturday night proved me wrong

 

[Cribby]

After three games we're currently averaging the exact same amount of plays we did last year. We're throwing the ball the same amount of times as we did last year.

The down side to an offense like Lashlee's was if it wasn't rolling early you could get run out of the stadium in the 1st quarter.

I completely understand the criticism about not throwing the ball down field. I think the red zone offense was absolute garbage. But there are a lot of people throwing around a lot of statements that aren't backed by any facts whatsoever.

This offense that Gattis has should be tweaked and I hope he does it. But there was a lot to like offensively. If he and Tyler can get on the same page and he can adjust his play calling I do think this can work really **** good.

But nothing is going to get completely fixed until we get players on the field who can make plays.

Alabama, Michigan State and App State

VS

Bethune , Southern Miss and A&M


Seems like a fair comparison.

 

[hoops156]

People who aren’t homers, like Vegas and the pundits didn’t think we would win Saturday night.

tbF, if atm had looked like a good team entering that game, no one thought we had a shot. the fact is that atm has looked like a 4-5 loss team all year and they did on Saturday night as well. it was Clemson or Bama where you could tell they're on a diff level. us and atm looked like 4-5 loss teams battling it out.

 

[hoops156]

Alabama, Michigan State and App State

VS

Bethune , Southern Miss and A&M


Seems like a fair comparison.

tbh, were prolly 1-2 with last years schedule based on how we look right now which is what we were last year. that stings to say that

 

[miamicanephins]

I think Cristobal defaulted to it because he was striking out with other OCs. When all else fails, go back to what you know. Candle's spread O is nothing like Gattis's (basically same O that Moorhead ran at Oregon) .

Report: Jason Candle turns down Miami coordinator role, will remain at Toledo

Candle was Mario Cristobal's leading target to run his offense at Miami, FootballScoop first reported on Monday.

footballscoop.com

If true, this dispels the CIS narrative that Mario doesn't want to run an uptempo offense and that is encouraging.

What's discouraging is Mario couldn't land an uptempo guy, even after offering more money. If Gattis can't change the offense, I believe Mario lets him go.

 

[hoops156]

If true, this dispels the CIS narrative that Mario doesn't want to run an uptempo offense and that is encouraging.

What's discouraging is Mario couldn't land an uptempo guy, even after offering more money. If Gattis can't change the offense, I believe Mario lets him go.

I know Mario has a rep of running a conservative offense but I can't imagine that man not wanting to win at all costs. I dont believe hes gonna be stubborn in his dream job.

 

[kryptonite]

I disagree, kryptonite, mainly because of what those errors in execution were.

Yes, the TS muff and the drop by HP hurt us, but in general the miscues and drops were on poorly designed plays.

This has overtones of the Brock Berlin era, where Chud ignored the fact that BB was a shotgun gunslinger who couldn’t take a drop to save his life. They kept ramming a square peg and wondering why it wouldn’t fit… that’s our problem with TVD right now, and in general with our team. This “bro style” offense is great at places with overwhelming talent, but quite frankly any offense would be successful there…

I respect that. I think it's an issue most coaches have, trying to get something out of players whether they have the ability or not. We've seen it before, and if we're seeing it now I hope it won't last. I'm hoping he can either his playcalling or better teach his players so that they can get on the same page.I see that Gattis could do better as an OC, I just think the biggest thing is he's got to find a way to get his guys to do what he's asking.

 

[kryptonite]

That will be Mario's undoing if he doesn't change his philosophy. When the likes of Saban and others change for the best of the program...it irks me that others don't follow suit.

Yeah, it's a concern for sure. Mario may suffer from the same kind of ego that most coaches have, but I'm hopeful that, like saban, he'll find he loves winning more than he hates changing. I just don't think it's near the top of our issues right now, and I don't think a different scheme will make our guys catch the ball.

 

[hoops156]

I respect that. I think it's an issue most coaches have, trying to get something out of players whether they have the ability or not. We've seen it before, and if we're seeing it now I hope it won't last. I'm hoping he can either his playcalling or better teach his players so that they can get on the same page.I see that Gattis could do better as an OC, I just think the biggest thing is he's got to find a way to get his guys to do what he's asking.

on the flip side, these kids were recruited for a certain system. maybe its playing to their strengths that most important? **** what you want to run, maybe fit your scheme to them. coaches jobs are to hide weaknesses and play to their players strengths. we aren't doing that

 

[hoops156]

Yeah, it's a concern for sure. Mario may suffer from the same kind of ego that most coaches have, but I'm hopeful that, like saban, he'll find he loves winning more than he hates changing. I just don't think it's near the top of our issues right now, and I don't think a different scheme will make our guys catch the ball.

I dont think Mario is stubborn in that aspect

 

[SWFLHurricane]

Yeah, it's a concern for sure. Mario may suffer from the same kind of ego that most coaches have, but I'm hopeful that, like saban, he'll find he loves winning more than he hates changing. I just don't think it's near the top of our issues right now, and I don't think a different scheme will make our guys catch the ball.

You'd think he'd know that by now. He saw Butch fire Miller...because Butch didn't like where the defense was headed. And he saw Saban change his offensive philosophy as well, for the betterment of the program.

 

[kryptonite]

on the flip side, these kids were recruited for a certain system. maybe its playing to their strengths that most important? **** what you want to run, maybe fit your scheme to them. coaches jobs are to hide weaknesses and play to their players strengths. we aren't doing that.

Agreed. This has been the problem with several of our coaches in the past, and I'm hoping it can change. I think this is a tough year, the coaches can't run Lashlee's system or they won't make any progress installing their own. I don't know how this works; how to balance installing your system while still calling plays your players can execute, but I'm hoping Gattis can do better. Coaches used to get a couple of years for these transitions, but not anymore. Fans, the administration, and recruits are all watching, and they all expect success now.

 

[Cribby]

again, I think people think were calling for air raid or saying we wont ever pass. we passed more than enough (some of it bc we had to in the second half down 2 scores for nearly all of it). its about what were doing on pass plays thats my problem. its not all on the OC. some of the blame is on the WRs and QB, but at that point the position coaches need to get w their group and work on blocking/catching/route running. the separation issue is something well have to scheme open and also get quicker hits out there for both the Qb and WR.

on top of that, why does this group of 4 star kids look so downright putrid in one offseason? gattis is the WR coach. his position group is the worst coached group out there right now. between the **** blocking, the dropped balls, and poor route running, the **** is he doing with them outside of saying we only have 6 guys. ******* coach them up. its your group. if you can't do double duty, then tell Mario, take a paycut, allow Mario to hire someone else to handle WRs.

The first couple sentences says it all. What happens is everyone has thrown the players under the bus and defended the coaches. Some of us have come in and said it’s more than the players, there’s some issues going on here. Issues we were concerned about when the hires were made. We knew the wr group wasn’t a strength but its very clear the OC isn’t helping them , they’ve all regressed minus 7. On top of that he’s their position coach. I know why some of these guys don’t want to accept that but it doesn’t mean it’s not true. Last thing I’ll say on this subject is I’m on record before the season saying I hope he implements some of Lashlees concepts to help the receivers and TVD. @LuCane and myself discussed that very subject.

 

[BoxingRobes]

Man was 35th in the nation and 58th in ypp...and gets them to 14th and 17th respectively and this is a criticism?

I don't even like this guy, but we've got some collective brain melt right now.

 

[kryptonite]

You'd think he'd know that by now. He saw Butch fire Miller...because Butch didn't like where the defense was headed. And he saw Saban change his offensive philosophy as well, for the betterment of the program.

I don't know what to say there. You'd think Richt would have had a better idea of when a change was needed with his experience, but he didn't. And I don't believe it was because he was tired, he just insisted in believing he could do it. Honestly, you have to give things some time or you don't know they will or won't work, the trick is not giving too much time. I'd say it's hard to argue that after 3 games Gattis' time should be up. He may not be the guy, but he'll get at least a year no matter what we want. And I think he deserves that.

 

[hoops156]

Agreed. This has been the problem with several of our coaches in the past, and I'm hoping it can change. I think this is a tough year, the coaches can't run Lashlee's system or they won't make any progress installing their own. I don't know how this works; how to balance installing your system while still calling plays your players can execute, but I'm hoping Gattis can do better. Coaches used to get a couple of years for these transitions, but not anymore. Fans, the administration, and recruits are all watching, and they all expect success now.

when youre paying what we are for this staff, the learning curve is done. coaches all around all have preferred styles, but they seem to get the most out of their group. I think you can do both but it doesn't help to throw it all out there on them right away and hope they pick it up. making them comfortable and confident is key. you can begin to sprinkle your system in there and recruit your own kids that fit what you want to run. eventually you fully transition over.